Can you install a FC aluminum water pump housing on a FB??
08-24-10, 09:08 AM
#1
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Can you install a FC aluminum water pump housing on a FB??
Like the title says, I am trying to reduce weight on my autocross car. Can I install an aluminum water pump housing?
What year?
Any mods to anything?
Does the pulley still line up??
What year?
Any mods to anything?
Does the pulley still line up??
08-24-10, 10:14 AM
#2
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yes. its not a direct bolt in, but its very simple.
you want the 86-88 non turbo housing, as it uses the same 2 bolt thermostat housing pattern as the 1st gen, so you can just reuse the upper hose and thermostat cover.
the only real difference is that on the FC the alternator bracket bolt goes all the way thru and bolts to the engine, on the pre FC's its threaded into the water pump housing. the solution is to helicoil the FC housing, so it uses the FB bolt, and then add sealant to the other side so it doesnt leak.
the FC housing also has a hose barb for its cooling system on the back of the housing, i pulled it out and tapped it and used it for my gauge sender. you could put a bolt/plug too.
the air pump attachment is different, so it gets funky if you need emissions
you want the 86-88 non turbo housing, as it uses the same 2 bolt thermostat housing pattern as the 1st gen, so you can just reuse the upper hose and thermostat cover.
the only real difference is that on the FC the alternator bracket bolt goes all the way thru and bolts to the engine, on the pre FC's its threaded into the water pump housing. the solution is to helicoil the FC housing, so it uses the FB bolt, and then add sealant to the other side so it doesnt leak.
the FC housing also has a hose barb for its cooling system on the back of the housing, i pulled it out and tapped it and used it for my gauge sender. you could put a bolt/plug too.
the air pump attachment is different, so it gets funky if you need emissions
08-24-10, 12:48 PM
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yes. its not a direct bolt in, but its very simple.
you want the 86-88 non turbo housing, as it uses the same 2 bolt thermostat housing pattern as the 1st gen, so you can just reuse the upper hose and thermostat cover.
the only real difference is that on the FC the alternator bracket bolt goes all the way thru and bolts to the engine, on the pre FC's its threaded into the water pump housing. the solution is to helicoil the FC housing, so it uses the FB bolt, and then add sealant to the other side so it doesnt leak.
the FC housing also has a hose barb for its cooling system on the back of the housing, i pulled it out and tapped it and used it for my gauge sender. you could put a bolt/plug too.
the air pump attachment is different, so it gets funky if you need emissions
you want the 86-88 non turbo housing, as it uses the same 2 bolt thermostat housing pattern as the 1st gen, so you can just reuse the upper hose and thermostat cover.
the only real difference is that on the FC the alternator bracket bolt goes all the way thru and bolts to the engine, on the pre FC's its threaded into the water pump housing. the solution is to helicoil the FC housing, so it uses the FB bolt, and then add sealant to the other side so it doesnt leak.
the FC housing also has a hose barb for its cooling system on the back of the housing, i pulled it out and tapped it and used it for my gauge sender. you could put a bolt/plug too.
the air pump attachment is different, so it gets funky if you need emissions
How much less weight is the aluminum housing??
Is the FB and FC pump the same?
08-24-10, 12:58 PM
#4
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the FC housing bare feels like less than a pound? its way lighter than the FB one
you need to run an FC water pump, and pulley. belts line up just fine.
i'm running an FC water pump on peepers.
you need to run an FC water pump, and pulley. belts line up just fine.
i'm running an FC water pump on peepers.
08-24-10, 01:46 PM
#6
^ I'd like to know as well. I remove that thermo switch for the choke, and then use the leftover hole to put my 3/8 NPT brass thermostat for my electric fan in. I'd like to use the FC pump housing, but if it doesn't have that hole for my fan thermostat then I can't.
Can you put up some pictures for us?
Can you put up some pictures for us?
08-24-10, 01:55 PM
#7
I've installed several of these on '85 and older engines. I find it's easier to cut 10mm x 1.5 threads in the alt braket hole and find yourself an appropriate bolt. Goop the back side of the hole with RTV so you don't get a slow leak out the front. Same shims and gasket to front plate as before. Same thermostat (1st gen is yellow brass rated for 82C or 180F, which I find works nice). You'll need an FC waterpump pulley and clutch fan because the bolt pattern is larger with 8 holes. Or a good electric fan. 
