Decided to do a test for fitment today on a spare engnie I have in the garage to see what my setup will look like. Though I'd share a couple of pictures. I call it a Flat Top 12a. Now all I have to do is get that oil fill tube to be shorter!

Enjoy.

 

Here is another angle:

 

wow dual processors

jk

 

Nice set up, looks like a tuning nightmare good luck on that. I was thinking of putting the alt over there too. Do the pullies still line up?

 

thats an interesting set up. is the motor its going on ported. isnt 40 per rotor a bit to big? most use a 45 and that covers both.

 

The dizzy will be the tallest thing on your engine unless you delete trailing and run direct fire on leading only (it'll run with no dizzy cap). Oh, and you can run a remote oil filter too.

 

How you like the setup? Good luck

 

nice! good luck finding or making a throttle cable and controlling fuel for optimum performance

 

that's certainly an un-pretty motor you've mounted it on

 

Those DCOE 40's? What chokes are in them? Trying to lear more about the competitions carbs.

 

Lets see if I can answer everyones questions.

1. The alt just barely misses lining up over there. Nothing a little bit of grinding and patience won't fix I've seen it mounted over there before on the Camel Light engines from back in the '80s because they mounted the FI pump up top instead.
It will definitely be a tuning nightmare. As far as getting equal amounts of air in there, that part should be easy as another local (1.5hr away) has a unisyn he'll let me borrow and he has dual DCD's on his 13b 4-port. Getting equal amounts of fuel will be the tricky part. Someone has suggested using an extra header and put either an EGT probe in each or an O2 sensor in each.

2. Yup, it is a bit on the big side for a stock port engine. It can be done but expect driveability issues on the low end.

3. None of the motors I have are ported....yet. I figure I will most likely jump straight to a bridgeport to take full advantage of this setup. Of course this means I'll probably not have it installed and tuned until somewhere closer to the end of the year or this time next year.

4. I just put direct fire on the leading two weekends ago (forgot to post pictures of that, maybe later). I used the FC leading coil pack. Runs smoother and actually is more quiet too if one can believe that. I moved the trailing wires over to the leading position on the dizzy. I'd like to keep the dizzy for a bit, maybe I can get lucky and find one of the short dizzies in a scrap yard around here. Someone on the forum is working on getting the CAS and whole direct fire working from the FC series, hopefully they haven't given up as I'd like to switch to that. I will run the remote oil filter not only to reduce the top of engine stuff but also to run the filter upside down for less mess when removed

5. Gonzz, I love the setup, how it looks and the potential it has too!! Thanks again for selling it to me. I've already found two major dealers of Mikuni PHH parts, one on the west coast and one on the east coast. As soon as I pick up the Mikuni PHH carb manual I'll start ordering the stuff I need to rebuild and tune them.

6. The throttle cable assembly on these carbs uses a throttle cable from some of the VW's. I've already confirmed it with a big VW freak up in St. Louis and he'll get me what I need. Otherwise it's just making a bracket after that which is no big deal compared to everything else I have to do.

7. That motor is the prettiest I've got in the garage and car for that matter All the rest of them have the oil dowel leak and are coated along one side or the other with oil. This engine in the picture is clean except for where I spilt some MMO while I was dumping some in the spark plug holes for storage purposes.

8. Carl, they're Mikuni PHH 40's on the TWM sidedraft intake. If they're still stock (Gonzz?) they have the 32 venturi in them. PHH 44's will flow around 211cfm per barrel in stock setup and I think their stock venturi is a 34 if that helps any. I'm no ME and I cannot figure cfm on carbs to save my life

 

Wow, Alien; radical setup! After looking at the pictures I remember these Mukuni's; a copy of the Weber/Dellorto sidedrafts, used on the old 240Z cars. Good carbs.

Still wonder how you get good low end out of these; good metering helps probably. Top end NOT a problem......!

BTW; TWM seems to be selling only injection stuff these days, at least according to their site. Big surprise, I guess.

Rotor On.

Sanspistons for cleaner, brighter teeth.

 

Yup, also seen on other Datsuns, VWs and BMWs. Oh, and a dual 44 PHH setup on a rally prep'd Plymouth FireArrow (one of my housemate's a couple of years ago).

