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I've been lurking in the background for a while, stealing knowledge and slowly reassembling my RX7 Elford Turbo after it being sat since some time in the mid-90s
She's at the point of MOT readiness now. I applied for Historic Tax Exempt (I have two other cars also on Historic Tax) to have it turned down for not being registered before 01/01/1983
From my limited knowledge I'm convinced it was built in 1982.
I just need a way of proving this so I don't have to pay road tax on a technicality.
unfortunately i don't know of a source for European vins or cataloging or anything
the vin breaks down like this though JMZFB131200667387
J= Japan
MZ = Mazda Europe, a US car is M1
FB = these two are the chassis, FB is an FB, FC is an FC, etc. the Miata is an N, 323 is a B, etc
13 = this is usually the body style, in an FC the coupe is 33 and the vert is 35, not sure about an EU FB, for a US car they are all 33
1 = engine, 1 is a 12A. GSL-SE is a 2
2 = its a check digit
0 = Model year, in the US we start with letters, go to numbers and then back to letters, maybe Europe went the opposite way?
0 = the factory code, 0 is Hiroshima, 1 is Hofu
6 = this is what i call the version number, its sort of like the model year. 6 is a 1982 model, even in the US, which is kind of odd
67387 = this is the chassis number. Mazda assigns the vin before the car is made, and generally they come out of the factory in number order, but not always.
the US parts fish has a list of monthly starting vins, or the vin that starts each month, and June 1982 starts with 652106, July they have switched to the 1983 cars, which are 7xxxxx's.
so best guess 67387 would be like early July 1982?
the other piece to the puzzle is that it takes 6-8 weeks for Mazda to get a car from the factory to the dealership, in the US, and the UK is further.
so if it was built in July 1982 it wouldn't have been in the showroom until September of 1982, so you have ~4 months for it to get registered before the due date.
unfortunately i don't know of a source for European vins or cataloging or anything
the vin breaks down like this though JMZFB131200667387
J= Japan
MZ = Mazda Europe, a US car is M1
FB = these two are the chassis, FB is an FB, FC is an FC, etc. the Miata is an N, 323 is a B, etc
13 = this is usually the body style, in an FC the coupe is 33 and the vert is 35, not sure about an EU FB, for a US car they are all 33
1 = engine, 1 is a 12A. GSL-SE is a 2
2 = its a check digit
0 = Model year, in the US we start with letters, go to numbers and then back to letters, maybe Europe went the opposite way?
0 = the factory code, 0 is Hiroshima, 1 is Hofu
6 = this is what i call the version number, its sort of like the model year. 6 is a 1982 model, even in the US, which is kind of odd
67387 = this is the chassis number. Mazda assigns the vin before the car is made, and generally they come out of the factory in number order, but not always.
the US parts fish has a list of monthly starting vins, or the vin that starts each month, and June 1982 starts with 652106, July they have switched to the 1983 cars, which are 7xxxxx's.
so best guess 67387 would be like early July 1982?
the other piece to the puzzle is that it takes 6-8 weeks for Mazda to get a car from the factory to the dealership, in the US, and the UK is further.
so if it was built in July 1982 it wouldn't have been in the showroom until September of 1982, so you have ~4 months for it to get registered before the due date.
Hold on a sec. This looks like a German market car with a 17-digit VIN. If it follows the same rules as a North American one, it has "0" for the year digit and that means it is 1980 under a special exception. In the US, it was optional for manufacturers to use a 17-digit VIN with "0" (Ford and AMC) or "A" (General Motors and Chrysler) for the year digit so they could be fully ready for 1981 when it became mandatory.
I have the Euro-spec catalogs, but they only go back to November 1985 for the FC. Naming convention is the same for it though. It doesn't have the first gen data in it, but it it would be input as JMZFB1312--667387. Applying the same logic to my FC's VIN, it would be JM1FC3318--523334 despite being identified as a 1987 model built on 11/11/1986. It sounds VERY odd that Mazda would burn through 5 different serial number prefixes from September 1985 to November 1986.