An FC waterpump is required with a Camden because the idler pulley fixture bolts to the three threaded holes on the front where the air pump bracket used to be.
The choke switch of a 1st gen iron waterpump is too large to fit the FC waterpump. It's like 16mm vs 12mm or somethng like that. Most rotorheads who upgrade to the FC waterpump are probably not too concerned about a functioning choke holder anyway.
An FC waterpump is required with a Camden because the idler pulley fixture bolts to the three threaded holes on the front where the air pump bracket used to be.
The choke switch of a 1st gen iron waterpump is too large to fit the FC waterpump. It's like 16mm vs 12mm or somethng like that. Most rotorheads who upgrade to the FC waterpump are probably not too concerned about a functioning choke holder anyway.
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08-24-10, 02:04 PM
#8
No pics, glazedham, but I can describe how I did the aftermarket temp sender in my FC waterpump. I used the smaller 1/4" NPT fitting (most gauges come with three sizes; I used the smallest). It was pretty easy to cut threads in the aluminum housing, even with my getting to be dull 1/4" NPT tap. Can't recall whether I had to drill it to 7/16" first. The process was that quick that I can't remember.
As for a fan switch, uh hmm. I once cracked an FC housing when I decided to cut threads to 3/8" NPT without properly drilling it first. OR maybe it cracked as I was tightenting the 3/8" fitting. Either way the casting starts to get thin the bigger you go.
If you have full access to the housing (removed from engine, with no impeller) and a really sharp tap, and a secure work area (bolted to a workmate style workbench) and you are patient, you will have success adding a 3/8" NPT fitting to an FC waterpump housing. I was rushed when I did mine so I grabbed another and it turned out fine.
As for a fan switch, uh hmm. I once cracked an FC housing when I decided to cut threads to 3/8" NPT without properly drilling it first. OR maybe it cracked as I was tightenting the 3/8" fitting. Either way the casting starts to get thin the bigger you go.
If you have full access to the housing (removed from engine, with no impeller) and a really sharp tap, and a secure work area (bolted to a workmate style workbench) and you are patient, you will have success adding a 3/8" NPT fitting to an FC waterpump housing. I was rushed when I did mine so I grabbed another and it turned out fine.
08-24-10, 02:09 PM
#9
Jeff,
If I wanted to thread the temp sensor for my electric fan in somewhere else do you have any suggestions? The choke hole on the back of the 12A water pump housing works great, but I'm really wanting to switch to the lighter FC aluminum water pump housing. Is there anyplace else that I could put in a 3/8 NPT brass fitting for my electric fan?
I use the Painless electric fan kit from Summit racing and it works the best of any fan control I've ever used. I'd like to keep it if at all possible.
Jamie
If I wanted to thread the temp sensor for my electric fan in somewhere else do you have any suggestions? The choke hole on the back of the 12A water pump housing works great, but I'm really wanting to switch to the lighter FC aluminum water pump housing. Is there anyplace else that I could put in a 3/8 NPT brass fitting for my electric fan?
I use the Painless electric fan kit from Summit racing and it works the best of any fan control I've ever used. I'd like to keep it if at all possible.
Jamie
08-24-10, 02:13 PM
#10
Wow Jeff, you answered before I asked. You're good! 
So as long as I'm careful, work off the car, use sharp drill bits, a new tap, and lots of cutting oil, I'll be okay? I just don't want the thing to be paper thin when I'm done, where I have to be careful with it all the time ya know?
So as long as I'm careful, work off the car, use sharp drill bits, a new tap, and lots of cutting oil, I'll be okay? I just don't want the thing to be paper thin when I'm done, where I have to be careful with it all the time ya know?
08-24-10, 02:58 PM
#12
Waffles - hmmm good
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Wow Jeff, you answered before I asked. You're good! So as long as I'm careful, work off the car, use sharp drill bits, a new tap, and lots of cutting oil, I'll be okay? I just don't want the thing to be paper thin when I'm done, where I have to be careful with it all the time ya know?
So as long as I'm careful, work off the car, use sharp drill bits, a new tap, and lots of cutting oil, I'll be okay? I just don't want the thing to be paper thin when I'm done, where I have to be careful with it all the time ya know?
