5th and 6th port opening.
11-02-03, 02:01 PM
#1
trainwreck
Thread Starter
5th and 6th port opening.
Im redoin a ton of stuff on my GSL-SE this winter. One thing is my exhaust. Im going to run a rb header into a straight pipe to my exhaust. I dont want to wire my 5th and 6th ports open unless i have to, so can i just weld a pipe the same size as the one on my stock cat and run it to the backpressure pickup tube thing?
11-02-03, 02:31 PM
#2
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Opening your 5th and 6th ports doesn't make much difference. Personally i'd remove the sleeves.
When racing you shouldn't see under 4,000 RPMs anyway, i'd generally launch my car at that RPM.
Wire them open for now (this takes about 5 minutes) and go for a drive to see how you like it. Don't just take it around the block, but take it for a little distance. Go to the country, do a little spirited driving.
Good luck.
When racing you shouldn't see under 4,000 RPMs anyway, i'd generally launch my car at that RPM.
Wire them open for now (this takes about 5 minutes) and go for a drive to see how you like it. Don't just take it around the block, but take it for a little distance. Go to the country, do a little spirited driving.
Good luck.
11-02-03, 03:28 PM
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Pull the actuators off, grab a zip tie or anything that will hold it in place.
There will be a peg you want to push the lever towards and zip tie it to that. (you'll know what i'm talking about as soon as you pull off the actuators)
There will be a peg you want to push the lever towards and zip tie it to that. (you'll know what i'm talking about as soon as you pull off the actuators)
11-02-03, 03:49 PM
#5
trainwreck
Thread Starter
I went and looked at my car, i was looking down by the exhaust manifolds on the passenger side where i believe the actuators are. There are 2 things that look like a saucer witha pluger going into them. With the engine off the plunger is out as far as it can, if i try to push it, they dont move. Am i looking at the 2 completely wrong things?
11-02-03, 03:59 PM
#6
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You're on the right thing, your actuators are frozen. You're going to have to tap those levers with a hammer to get them to move.
You're going to notice a huge difference at 4,000rpms after you wire them open.
You're going to notice a huge difference at 4,000rpms after you wire them open.
11-02-03, 04:02 PM
#7
trainwreck
Thread Starter
Yea, currently the pipe leading form my Cat to the backpressure pickup is broke, so theyll have to be wired open for now, but if i did want to reconvert it back to where they open themselves, could i just weld a pipe to the pickup hose from a striaght pipe, imma go try and brake them loose, wat all must i remove to wire them open?
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11-02-03, 04:06 PM
#8
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You'll have to remove the two actuators, two nuts per actuator, the peg i was talking about wiring it to is the threads for one of these nuts. (if i recall correctly, it's been over a year since i've done this). I doubt you'll be able to use your pick-up tube with a straight pipe, i believe it takes 3psi of backpressure to run the actuators.
11-02-03, 04:11 PM
#9
trainwreck
Thread Starter
k, why do u have to take those plunger type things off, why doesnt just wiring those down work?, i hammered mine and got them to move, theyre stuck down, so imma have to do a lil work to get them to work right
11-02-03, 04:21 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't wire them open, especially if they are functioning properly - you will kill your low-end. So, unless you plan to do all your serious driving about 5K RPM, and don't care about the low end, you might want to reconsider disabling them.
There are several people here, far more knowledgeable than myself, and some of the techs at Mazdatrix I have spoken with that are big advocates of getting them working right. They are there for a reason.
You can't always push them down, just because the actuator springs are against you and it is a rotating motion, not straight down. So, they may or may not be stuck. It is a moot point whether you can move them manually, what you care about is whether the backpressure will cause the actuators to work at the right RPM.
Turn on the car and have somebody rev it to 3K RPM, and then slowly bring it up to 5K RPM (assuming the factory backpressure hose is still connected). Starting around 3500-3800 the actuators should start moving. If so...don't wire them open because they are working. If not, decide whether you want to properly fix them or just take the JBWeld approach and wire them open.
You can buy a backpressure tube flange from RacingBeat for like $3. Any welding shop can weld a tube to that flange and onto the straight pipe you are talking about (take the CAT as an example). I just had this done...it cost me $30 and they supplied the stainless steel tube (it was a very professional job too). Then you can use the stock backpressure/split air hose.
That is the proper way to do what you want to do, preserve your low-end and get your high-end.
...or you can follow the "bailing wire, duct tape, and JBWeld school of engineering" approach.
Do a search for some threads where Long Duck comments on the auxiliary ports...he has a really good explanation of what they can do for you and how to get them working properly. At worst, you will learn something and then can make an informed decision based on the type of driving you intend to do.
There are several people here, far more knowledgeable than myself, and some of the techs at Mazdatrix I have spoken with that are big advocates of getting them working right. They are there for a reason.
You can't always push them down, just because the actuator springs are against you and it is a rotating motion, not straight down. So, they may or may not be stuck. It is a moot point whether you can move them manually, what you care about is whether the backpressure will cause the actuators to work at the right RPM.
