karism

Hi all.

Yesterday was the big day,i got my Cheeseport started.With alotof smoke and lots of Engine start.

Ran great for about 1 min,sound real punchy and agro like a bridge port should then a bad misfire started on the rear rotor.The next moment there was water streaming out the rear of the exhaust,and dripping of one of the silncers.Then it just got worse,wouldnt idle below 2000 rpm (1500 previously).

Then it died.

Took out the spark plugs,and they were covered with water,water in the oil,water everywhere.

So i just spent my savings from 9 months,and it was wasted in 5 min.

Back to the drawing board..AGAIN

Karis

AdrenalifeRX7

Man talk about bad luck! Don't let that kind of **** get you down, hang in there.

Rotary7s

Well Didnt you check to see if the "bridged" cheeze ports were going to go into the water seals?

I knew this port design was going to be bad.

rotary emotions

Are you guys sure it was leaking because of the port design at all? Maybe there was just a water seal that got installed badly and broke. There's no reason this design should be any more difficult to do then any other port job, in regards to water seals.

karism

Thanks AdrenalifeRx7 and Rotary emotions,at least somebody has some faith in me.

Rotary7s : Pay attention,do you really think i wouldn`t check that before assembling?

I`am not a idiot you know,and yes i have built many bridge and j-bridge port engines,lasting more than a whole season of flat track racing.

Attached pic i used Yaw`s housings,and photoshopped it to illustrate)this is what my Rotorhousings look like.The water passage is epoxied,the seals stop before the passage,and are wound in a circle,then hightemp siliconed to the housing.The housing is cut 0.39 " (10mm) to fasilitate flow to the bridge(cheese) whatever.

Karis

karism

Here is the pic

BRealistic

jpg not work


What is a 'cheeseport'? And is the engine 'ruined' or just needing to be reassembled with new seals?

12abridgeport

I don't know if i'm missing something, but that looks like a peripheral housing in the picture. What does that have to do with cheeseport?

BTW i might want to experiment with cheeseport also, it's way easier to do it than an actual bridge.

I wonder if it sacrifices any low end for more top end?

karism

Worked when i checked it...funny!

Needs to be reassembled with new seals,its not ruined.The seals are just really really expensive!

Check out the thread called "j-bridge" in the First Gen section.
Karis

karism

Yip,thats a Peripheral port housing,it the only pic i had to edit.So i could illustrate how my water seals look.It will be more grumpy than a streetport,thats for sure.

Bottom end will be sacraficed for top end,yes.Mine is much rougher than a single row cheeseport.BUT it will yield more hp!

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately the water sealing method was where the error is but you've already figured this out. I hope the spot over between where you cut the seals was filled with RTV gasket sealer and not just left open. Water can seap through the small gaps between the housings too. You may have done this but since I can't see it I don't know. The unfortunate thing is that by cutting the water seals at all you have reduced the engine life to what any other bridgeport would have. The problems with long term reliability on a bridgeport aren't so much bridge failure but rather water seal integrity failure. When the bigger bridgeports cut into the water seal their life is extremely short before they need to be opened up and resealed. Your 'cheeseport' idea is really creative in maintaining bridge area strength but the biggest concern should be focused on water seal integrity and ensuring that you will never in any way have to cut one to make it work. If there is a way to reassemble the motor without cutting the seal then you've got a good chance of it living for a long time.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I still think the cheeseport idea is a good one.

karism

Please refer to the attached pic.Th part that was epoxied received alot of Silicon sealant ontop of it,as well as the small spot where the seal ends,and the cutout starts.

I basiclly took every precaution thinkable.

In anyway,the engine will be comming out again,next week.

I`am quit tired of removing,and refitting engines at this stage.

Jeff20B:are you going to build one ?
Thanks for the feedback guys!

Karis

fatboy7

This is just my imagination talking, but couldn't you have a groove machined across the metal that seperates the expoxied water jacket and the unaltered water jacket, and instead of completely removing a portion of the water seal, just cut it and route the loose ends into these newly machined seal grooves. This, in addition to the silicone sealant that you added. That I think would add some longgevity to the water seal.

fatboy7

Oh, and one more thing..... with a cheeseport, couldn't you put some of the holes in the area normally reserved for the bridge of a bridgeport? The reason you have to leave a bridge, is so the corner seals don't fall through, right? If the holes of the cheeseport are small enough, you wouldn't have a problem just porting over the whole area. That way you wouldn't have to have the huge overlap, and loss of low end torque that a J-Bridge has.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

That's a good idea to reroute the water seals in that area. They'll need to be clipped for sure, but instead of cutting a section off, just cut in the middle and Y them apart in new grooves. Good idea!

Karis, I'm thinking about it. It would probably be in the area normally reserved for the bridge. I'd also probably 'relieve' the rotor housings or whatever it's called when you notch them so the AF mixture can flow more easily into the engine. Or I'll just do a regular half bridge. It'll go into a GLC so I'll give it some thought. I'm doing this type of car because it's small, should be pretty quick when done, and scary fast! Well, pretty quick with a stock ported 4 port 13B that's going in it first to work out the bugs. That will give me time to build the R5 engine.

BRealistic

I know this was discussed at length in the other thread (J-bridge thread), but I just now looked at the other thread. (call me lazy) That is a crazy looking port job. It seems it would actually help low speed turbulence, and create more torque- BUT this porting causes overlaps which hurts torque.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

The porting above is photoshopped. The other thread has a more accurate looking pic (the one with the red and yellow dots on the tension bolt holes).

Anyway, I'd do cheeseports on the primaries and a bridgeport on the secondaries so I get the cool brapping idle, but still keep a little low end torque. Then when the secondaries open, it'll flow like a half bridgeport normally would.

karism

Brealistic:It does hurt torquee a bit,but i`am quite sure that it will have more torque than a j-bridge,possibly also more than a bridgeport .

Fatboy7 : that would work,i havent though about that yet.Good idea ,the only thing that bothers me is :if you were to do so,then the corner seal could maybe catch on one of the sides of the holes,and cause havoc.It doesnt seem possible for the corner to catch,but remember the stress factors go WAY up as you go past 8000 rpm.

Great idea on the water seals guys! Anybody care to illustrate this,so i understand a bit more.

Jeff20B.Your a busy body with the Rotaries!Good to hear that!
Cheese+half bridge sound interesting,wonder what the results would be!

Ultimate flow was the main objective,when the Rotorhousings were machined in the water seal area.

Hopefully it will last long with carefull assembly,and persistance.

I`am having th engine opened and reassembled by a engine builder here,as soon as its out again.He is the best my country has to offer.

(He built a engine that is famous in S.A,it developes max hp at 13000 rpm, 12A monsterport. 280 Flywheel HP.)

Rotor13B

karism

Ok interesting reply...what did you mean ?

Zeta-Gouki

He's impressed...

karism

hehe,ok.I`am not so clued up with the little icons.

You should hear it rev...hehe.I`d pay $50 a shot to hear it!

BRealistic

Could you post it. That was the only pic I could find on the other thread.

karism

Here is the pic Jeff20B was referring