Also, check out my SE error code write-up in the archive. It is simple to do, just need a test light rig like you are doing for the TPS. It only has a very simplistic checking ability, but would show that the ECU is getting power and if one of the main inputs is bad or disconnected (trailing signal, TPS, AFM, etc.).

 

have you ruled out the FC fuse block wiring? also, did you check for that two wire ground that i had mentioned earlier?

 

Well, the car cranked and ran, roughly, last week. The problem seems to have popped up after removing and reinstalling the UIM twice to fix a fuel leak, then to check the injectors directly. I have checked the FC fuse block wiring, and the 30A fuse that supplies power to the interior lights, ECU, etc is good. The red/white wire that powers the ECU from the main relay is also good.

I'm headed to Radio Shack over lunch to buy what I need for the TPS sensor, addict, so I appreciate the heads-up on the code checker. I'll make the code-checker while I'm at it, print the excerpt from the FSM regarding the codes, and tape it to the checker once I'm all done. I'll check codes and troubleshoot the ECU via the FSM tonight. Thanks guys.

 

Work's been crazy lately, but I hope I'll have the weekend off. I tested the ECU and it threw the O2 sensor code, so it looks like codes 1-3 checked out. I'll ground and connect an O2 sensor to see if the ECU has any other gripes.

Outside of that, I plan to disconnect everything but the injectors, then pinout the ECU. As long as I get impedance across each pair of injector pins, I don't have to take the manifolds off. Is there a list of safeguards that the ECU will check that will prevent firing the injectors? I've been told that they won't fire if the coolant sender isn't made (which sounds retarded, but whatever) but I'm curious if you SE gurus know if there are other reasons that the ECU won't fire injectors.

 

Nope. No reason it wouldn't fire the injectors (unless bad ECU, bad wiring, etc.). An unplugged coolant temp sensor will just cause massive flooding (ECU thinks it is very cold outside). Did you try cranking the car with the test light in? You need to crank the car for at least 1.5s to see if it throws the missing trailing signal code (code 1).

Once you get an O2 sensor connected, then you can see if there is a problem with the TPS or the atmospheric pressure sensor.

I would 1st try to crank the car to see if you get error code #1. Then add the O2 sensor and check for other codes. If that is all okay, then I would check the voltage at the ECU pins (4B-70 of FSM).

 

My coolant sender connectors rotted off years ago, and it's been running fine
(but probably a bit rich). I recently got them hooked back up.

Frank

 

any news on the car Crit?

 

Nope. Been at work since 7:30 after working through a company paid snow day. Will be here on MLK too. Maybe this afternoon, if the sun's up.

 

Well darn it, I'm right back to being confused. It's late, cold, and I can only think of one more test that will exhaust my search for the problem.

Here's where I'm at. I only now appreciate just how important that yellow 4-pin connector is that's ahead of the firewall and goes to the engine harness. It carries two circuits that have both been split in parallel so that one bad connector won't sink you. One pair of wires is a redundant tach signal from the trailing ignitor, while the other pair is the power drawn off the coil that then powers the injectors. I took the blue connector off the trailing coil and have verified that I've got continuity from that 12V source from the coil, through the yellow connector, through each injector, and down to each of the injector pins on the ECU. That circuit is good. I then checked the tach signal itself, and it gets to the ECU as well. The car still runs on ether, so I know that the ignitors are firing as well, because the damn thing gets spark. I'd like to grease up the yellow connector with dialectric grease to maintain the connection, keep the oxidation off, and can wrap that connector with tape to seal it up good. I'm done there and it works, but it's a real deal-breaker if you have a bad connection there.

The only other test I can think to try is to check continuity between ground and the injector pins. Because that circuit is hot when cranking, I'm not sure it's a good idea, but it would be valuable info if it works. I should be able to put the multimeter in beep mode and should hear it beep with every rev as it grounds the injectors. Any idea what happens if you put 12V through the meter when you're checking continuity? I suppose that the alternative (which I favor, now that I think about it) is to slip a wire in the back side of the harness, turn the ignition on, and manually ground each injector. Without the fuel pump check connector in place, the pump won't run, but I can ground each injector through the original wiring and verify that they tick.

This sucks.

 

Did you crank with the test light in place? If so, did you get the lack or trailing signal error code? Wish you were closer. I'd come over and we could get it figured out in no time. It is always easier when you have an extra set of hands/eyes around to catch problems. Good luck.

 

I haven't retried the test light, but I did crank earlier for more than 1.5 seconds and didn't get a bad tach signal. That's also consistent with my testing of the harness. The fuel setup is known to be good - I've traced the supply and return, the pump runs and hisses down the fuel rail with the test connector in place. I'd expect it to stumble if they were reversed or something, but it doesn't flow a single drop of fuel. I'll unplug the ECU tonight, power up the car (trailing coil power to the injectors), short the fuel pump test connector so the pump primes, and will manually ground each injector with no ECU attached. If they fire, it'll be the first time I'll have seen it, so I can rule out bad injectors or something similar.

If that works out, then I've either got a bad ECU or an unhappy one.