Not sure about the low-end torque, but I'll find out once I start tuning. I know in the FI world, the shorter the run on the air intake to the TB the lower the peak torque is on the RPM scale. I'm not sure that that carb world is different or not but with such a short, straight run right into the rotors, should be a blast

Yup, in fact if one digs deep enough they'll find that TWM sold off their intake business to a different company. I did finally dig up a catalog page with the intake on it plus the intake they made for the 13b but it was through a link of a link of a link from a different web site all together. Couldn't find any links directly to it on TWM and I'm thinking I'm lucky in finding it still on their server! Supposedly, TWM has some TB setups that bolt right to the intake so I could conceivably (sp?) do a FI mod if I had cash to spend...which I don't, who does?

 

Isn't that backwards? I thought shorter runners were for higher torque peak. The pressure waves have less distance to travel therefor the positive pressure wave returns earlier, at a higher rpm the positive pressure wave opens at just the right time with a short enough runner. Something like that at least.

 

how much money do you have into this setup so far?

 

Close to $500. Minimum amount by time I finish the whole project, and projects are never finished, will probably see that climb to somewhere between $2000-$3000 and that is a low figure.

That would be for buying all of the stuff needed to tune the carbs, extra carb bits like jets and whatnot, rebuild kits for the carbs, misc. hardware, RB road race exhaust kit, additional header for tuning, bridgeporting the motor, installing lighter flywheel and better clutch. And that is just for the the engine/carb setup. Still will have to spend more money on suspension, brakes, painting, wheels, tires, interioir, etc. etc. etc. Like I said, projects are never finished

 

Dual DCOEs... *drool*

As a side note, there is a commonly-available dual 40DCOE setup. Costs a hairy chunk, too. ($1100ish) BUT... it allegedly can make more power than a single 48IDA (more cross sectional area available) while being very driveable like stock (better low-speed vacuum signal due to the smaller venturis). Sounds contradictory, but airflow doesn't scale linearly, so I could believe it.

And SOME people (ahem) use dual 45DCOE's. Of course, you'd probably have to buy those new since 40DCOEs were commonly used in the 60's while 45's weren't...

I've driven single-45DCOE setups. They didn't feel any different than stock, truth be told.

 

Notice I said which has nothing to do with the runner that is past the TB.

I do believe that you are correct in what you say mwatson. That is one of the reasons why ITB setups are popular(?) on all-motor class cars.

Oh, and peejay, the 44phh, 45dcoe, and even the 50phh and 51dcoe(?) will fit the TWM intake.

The local guy I know with a street ported, 4-port 13b has dual dcd's and it is very streetable.

 

Hey bro how have you been doing anyway. Nice to see yourself working out, I'm getting there myself, just added RB race port header and soon attempting direct fire/ electronic dizzy upgrade that you kindly sold me. Like you hear from you sometime! Later
Jamy

 

Yah I know they'll fit. But 40's are damn near common in comparison to the other sizes, as far as finding them used is concerned. LOTS of 1600cc cars from the 60's used 'em.

BTW the BIG DCOE is the 50DCO, no "E". Also no choke. I think there might even be a 55DCO but I am not sure...

 

That setup looks awesome, be sure to post pics again when its all together in your car. Are you going to make a heat shield so they aren't sucking in all the hot air by the headers? And does TWM still sell the dual carb manifolds? As said before it looks like they've completely gone to EFI set-ups and I can't find it.

I'd love to see someone put some 4-throttle Keihin FCR flatslide carbs on a 12A or 13B, they're made for motorcycles but I've seen anything from Datsun A15s, to Toyota 4AGs, to Honda B16-18s running them. I bet you could modify the TWM manifold to fit the 41mm's. From what I've heard they're the ultimate carbs as far as airflow (no butterflys), response, and resistance to hard cornering. Just throwing that out there.

 

TWM no longer makes the carb manifolds, they sold that part of their business off to someone else. It is on their website somewhere of who they sold it to but when I go to that place they do not have any information on the intakes either.

Heat shield is a definite YES. Not only to protect the carbs from boiling/drawing in hot air but also to protect the steering bushings there on the frame.