Let me try the UK catalogs and see what comes up. Earliest that shows up in the list is the FC, October 1985. All of the VIN breakdown/definition stuff is the same as the German/Mainland Europe catalog. It's been a minute since I dug deeper into the catalog numbers and whatnot, but I can look into this if you're interested. Might take a few days to extrapolate the proper catalog number(s) by reverse-engineering the JDM numbering algorithm and backporting it to the Euro-spec and USDM catalogs. Euro catalogs follow Japanese naming conventions with a few tweaks.
Japanese catalogs for the SA22C RX-7 (first gen) are as follows:
#26: March 1978 - October 1980 (VIN 100001 - 160000
#F01: October 1980 - September 1983 (VIN 160001 - 300000)
#F02*: September 1983 - August 1985 (VIN 300001 - 400000)
Catalog #25 is for the Savanna RX-3, July 1971 - April 1977 (chassis codes S102A, S102W, S124A, S124W), so it can't be that.
Also, #F02 is internally identified by "ADS AC 03". The HB Cosmo's catalog (9/1983 also) has a different catalog identifier, but follows the same format (ADC DE). The 12/1981 Luce/Luce Van is very similar too (ADL AJ)
For the FC and FD, Japan's catalogs go AJFA01 (September 1985, FC series 4), AJFA02 (January 1989, FC series 5), AJFA03 (October 1991, FD version 1), etc to AJFA08. Replace the "J" with "B" for UK models, E for European models and U for US/North American models.
As for "exporting" pre-FC catalogs, this is just a theory but I suspect the "ADS AC" for the Japanese Series 3 (first gen) breaks down as follows:
A: All Parts Catalogs
D: Domestic (Japan)
S: Savanna RX-7
A: (not sure as of yet)
C: 3rd series
Haven't been able to confirm this pattern applies to Euro or US models yet, but I'll report back when I have something more solid.
EDIT: A few minutes after posting, I was digging in the Euro EPC and came across this. For simplicity, let's call this catalog format Pre-1985, while the one used on the FC is the Modern format
Vehicle: T2000 through T4100 (AKA Titan truck)
March 1984 Catalog: ALE XJ
June 1984 Catalog: ALA ED
"L" for Europe Left hand drive fits the pattern. Is your car left or right-hand drive? If we can figure out the proper catalog(s) to look in, it'll tell us what sub-generation it belongs to beyond any doubts. As I'm writing this, I'm looking through the Japanese catalogs for a match to corroborate the pattern. And I just found it:
Japan Market Titan truck
January 1984 catalog: ADT AJ
There's another listing for January 1984 under a different header for the Titan. ADT AK. I'm not sure what the difference is between them yet. Maybe single and double cab?
Also, the Parkway Bus follows the Pre-1985 format too.
May 1984 catalog: ADT MB. It's a derivative of the Titan truck, so it shares ADT as the prefix too.
Familia Van:
October 1983: ADF AL
Bongo (van)
September 1983: ADB AE
Bongo Brawny (van)
May 1985: ADB AD
Ford J80/Field Runner/Spectron
September 1983: ADB FA
Ford J100
January 1984: ADB FB
Ford Spectron:
September 1983: ADB FA
This is all I can find on the Pre-1985 Japanese catalog ID number format. Hopefully we can figure out the nomenclature pattern from this and what I suspected to be true earlier, then apply it to European market stuff to get the answers you're seeking
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 05-25-23 at 06:36 PM.
Reason: More info on Euro catalogs
Japanese catalogs for the SA22C RX-7 (first gen) are as follows:
#26: March 1978 - October 1980 (VIN 100001 - 160000
I always believed that production of the SA22C's commenced in Jan 78 with the 10000 series, JDM cars. That they made approximately 6000 units in both Jan and Feb in preparation for their world wide launch in March. That same month (March), they began building the export (50000) series VIN's. Do you have info that's different?
I have a 10000 series car and would like to find some kind of validation on it's build month. They didn't come with the door jam plate the US car were required to have, listing the date. Being S/N 4591, my assumption is it was built in January, the first month of assembly.