08-24-10, 03:05 PM
#13
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the s5 water pump isn't cut flat and does not use the shims, however they made a bunch of other little small changes that make it not worth using. they moved the lower hose toward the radiator, it uses its own 3 bolt thermostat neck which is plastic, failure prone and expensive.
the water pump housing is threaded for the EFI's coolant temp sender
08-24-10, 03:42 PM
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you still need the shims, the water pump and front of the engine are both cut flat on the s4's.
the s5 water pump isn't cut flat and does not use the shims, however they made a bunch of other little small changes that make it not worth using. they moved the lower hose toward the radiator, it uses its own 3 bolt thermostat neck which is plastic, failure prone and expensive.
the water pump housing is threaded for the EFI's coolant temp sender
the s5 water pump isn't cut flat and does not use the shims, however they made a bunch of other little small changes that make it not worth using. they moved the lower hose toward the radiator, it uses its own 3 bolt thermostat neck which is plastic, failure prone and expensive.
the water pump housing is threaded for the EFI's coolant temp sender
08-24-10, 03:49 PM
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there are 4 studs on the front of the engine that hold the water pump to the motor.
2 of these studs go thru the wp housing to engine gasket, and 2 dont. you need the shims on the other 2 studs to match the thickness of the gasket, other wise when its tightened up, it'll get pulled crooked and leak.
all of the rotaries have the shims, except the s5's
2 of these studs go thru the wp housing to engine gasket, and 2 dont. you need the shims on the other 2 studs to match the thickness of the gasket, other wise when its tightened up, it'll get pulled crooked and leak.
all of the rotaries have the shims, except the s5's
08-24-10, 07:57 PM
#16
1) Thermostat opens at 180 F, radiator provides cooling to the engine.
2) At 200 F the Taurus electric fan comes on for extra cooling.
3) At 185 F the Taurus fan shuts off, radiator only is sufficient now.
4) At 180 F the Thermostat begins to close back off.
So in this case it doesn't matter which side of the thermostat I put the fan temperature sensor on does it? If I put it on the engine side or the radiator side of the thermostat, it's going to work the same either way. When the fan shuts off at 185 F the thermostat is always going to be open, so the fan sensor doesn't really care which side of the thermostat it is on, right?
08-24-10, 08:23 PM
#17
How about this bad boy? Would this work? I don't know what the inside diameter of the radiator hoses is, but from what I can tell it's pretty close to 1.5".
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-2283/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-2283/
08-24-10, 11:20 PM
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there are 4 studs on the front of the engine that hold the water pump to the motor.
2 of these studs go thru the wp housing to engine gasket, and 2 dont. you need the shims on the other 2 studs to match the thickness of the gasket, other wise when its tightened up, it'll get pulled crooked and leak.
all of the rotaries have the shims, except the s5's
2 of these studs go thru the wp housing to engine gasket, and 2 dont. you need the shims on the other 2 studs to match the thickness of the gasket, other wise when its tightened up, it'll get pulled crooked and leak.
all of the rotaries have the shims, except the s5's
08-24-10, 11:48 PM
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Yeah, I guess you're right. I didn't think about that. I want to double check what I'm doing and tell me if you agree or not.
1) Thermostat opens at 180 F, radiator provides cooling to the engine.
2) At 200 F the Taurus electric fan comes on for extra cooling.
3) At 185 F the Taurus fan shuts off, radiator only is sufficient now.
4) At 180 F the Thermostat begins to close back off.
So in this case it doesn't matter which side of the thermostat I put the fan temperature sensor on does it? If I put it on the engine side or the radiator side of the thermostat, it's going to work the same either way. When the fan shuts off at 185 F the thermostat is always going to be open, so the fan sensor doesn't really care which side of the thermostat it is on, right?
1) Thermostat opens at 180 F, radiator provides cooling to the engine.
2) At 200 F the Taurus electric fan comes on for extra cooling.
3) At 185 F the Taurus fan shuts off, radiator only is sufficient now.
4) At 180 F the Thermostat begins to close back off.
So in this case it doesn't matter which side of the thermostat I put the fan temperature sensor on does it? If I put it on the engine side or the radiator side of the thermostat, it's going to work the same either way. When the fan shuts off at 185 F the thermostat is always going to be open, so the fan sensor doesn't really care which side of the thermostat it is on, right?
08-25-10, 09:36 AM
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hks sells an adaptor too, its less clunky looking that the autometer, you can order it right from the HKS website too
08-25-10, 03:08 PM
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