Anyone know the torque specs for oil cooler lines?
03-11-07, 11:54 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Anyone know the torque specs for oil cooler lines?
More specifically, does anyone know what the precise torque spec for the oil cooler line banjo bolt that goes below the oil filter tower in a GSL-SE? I did some searching here and in the FSM, but I couldn't seem to find it. I could find the instructions for the oil cooler part (which doesn't leak anymore now, YAY) but not the engine-side of the lines.
*WARNING* Book follows:
By the way, this doesn't have anything to do with the question and you can skip it, but I thought I'd post it just in case anyone is searching and my experience might help them. Or, if you just want to laugh at my lack of mechanical skills. That, and I like typing it out and then rereading my old posts a year later and laughing at myself for being a retard.
My car had always leaked oil, about a quart a week, and I was sick of it. So, I got a good deal on an oil cooler and lines from the for sale section here. Well, I've had a rough month or so, so I have had the parts in my hatch for a month and a half, but I finally decide NOW I will fix it.
I go to my parents garage (really an old barn, but I have lots of tools there) and pull the car it to get to work. I should go ahead and drain the oil anyway, the car is due for an oil change. Except...crap, I forgot to bring my oil pan. Why do I have it at my house (a good drive from here) instead of in the garage where I do my work? Oh well, I'll do that later. I lay down lots of newspapers under the car, pull out the shop towels and Gojo, and get ready for a messy job.
First thing's first, I lay out my parts. New oil cooler, new lines, new crush washers from Mazdatrix, and the tools that I would need. I pop the hood and check to make sure the engine isn't too hot to touch, then I remove the banjo bolt under the filter tower, and place a can beneath it to catch the oil coming out. Easy.
So I look at the other line, that goes into the front cover. I pull out the wrench and get it on the fitting, but I dont' have any room to actually move the wrench. Argh. I have to remove stuff! I look around, and the AC system is the most likely candidate, but then I realize there are metal lines, and I can't really remove that without completely removing the system and depressurizing the AC. I look on the other side, and there the radiator, fan and shroud. I'll have to remove that crap until I have room to turn the wrench. I remove the AC belt, fan, and shroud. I also yank the battery and tray out so I can have a little more room.
Now I can move the wrench, but the bastard won't move. On the cooler side, you can screw/unscrew the fitting without twisting the line itself, on the front cover side you can not. Well, I'm not using this line anyway, lets cut this thing! I grab a hedge trimmer, and break the handle. Oops. So I use a hacksaw. I slice through it in my rage, and then easily remove the line (engine side). Excellent.
All I need to do now is undo the four bolts that mount the cooler and remove it. I'm almost done! I take out the bolts on the drivers side, they are easy since I removed the battery tray. I crawl around to the front and need to remove that grill-like thing on the underside of the bumper cover, which is held on with phillips head screws. Well, you don't use a screwdriver much on this car, right? I have wrenches, air tools, sockets, hammers, big flathead screwdrivers, but I have to have a phillips head, right? It takes me a good 10 minutes to find one. Pop the grill off, and find the bolts. Theres some wire thing that is covering it up, I'm still not sure what it is, but it gets in the way. Damn wire. I undo the remaining mounting bolts, and the cooler is FREE! Well, not quite. It's not connected to anything, but there's too much other crap in the way to pull it free!
I'm getting upset at this point. Why is this so hard? It's two hoses and 4 bolts! I finally decide that the plastic undertray has to go. I put the front up on jackstands, and remove it. Hey, it comes off pretty easy. It is nasty though, with several years of oil caked on it. But now, NOW the cooler should be free!
...Not quite. I was planning on just pulling the cooler out and then disconnecting the hoses since the cooler side is a bitch to loosen while on the car, but I don't have much of a choice now. I undo those fittings, and finally, FINALLY, the thing comes free.
I lay the old cooler and lines next to the new one and compare, to make sure they match. Well, there is one small difference. Forgive me for not knowing the technical term, but the new cooler the bungs on the cooler are both "male," while on the old one it was one "male" and one "female." I thought this to be odd, since my new cooler was also from a 84 GSLSE. Oh well, my new hoses matched the new cooler, and the mounts were identical, so it will work.