I always believed that production of the SA22C's commenced in Jan 78 with the 10000 series, JDM cars. That they made approximately 6000 units in both Jan and Feb in preparation for their world wide launch in March. That same month (March), they began building the export (50000) series VIN's. Do you have info that's different?
I have a 10000 series car and would like to find some kind of validation on it's build month. They didn't come with the door jam plate the US car were required to have, listing the date. Being S/N 4591, my assumption is it was built in January, the first month of assembly.
(Picture removed from quote for clarity)
Unfortunately, the earliest Japanese production information is what I said above. It was found in the Series 5 Japanese Parts Catalog, so it's about as official as one can get on this. To go further into it, I would have to source Japanese parts catalogs and shop manuals for the SA22C. It's on the backlog list, but I have a lot of work to do before I can take on more. Still gotta finish the FD Wiring Bible, do imaging on the Infini FC Supplements and 20B Cosmo transmission manual. And occasionally, boss cat Savanna likes when I have a day off because cat.
In the meantime, here's a treat from my archive of a ludicrous number of pictures of manuals, catalogs, etc. There's a LOT of them, and it's all a jumbled mess. And I wanna say I've seen maybe 7 or so Workshop Manuals too, including a couple for the 12A Turbo. No, I don't have it yet so don't ask...
For those that can't read Japanese, here's the dirt:
Savanna RX-7 (SA22C)
Effective production dates are 10/1980 (Showa 55) to 8/1983 (Showa 58), for SA22C VIN# 160001 to 30000. December 1984 Print Edition.
I have a digital version of the 9/1983 to 8/1985 catalog. It is the ADS AC one I mentioned earlier. Just a "dumb" idea, but I'd guess this one pictures is ADS AB. I'll have to see it in person and leaf through it to be certain.
The V5 says first registered for road tax in UK 01/10/1983
Here's a picture of the car for clarity.
It will have been setup by Elford, although without the body kit but the UV staining where I've taken the badge off certainly implies it's an original Elford, although it predates the control computer they fitted.
Also it only has a drivers door mirror. No passenger no where to fit one.
Can you put up a few more pictures, such as from the rear, interior, etc? I'm leaning toward this being a Series 2 (81-83) as the bumper lights are at the corners but not strictly facing forward. There's a few differences between early S2 and late S2 so I'd like to confirm this beyond a reasonable doubt. Typically, lack of a passenger side mirror was a late 70s cost-cutting measure such as on the lowest-spec Chevrolet Chevette (my mom had a 1979 Chevette like this). But in this case, every Japan-spec SA22C I've seen has fender mirrors only. That would explain why your passenger side door is lacking the mounting locations for a mirror.
Based on this (and I could be mistaken, take it with a grain of salt), I'd say it is quite unlikely yours is a 1983 model. Also, the 6xxxxx cars are identified in the USDM parts catalogs as 1982 Models, with production being May 1981 to June 1982. July 1982 is when the 1983 models began. It doesn't give a specific date for the changeover, but there are parts specific to 1983 that would differentiate it from 81-82. IIRC, one is the Emissions ECU. And based on your VIN, it suggests it was one of the last 1982 models ever made. June 1982's starting VIN in the US is #652106. On July 1st 1982, they switched over to 7xxxxx and #700132 was the first VIN off the line for the US. This is just a hypothesis, but I did the math to estimate the final US VIN and it came up as #656463. Yours is #667387, so I would estimate its build date to be approximately June 25-30th, 1982. To pin it down, I'll need a Euro-spec parts catalog though.
