FEARED7

Cam you are makin me sick man! I have been working on my SA for the past 2 weeks trying to get it running before my FD's rear end falls slap out of it!!!

The FD engine is in, T04E 62-1/ P trim is in, got all the block off plates done last night, gotta hook up the Wolf 3d to all the engine sensors, injectors and yada yada yada. I have a huge intercooler that Grey give me off of an air compressor. After that, all the plumbing and exhaust! Then it should be close to start up. I will try and get some pictures soon...

Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

setzep

Haha, get that SOB going!

Using the Wolf again?! I thought you smashed that sucker after the last engine went?

Pic's would be awsome

sammycook

I have an 85 GSL-SE and would like to put a 3rd Gen Twin Turbo into my car. What would I need for the conversion and are there any kits? Who sells them, etc?

Thanks.

fatboy7

Lol, here's a 17 page thread about everthing you need to do to get a turbo 13B in your FB. I know its tough, but humor us, and read at least the first couple pages. That will explain most of the swap, then when you have a better idea of what it takes, you can ask something a bit more specific.

oh, BTW there is no kit, its all custom, and it takes a lot of time, and a lot of money.

kuhlrx7

anybody got the math equation to figure exhuast temp drop for distance from source(turbo)? I am trying to get all the tin sound out of the exhuast. and need a small bullet muffler to do it.

setzep

I don't know but if you ever figure it out I'd like to know. My car is too loud to be driven on the streets everyday (doesn't stop me though )

kuhlrx7

setzeps, no one with the equation so I did it the easy way. I had some one with a moded t2/ 3inch exhuast put one on a lift and used a temp sensor. in theory heres how it can be done; one 24~inch muffler in front of the axle this point was 1200-1300 degress at rev. I am going with a 23 1/2 inch dynomax race bullet ( wlk-24219 ) there its rated at 1500+. then where the old cat was located the meter reads 1300-1460 degress there is space for up to a 20inch muffler I was thinking about using another bullet ( wlk-24222 ) there but the temp is close to the rating so the other choices are, 1) edelbrock 304 or victor series rebuildable cermic packed rated at 1800 degress 2) borla stainless packed 3) dynatech split flow (76-014302) another stainless steel packed. 4) moroso sprial fow race muffler. 5) other high heat muffler ( if anybody kows of others please add) I am probly going to try the small dynomax up front and see how it works out (its cheep). it should also produce the right tone. a resonated tip should also help.

setzep

Someone has done some homework! Thanks and let us know what you decide on and if it works or not

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Hello Rotor nuts, I havent been on here for a while now, wanted to say hi, and tell you guys how I was doing. First, on the note of an exhaust, I was going to go with a large magnaflow muffler. I know they have a whole series for racing purposes ( a store called truechoice sells them in my area) and are steel wool packed, which should take some heat, plus they make some really fat long ones to absorb serious sound. Any way, I Finnaly got in my motor! I had to do all the monster street porting, had it dynamically balanced, got two brand new housings, stock apex seals, and 3rd gen staionary gears. Put it all together, AND for anyone doing the first gen turbo swap, if you are using a first gen front cover, the 89-91 waterpump dosent fit perfectly, it is bigger and the bottom bolt hits the cover. I had to grind down the nub on the bottom, and then it fit on nicely. I also put in the transmission, turbocharger, and had a custom driveshaft made for $33.00!! I just took in my first gen driveshaft and the front section of a turbo II, and they welded the two together and balanced it for 33.00! They did a great job, perfect welds, the shop is called DRIVELINE 1 , its here in Columbus Ohio. On the transmission, of course I modded the shift tower, using a first gen extension and all that great stuff. All that is left is the rest of the exhaust, intercooler piping, and the fuel lines. AND IT WILL BE DONE!! hahaha, I finally will be up there with you guys!! Not sure how much HP at this point, with the stock turbo on there, ...maybe 285? I want more, but that will get me started. Oh yeah the car is still primer, could'nt afford paint yet. But hey, at least its WIDE as hell and sticks to the road while beat'n the annoying people. Sorry for the long message, I'm sure I'm going to have a few questions in the future.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I should read before I post, sorry, I see the water pump issue has already been addressed. The 87-88 dont have this problem because they are a smaller size, and do not have any clearance problems.