Since I know how it all goes together now, I put the cooler, lines, fan/shroud and battery all back in pretty quickly and without incident. I get the cooler side finger tight as were the instructions I got from here, expecting it to dribble some and I could tighten until it stops leaking. I check my oil, it is full, let's crank the car.
I crank her up, and enjoy sweet rotary bliss for a second. I go to the front and look under her- OIL GEYSER!!!!!!!! CRAP KILL THE CAR!
In just a few seconds, my car just spewed 3 gallons wonderous 20w50. I fill the car back up with oil, and crawl under there to tighten the fittings some more. Then I realize, I can't really clean that oil mess up with a car sitting on top of it. Also, I can't reach the fittings and not get dirty. So, I lay down in the pool of oil. I tighten the fittings some more, and then use shop towels to try to get oil out of my hair. My mom pulls up, while I'm under there, and I ask her to please go to the store and get me some cat litter, I'm going to need it.
This time I crank the car and it dribbles just a little bit, tighten a wee bit more and there is no leak whatsoever. I then back my car out and clean up the oil mess, fun. I should have used more newspapers, I suppose. On a more positive note, the oil that spewed out was pretty clean, so I got my oil change afterall, I just threw on the new filter.
After some testing, it still drips slightly from the banjo bolt, hence my question about torque. It is literally one small drop leaking when I turn the car off, no biggie. I noticed on highway driving that the car is staying quite a bit cooler too. Nice.
*WARNING* Book follows:
By the way, this doesn't have anything to do with the question and you can skip it, but I thought I'd post it just in case anyone is searching and my experience might help them. Or, if you just want to laugh at my lack of mechanical skills. That, and I like typing it out and then rereading my old posts a year later and laughing at myself for being a retard.
My car had always leaked oil, about a quart a week, and I was sick of it. So, I got a good deal on an oil cooler and lines from the for sale section here. Well, I've had a rough month or so, so I have had the parts in my hatch for a month and a half, but I finally decide NOW I will fix it.
I go to my parents garage (really an old barn, but I have lots of tools there) and pull the car it to get to work. I should go ahead and drain the oil anyway, the car is due for an oil change. Except...crap, I forgot to bring my oil pan. Why do I have it at my house (a good drive from here) instead of in the garage where I do my work? Oh well, I'll do that later. I lay down lots of newspapers under the car, pull out the shop towels and Gojo, and get ready for a messy job.
First thing's first, I lay out my parts. New oil cooler, new lines, new crush washers from Mazdatrix, and the tools that I would need. I pop the hood and check to make sure the engine isn't too hot to touch, then I remove the banjo bolt under the filter tower, and place a can beneath it to catch the oil coming out. Easy.
So I look at the other line, that goes into the front cover. I pull out the wrench and get it on the fitting, but I dont' have any room to actually move the wrench. Argh. I have to remove stuff! I look around, and the AC system is the most likely candidate, but then I realize there are metal lines, and I can't really remove that without completely removing the system and depressurizing the AC. I look on the other side, and there the radiator, fan and shroud. I'll have to remove that crap until I have room to turn the wrench. I remove the AC belt, fan, and shroud. I also yank the battery and tray out so I can have a little more room.
Now I can move the wrench, but the bastard won't move. On the cooler side, you can screw/unscrew the fitting without twisting the line itself, on the front cover side you can not. Well, I'm not using this line anyway, lets cut this thing! I grab a hedge trimmer, and break the handle. Oops. So I use a hacksaw. I slice through it in my rage, and then easily remove the line (engine side). Excellent.
All I need to do now is undo the four bolts that mount the cooler and remove it. I'm almost done! I take out the bolts on the drivers side, they are easy since I removed the battery tray. I crawl around to the front and need to remove that grill-like thing on the underside of the bumper cover, which is held on with phillips head screws. Well, you don't use a screwdriver much on this car, right? I have wrenches, air tools, sockets, hammers, big flathead screwdrivers, but I have to have a phillips head, right? It takes me a good 10 minutes to find one. Pop the grill off, and find the bolts. Theres some wire thing that is covering it up, I'm still not sure what it is, but it gets in the way. Damn wire. I undo the remaining mounting bolts, and the cooler is FREE! Well, not quite. It's not connected to anything, but there's too much other crap in the way to pull it free!