Anyway, there are a bunch of 1983-specific parts. ECU is a big one. For the US, N201-N203 is 1981-1982. N231-N232 is 1983 Manual Trans and Auto Trans respectively. ECU numbering is typically Japan first, US/Australia, then UK/Europe, so it's a fairly safe bet yours is somewhere in the N204-N219 range since N225 belongs to the 12A HB Cosmo/Luce for September 1983 and they probably used numbers N220-224 for development
Based on this (and I could be mistaken, take it with a grain of salt), I'd say it is quite unlikely yours is a 1983 model. Also, the 6xxxxx cars are identified in the USDM parts catalogs as 1982 Models, with production being May 1981 to June 1982. July 1982 is when the 1983 models began. It doesn't give a specific date for the changeover...
i agree, however it seems like the EU models, if they were on the same 6xxxxx series as the US, might have been made after the US models start the 1983 7xxxxx model year.
there are plenty of examples where Mazda is building different model year versions of the same car for different markets at the same time
actually best way to tell a Blue 1982 vs 1983 is that 1982 is U2 Stardust Blue, and 1983 is U6 Misty Blue
the fuel door looses the lock and key too.
i agree, however it seems like the EU models, if they were on the same 6xxxxx series as the US, might have been made after the US models start the 1983 7xxxxx model year.
there are plenty of examples where Mazda is building different model year versions of the same car for different markets at the same time
actually best way to tell a Blue 1982 vs 1983 is that 1982 is U2 Stardust Blue, and 1983 is U6 Misty Blue
the fuel door looses the lock and key too.
That's also possible, but I have no concrete data to either confirm or refute it. All I can really say it was the 80s, mistakes were made, stuff got weird and they didn't really get it straightened back out until the RX-8.
i agree, however it seems like the EU models, if they were on the same 6xxxxx series as the US, might have been made after the US models start the 1983 7xxxxx model year.
there are plenty of examples where Mazda is building different model year versions of the same car for different markets at the same time
actually best way to tell a Blue 1982 vs 1983 is that 1982 is U2 Stardust Blue, and 1983 is U6 Misty Blue
the fuel door looses the lock and key too.
Mine is Misty Blue by code and a fuel cap lock only
It is unfortunate that you do not get the door jamb birth date sticker.
I do not know what UK/EU setups were like, but NA model year 1982 cars had oil coolers under the radiator, MY1983 was the first year for the water-oil cooler mounted under the oil filter. MY1983 was also the first year for staked universal joints and a square diff pinion bolt pattern.
This is all circumstantial evidence and nothing that one could use as proof to some bored disinterested bureaucrat, but it provides at least some level of moral victory
States in the US sometimes assigned model year by when a car was first titled and not by production year, so we get this confusion over here too. I own a 9/83 production 1984, a 9/80 production 1981, and used to own a 12/84 (I think) production 1985. And just to be extra confusing, my first was a 3/80 production 1980, which meant it had some 1981 parts filtered in to it.
States in the US sometimes assigned model year by when a car was first titled and not by production year, so we get this confusion over here too. I own a 9/83 production 1984, a 9/80 production 1981, and used to own a 12/84 (I think) production 1985. And just to be extra confusing, my first was a 3/80 production 1980, which meant it had some 1981 parts filtered in to it.
after 1981 they can't the model year is in the vin number. however this leads to some fun stuff. because the idea of the model year is to goalpost safety and emissions standards for the government, it really does not have to do with the calendar year.
for instance the US model 1993 Rx7's "P", were all assembled between December of 1991 and May or June of 1992. so there were no 1993 model year Rx7s made in the calendar year of 1993...
it happened again in 1995, Mazda made the first batch at the "normal" time. when it became clear there was not going to be a 1996 model for North America, they made another batch of 1995's in December of 1995 still S vin, so the cars didn't even get to the US until February 1996, at the earliest.
it probably overlaps the JDM 1996 models for a couple weeks. Mazda can (and does!) makes different specs at the same time. if you go back to 1985, i think they were making the FB and the FC together
Neat, the fun part of this is that Mazda hasn't really changed the way they build cars. except for 2022, things just more according to plan.
Mazda's factory in Hiroshima is state of the art, even in the 1980's. they can build 7 or 8 different models on the same assembly line, and or break out a special model for a special run.
The factory is also a lot more granular than we are, we just says S1,S2 and S3, but the factory can go by model and market also (MSC Code)
so for Mazda to make the 10/1980-8/1983 JDM model, US 1983 model and the EU 1982 models at the same time is par for the course.
05-25-23, 01:58 PM