Turn on the car and have somebody rev it to 3K RPM, and then slowly bring it up to 5K RPM (assuming the factory backpressure hose is still connected). Starting around 3500-3800 the actuators should start moving. If so...don't wire them open because they are working. If not, decide whether you want to properly fix them or just take the JBWeld approach and wire them open.
You can buy a backpressure tube flange from RacingBeat for like $3. Any welding shop can weld a tube to that flange and onto the straight pipe you are talking about (take the CAT as an example). I just had this done...it cost me $30 and they supplied the stainless steel tube (it was a very professional job too). Then you can use the stock backpressure/split air hose.
That is the proper way to do what you want to do, preserve your low-end and get your high-end.
...or you can follow the "bailing wire, duct tape, and JBWeld school of engineering" approach.
Do a search for some threads where Long Duck comments on the auxiliary ports...he has a really good explanation of what they can do for you and how to get them working properly. At worst, you will learn something and then can make an informed decision based on the type of driving you intend to do.
Last edited by TexasGunRunner; 11-02-03 at 04:31 PM.
11-02-03, 04:23 PM
#11
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You can weld a fitting into place so you can still hook up your actuators, the only problem though is that with you putting on headers and a straight pipe as your exhaust, there is not much chance of you being able to great enough backpressure to move those plungers. 
11-02-03, 04:24 PM
#12
trainwreck
Thread Starter
Yea ive read that, my main concern was just if i could weld a metal tube to my backpressure pickup tube off of my straight pipe myself. Im making my own straight pipe for between the header and muffler. But i wasnt sure if there would be enough psi. Im just trying to get the actuators to move right now. Once htey move ill decide wat to do
11-02-03, 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by TexasGunRunner
Personally, I wouldn't wire them open, especially if they are functioning properly - you will kill your low-end. So, unless you plan to do all your serious driving about 5K RPM, and don't care about the low end, you might wnat to reconsider disabling them.
There are several people here, far more knowledgeable than myself, and some of the techs at Mazdatrix I have spoken with that are big advocates of getting them working right. They are there for a reason.
You can't always push them down, just because the actuator springs are against you and it is a rotating motion, not straight down. So, they may or may not be stuck. It is a moot point whether you can move them manually, what you care about is whether the backpressure will cause the actuators to work at the right RPM.
Turn on the car and have somebody rev it to 3K RPM, and then slowly bring it up to 5K RPM (assuming the factory backpressure hose is still connected). Starting around 3500-3800 the actuators should start moving. If so...don't wire them open because they are working. If not, decide whether you want to properly fix them or just take the JBWeld approach and wire them open.
You can buy a backpressure tube flange from RacingBeat for like $3. Any welding shop can weld a tube to that flange and onto the straight pipe you are talking about (take the CAT as an example). I just had this done...it cost me $30 and they supplied the stainless steel tube (it was a very professional job too). Then you can use the stock backpressure/split air hose.
That is the proper way to do what you want to do, preserve your low-end and get your high-end.
...or you can follow the "bailing wire, duct tape, and JBWeld school of engineering" approach.
Do a search for some threads where Long Duck comments on the auxiliary ports...he has a really good explanation of what they can do for you and how to get them working properly. At worst, you will learn something and then can make an informed decision based on the type of driving you intend to do.
Personally, I wouldn't wire them open, especially if they are functioning properly - you will kill your low-end. So, unless you plan to do all your serious driving about 5K RPM, and don't care about the low end, you might wnat to reconsider disabling them.
There are several people here, far more knowledgeable than myself, and some of the techs at Mazdatrix I have spoken with that are big advocates of getting them working right. They are there for a reason.
You can't always push them down, just because the actuator springs are against you and it is a rotating motion, not straight down. So, they may or may not be stuck. It is a moot point whether you can move them manually, what you care about is whether the backpressure will cause the actuators to work at the right RPM.
Turn on the car and have somebody rev it to 3K RPM, and then slowly bring it up to 5K RPM (assuming the factory backpressure hose is still connected). Starting around 3500-3800 the actuators should start moving. If so...don't wire them open because they are working. If not, decide whether you want to properly fix them or just take the JBWeld approach and wire them open.
You can buy a backpressure tube flange from RacingBeat for like $3. Any welding shop can weld a tube to that flange and onto the straight pipe you are talking about (take the CAT as an example). I just had this done...it cost me $30 and they supplied the stainless steel tube (it was a very professional job too). Then you can use the stock backpressure/split air hose.
That is the proper way to do what you want to do, preserve your low-end and get your high-end.
...or you can follow the "bailing wire, duct tape, and JBWeld school of engineering" approach.
Do a search for some threads where Long Duck comments on the auxiliary ports...he has a really good explanation of what they can do for you and how to get them working properly. At worst, you will learn something and then can make an informed decision based on the type of driving you intend to do.
Remove the actuators so you can tie down the levers. If you leave the actuators and don't tie them down you risk one of the acuators popping the lever back up.
Like i said it's 2 nuts per actuator.