I'm getting upset at this point. Why is this so hard? It's two hoses and 4 bolts! I finally decide that the plastic undertray has to go. I put the front up on jackstands, and remove it. Hey, it comes off pretty easy. It is nasty though, with several years of oil caked on it. But now, NOW the cooler should be free!
...Not quite. I was planning on just pulling the cooler out and then disconnecting the hoses since the cooler side is a bitch to loosen while on the car, but I don't have much of a choice now. I undo those fittings, and finally, FINALLY, the thing comes free.
I lay the old cooler and lines next to the new one and compare, to make sure they match. Well, there is one small difference. Forgive me for not knowing the technical term, but the new cooler the bungs on the cooler are both "male," while on the old one it was one "male" and one "female." I thought this to be odd, since my new cooler was also from a 84 GSLSE. Oh well, my new hoses matched the new cooler, and the mounts were identical, so it will work.
Since I know how it all goes together now, I put the cooler, lines, fan/shroud and battery all back in pretty quickly and without incident. I get the cooler side finger tight as were the instructions I got from here, expecting it to dribble some and I could tighten until it stops leaking. I check my oil, it is full, let's crank the car.
I crank her up, and enjoy sweet rotary bliss for a second. I go to the front and look under her- OIL GEYSER!!!!!!!! CRAP KILL THE CAR!
In just a few seconds, my car just spewed 3 gallons wonderous 20w50. I fill the car back up with oil, and crawl under there to tighten the fittings some more. Then I realize, I can't really clean that oil mess up with a car sitting on top of it. Also, I can't reach the fittings and not get dirty. So, I lay down in the pool of oil. I tighten the fittings some more, and then use shop towels to try to get oil out of my hair. My mom pulls up, while I'm under there, and I ask her to please go to the store and get me some cat litter, I'm going to need it.
This time I crank the car and it dribbles just a little bit, tighten a wee bit more and there is no leak whatsoever. I then back my car out and clean up the oil mess, fun. I should have used more newspapers, I suppose. On a more positive note, the oil that spewed out was pretty clean, so I got my oil change afterall, I just threw on the new filter.
After some testing, it still drips slightly from the banjo bolt, hence my question about torque. It is literally one small drop leaking when I turn the car off, no biggie. I noticed on highway driving that the car is staying quite a bit cooler too. Nice.
03-12-07, 12:23 AM
#2
I'm confused. There should not be a banjo bolt in the area that you are refeering to on a SE. The only banjo bolt that is for the oil cooler lines is located on the side of the block from the longer hose.
The main cause of oil leaks from the oil cooler hoses is the usage of the wrong crush washers. You should be using aluminum washers. Read your post and it states that you did.
The rule of thumb that I use on the fittings is to tighten down until snug, then tighten another 1/4-1/2 of a turn. I have never seen torque specs for those fittings.
The main cause of oil leaks from the oil cooler hoses is the usage of the wrong crush washers. You should be using aluminum washers. Read your post and it states that you did.
The rule of thumb that I use on the fittings is to tighten down until snug, then tighten another 1/4-1/2 of a turn. I have never seen torque specs for those fittings.
03-12-07, 02:46 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by rx7doctor
I'm confused. There should not be a banjo bolt in the area that you are refeering to on a SE. The only banjo bolt that is for the oil cooler lines is located on the side of the block from the longer hose.
The main cause of oil leaks from the oil cooler hoses is the usage of the wrong crush washers. You should be using aluminum washers. Read your post and it states that you did.
The rule of thumb that I use on the fittings is to tighten down until snug, then tighten another 1/4-1/2 of a turn. I have never seen torque specs for those fittings.