 

im telling you, its that damn SE motor billy gave you. its giving you bad luck. ill take it off your hands to ease your pain

 

Crit, I just now found your thread. You are getting things done, I'm glad I sold it to you man. Have you gotten the tittle yet? I was told its in the mail. Sorry about things being so confusing, it was not in a condition to sell mid way through a project and after a move. I regret sacrificing it. Good luck with the current problem I want to see it run again.

 

It'll run again, it's just giving more trouble than I expected. I actually just got done powering up the car without the ECU, and the injectors don't cycle when I ground them. I've got continuity through the line, so I can only think that there's a mechanical problem with the injectors, though it doesn't seem likely. I'll pull the manifolds off tomorrow, put 12V across a hacked injector connector that I've got, and see if I can manually flow some fuel through the damn things.

I was surprised by the undercoat on the car, because it came from Illinois. The rear wheelwell rust is pretty bad, but the rest of the underbody is surprisingly well-preserved. Once I figure out if I've got an ECU problem, wiring harness problem, or injector problem, I'll epoxy the radiator supports to the radiator, hang it all safely, mount the fan, and put some miles on her.

 

Well, the car runs. On the advice of RX3SP, I sent my injectors off to witchhunter performance. They went from flowing 0 and 0 cc/min to 700 / 696. The car's got a seriously shitty idle that surges like mad, but it's up and running. Now I REALLY need to get some airbox brackets so it's safe to drive.

 

good to hear that teh car is running!! have you adjusted the tps?

 

The goo's been dug out of the mixture adjustment, so I'm sure that's been mucked with. The TPS hasn't been adjusted, nor have the throttle stop or idle screw thingy in the middle of the throttle body. Does someone have that link handy to the GSL-SE idle writeup that was hosted on a private page?

 

I've got the timing set now, as the car now idles well enough at 800 revs that I could warm it up to set the timing. The dizzy was originally one tooth retarded, but we set the idle timing and the advance split last night. The bad news is that it now runs rich as hell, and I'm not sure where to start. Because the AFM, TPS, and other hardware are all new to the car, it all needs to be adjusted. I'm just not sure what to start with when you're setting the car up for the first time.

Air Adjust Screw
TPS
Throttle Stop Screw
Wax Pellet high idle speed (finally figured it out and it looks to be adjustable as well)
R/L Mixture Variable Resistor
... and I'm sure there's other stuff.

I've read through the idle problems troubleshooting page (http://www.nellump.net/peri/epi/firs...gslseIdle.html) and have learned more about the setup, but do we have a reference on how to adjust the car from an initial screwed-up state? I currently trust nothing but the timing to be right.

 

Well Crit. I'm glad you at least got the car back running. I hope to see that car back on the road soon. That car is going to make a real nice driver .

 

i would put everything back to oem settings. test everything having to do with the idle. if voltage or resistance is off, replace the part.

 

I've done that by testing the resistance values on the TPS and AFM, and by checking the ECU voltages when it's powered up. What I don't know, though, is how far out of whack my variable resistor is, and the linkage never seems to stop on the high-idle wax pellet lever. I need to double check all the throttle stop screws for throttle body stop, wax pellet position, air adjust, TPS, etc. I've got a lot of screws to turn and just didn't know where to start.

 

With the car off, have you tried to pull the throttle cable all the way back and see if the cam put it into the high idle position. The cam is on the side closest to the firewall. It may be sticking or perhaps you are missing a piece. You need to fully depress the accelerator before starting the SE to set this cam when it is working properly. There are marks on the cam for 0* C and for 25* C temperature. With the engine cold, adjust the screw to whichever temperature is it closest to (or gustimate the position if the temp outside is not close to either value). Check out page 46 of secrtion 4B in the FSM.

For the V/R sensor, just set the pot in the center between fully lean and fully rich setting for now.

Once fast idle cam is working, V/R is set to center, TPS and timing is adjusted, I would try to get an 800 RPM idle (air bleed screw on top, loosen throttle cable if too tight, etc.). Once you have that, go back and re-check timing and TPS to make sure they are still good.

Your best bet is to go through section 4B of the FSM and check everything off one-by-one, until everything is great.

Since you are running quite rich, you may want to also look at fuel pressure. I've seen cases where the regulator sticks closed and puts fuel pressure at like 70 psi instead of 30-ish. Something to check out.

 

Will do. I also need to put the car in the air and replace the fuel filter while I'm at it. Have you seen the V/R make a drastic change in drivability? Thanks for the followup, and I'll get on it again tonight.

 

No, I haven't. It really only adjusts the idle mixture. I'm pretty sure there is a resistance test in the FSM for it just in case you want to verify that it is good. I have a fuel pressure tester around somewhere. I could send it down to you if you want to borrow it, but I'm sure Billy or one of the local guys might have one laying around that you could use too.

 

Well, the car's still in the garage so the idle mixture is the only thing for me to complain about. From reading the FSM, the O2 sensor is only referenced in 5th, so there's never any fine-tuning of the mixture at idle, no matter how warmed up it is. At least adjusting the V/R will keep my eyes from stinging so bad in the garage