11-02-03, 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by gump
You can weld a fitting into place so you can still hook up your actuators, the only problem though is that with you putting on headers and a straight pipe as your exhaust, there is not much chance of you being able to great enough backpressure to move those plungers.
You can weld a fitting into place so you can still hook up your actuators, the only problem though is that with you putting on headers and a straight pipe as your exhaust, there is not much chance of you being able to great enough backpressure to move those plungers.
If they are, you could go to a setup where the actuators are powered by the air pump instead of the backpressure tube. Several people on the board have switched over to using the air pump. I haven't, but apparently Mazda did in the Gen II non-turbos. If you search for the threads on Auxiliary ports, you'll see the comments and you can PM asking them about it.
11-02-03, 04:28 PM
#16
trainwreck
Thread Starter
are the actuators the little saucer things? after i remove them, if thats what they are, is there anyhting else i have to do other than wire it down? this will be my temporary solution until i find a way to get it to work the original way i think, depending on how i like it
11-02-03, 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by BigJim
are the actuators the little saucer things? after i remove them, if thats what they are, is there anyhting else i have to do other than wire it down? this will be my temporary solution until i find a way to get it to work the original way i think, depending on how i like it
are the actuators the little saucer things? after i remove them, if thats what they are, is there anyhting else i have to do other than wire it down? this will be my temporary solution until i find a way to get it to work the original way i think, depending on how i like it
11-02-03, 04:33 PM
#18
trainwreck
Thread Starter
All right, thanks a ton. Is there a way i can hook them u p later on down the road without having to use a cat or presilencer witht heir backpressure tube?
11-02-03, 10:12 PM
#23
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Hey, O 16581 72452 5, telling another forum member (namely TexasGunRunner) that he doesn't know what he's talking about, and to 'shut up' is just bad manners.
We're all here to learn something new and get help from other members, and treating someone disrespectfully isn't a good way to combine assistance for the original poster.
As stated, the Mazda engineers designed '6'-port induction specifically for the SE's, and this design was used later on in various methods throughout the FC series - this is to say that it was a successful method of providing for a flatter torque curve.
A quick search should reveal enough information for the original poster to make an informed decision. Good luck, BigJim.
We're all here to learn something new and get help from other members, and treating someone disrespectfully isn't a good way to combine assistance for the original poster.
As stated, the Mazda engineers designed '6'-port induction specifically for the SE's, and this design was used later on in various methods throughout the FC series - this is to say that it was a successful method of providing for a flatter torque curve.
A quick search should reveal enough information for the original poster to make an informed decision. Good luck, BigJim.
11-02-03, 10:29 PM
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I told him the facts and TexasGunRunner contricted me by saying things that weren't true. I can tell by what he said that he's never expirenced wired or removed sleeves, i however have.
11-02-03, 10:53 PM
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Actually, you are mistaken. I have -- one of my cars has the sleeves removed. I am in the process of putting them back.
In fact, if you search back about two months, you will find a question from me asking why someone would remove the actuators and whether they are worth replacing.
What I haven't experienced is a properly working auxiliarly port setup. I have spoken with two techs at length from Mazdatrix that strongly encouraged me to replace the sleeves and actuators. I have also read posts by several people on the board who have taken the time to get their auxiliary ports working properly and have noticed benefits.
If there is something specific I said that was wrong, or that I reversed, I would like to know what it is - because as I stated, I am trying to learn which is why I suggested he search for posts from those "more knowledgeable than myself."
I decided not to respond earlier because I realized my comments about "JBWeld and duct tape engineering" were probably a little agreesive. For that I apologize.
I have wasted a lot of time fixing cars, rifles, and computer systems where the previous owner did more harm then good by taking a 'quick fix' approach rather than trying to learn what was wrong and fixing it properly. It is a pet peeve, and I should have edited it out in my response.
FWIW, an accurate comparison (for both me and BigJim) would be to compare a car with properly functioning 6 port induction versus wired open; not wired open and frozen shut.
Thanks,
Brian TC
In fact, if you search back about two months, you will find a question from me asking why someone would remove the actuators and whether they are worth replacing.
What I haven't experienced is a properly working auxiliarly port setup. I have spoken with two techs at length from Mazdatrix that strongly encouraged me to replace the sleeves and actuators. I have also read posts by several people on the board who have taken the time to get their auxiliary ports working properly and have noticed benefits.
If there is something specific I said that was wrong, or that I reversed, I would like to know what it is - because as I stated, I am trying to learn which is why I suggested he search for posts from those "more knowledgeable than myself."
I decided not to respond earlier because I realized my comments about "JBWeld and duct tape engineering" were probably a little agreesive. For that I apologize.
I have wasted a lot of time fixing cars, rifles, and computer systems where the previous owner did more harm then good by taking a 'quick fix' approach rather than trying to learn what was wrong and fixing it properly. It is a pet peeve, and I should have edited it out in my response.
FWIW, an accurate comparison (for both me and BigJim) would be to compare a car with properly functioning 6 port induction versus wired open; not wired open and frozen shut.
Thanks,
Brian TC
Last edited by TexasGunRunner; 11-02-03 at 11:02 PM.