The main cause of oil leaks from the oil cooler hoses is the usage of the wrong crush washers. You should be using aluminum washers. Read your post and it states that you did.
The rule of thumb that I use on the fittings is to tighten down until snug, then tighten another 1/4-1/2 of a turn. I have never seen torque specs for those fittings.
03-12-07, 04:18 AM
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cool story hansel. im about to put my cooler back in. cool. dont u love it how old cars refuse to give u bolts? to anyone who doesnt have one get some high quality locking pliers. btw u have to say 'cool' like zoolander says it.
03-13-07, 07:51 AM
#7
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After 24 years of RX-7 ownership, I haven't ever found a torque spec for those either.
The bolts/threads are very strong, you are not going to damage the bolt. The thing is not to over crush the sealing washer. We use sealing washers on some high dollar pressure transducers here at work. The instructions that came with them said "for the first use, torque them to XX ft-lbs, then the next time you tighten them torque it 10% higher, then the next time 10% higher than that. After the 4th time, throw the sealing washer away and install a new one."
As with all most pressure fittings, the correct torque is going to be the amount that is just enough to not leak.
Anything more can be too much if you are going to reuse the fittings again.
On the fitting you indicated, I use 40 to 50 ft-lbs of torque, and install new sealing washers.
The bolts/threads are very strong, you are not going to damage the bolt. The thing is not to over crush the sealing washer. We use sealing washers on some high dollar pressure transducers here at work. The instructions that came with them said "for the first use, torque them to XX ft-lbs, then the next time you tighten them torque it 10% higher, then the next time 10% higher than that. After the 4th time, throw the sealing washer away and install a new one."
As with all most pressure fittings, the correct torque is going to be the amount that is just enough to not leak.
Anything more can be too much if you are going to reuse the fittings again.
On the fitting you indicated, I use 40 to 50 ft-lbs of torque, and install new sealing washers.
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03-13-07, 08:11 AM
#8
Originally Posted by speedturn
After 24 years of RX-7 ownership, I haven't ever found a torque spec for those either.
The bolts/threads are very strong, you are not going to damage the bolt. The thing is not to over crush the sealing washer. We use sealing washers on some high dollar pressure transducers here at work. The instructions that came with them said "for the first use, torque them to XX ft-lbs, then the next time you tighten them torque it 10% higher, then the next time 10% higher than that. After the 4th time, throw the sealing washer away and install a new one."
As with all most pressure fittings, the correct torque is going to be the amount that is just enough to not leak.
Anything more can be too much if you are going to reuse the fittings again.
On the fitting you indicated, I use 40 to 50 ft-lbs of torque, and install new sealing washers.
The bolts/threads are very strong, you are not going to damage the bolt. The thing is not to over crush the sealing washer. We use sealing washers on some high dollar pressure transducers here at work. The instructions that came with them said "for the first use, torque them to XX ft-lbs, then the next time you tighten them torque it 10% higher, then the next time 10% higher than that. After the 4th time, throw the sealing washer away and install a new one."
As with all most pressure fittings, the correct torque is going to be the amount that is just enough to not leak.
Anything more can be too much if you are going to reuse the fittings again.
On the fitting you indicated, I use 40 to 50 ft-lbs of torque, and install new sealing washers.
amen to that. And always use 2 wrenches when securing the oil line fittings. I have a special tool for that: 21mm grinded down to watch the stock OC inlet fittings. Otherwise, you will crack the OIL and the front cover also.
03-13-07, 03:25 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Well, I have a bigger problem now. After driving the car about 200 miles or so, it seems I have another leak from the cooler itself, seeming to come from the lower bung. It's not as bad as the old one, but it is still there. Argh, I must have overtightned it.
I'll double check to make sure that it is not simply too loose, otherwise I'm throwing an FC cooler in there, it should be easy enough once I get the correct lines for that application. Then, I shall unleash my rage on the FB oil cooler with a BFH.
I'll double check to make sure that it is not simply too loose, otherwise I'm throwing an FC cooler in there, it should be easy enough once I get the correct lines for that application. Then, I shall unleash my rage on the FB oil cooler with a BFH.
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