kuhlrx7

gtorx7 the manaflow may not be the best choice they are rated at 800 - 1100 degress depending on what one you have chose and are not warranted for use on a rotary per their tech dept. they also said they are fiberglass packed an only have thin layer of stainless wool. I would sugest one with a temp rating of at least 1200 higher would be better. this would be for the rear muffler correct? look for higher temp rating for res/pre mufflers. for a rear muffler a layer of stanless wool with ceramic glass will give a deeper tone. you will need a premuffler or two if you do not want the drone and the tin sound. they will help give you the pop or crackel . are you using 2.5 or 3 inch pipe?

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the info, I thought it was all stainless. I already have a 5 zigen fireball rear muffller, so the magna flow would be for the pre-silencer. I know the fireball will not take the heat, but dont care about it, I bought it last year when it was non-turbo and might as well use it. the exhaust is all three inch, have a racing beat 3'' downpipe, and 3" fireball. So yes it is all 3" system that I need. Thanks for the help, fill me in on anything else.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I have a big question, I'm starting on the wiring tonight and am using a stock re-mapped computer, and a stock TII harness. The only thing bothering me is that alot of sensors will not be hooked up, aka; the electronic metering pump, air pump, electronic boost control, and the air pump control valve. are any of these things being disconected going to cause a code (of course it will) that may prevent the motor from running normally? or will the engine go to some kind of self-preserve mode, and not let things run smoothly. Can I just close loop these sensors with a jumper wire, or maybe a resistor to trick the ecu? Thanks for anyone who writes back.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

If you are using an s5ECU, I think you are out of luck, and you MUST use all the sensors.

WanKeL FD RX-7

iTrader: (7)

On S4 TII J-spec engine, my 12A cover would fit pretty good right ? I don'»t worry about OMP, i'll run premix.

For the engine mount 13B in to 12A conversion, does anybody have pics or a good explanation of what to bend or drill to put the 13B in a proper position.

Thanks

Max

LTProject

just buy the mount from mazdatrix or racingbeat and call it a day.

Gregs

ok heres my plan for my fb..

its an 81 12a automatic...

i am plannning on getting a series 5 turbo motor..

will my 12a front cover and mount fit the tii? or will i need to use a 13b front cover and mount either way i have both....

im planing on using a gsl-se tranny which i already have...

will it bolt up without tranny crossmember fabbing or driveshaft fabbing?..

and i was told to use the counterweights from the se as well and the oilpan.......

let me know if my quiestions are to straightforeward..(sp).. i just wanna have this all planned out before i spend a bunch of money on it..

-greg

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Hey a guy doing a TII swap in a automatic! I dont feel so lonely anymore! Seriously, on the mounting of the transmission you should be okay because the 81's use a 3-speed auto which mounts in the same location as the standard's. If you were like me, and had a 84-85 auto, the transmission mounts further back, so I had to weld on custom mounts.
On the front cover you can use a 12a cover, with a GSL-se oil pan, but the electronic metering pump cannot be used, and it is hard to find a place to drill and tap a oil return line. ( I did a 12a front cover also, but removed the stock oil metering pump entirely, and put the dump tube to where the pump used to be. Then ran pre-mix) A much easier way is the GSL-se front cover, which acually has a spot perfect for a turbo oil dump tube. And with either front cover, you will have to grind down the waterpump bolt nub to make enough clearance to fit.
Keep in mind that there is no way to remove the electronic metering pump from the computer. So if you use a 12a, or SE cover with the factory pump from either one, you still have to set the electronic on aside on a bracket, still plugged in. NZ convertible told me the bad news about this.
Oh yeah you will not need a custom driveshaft, as the auto you have is the same length as the standard tranny. As is the spline, if you use a SE tranny.
If you use a tranny from a SE the best way is get a rear counterweight from a automatic turbo (jap. version only), or maybe a non-turbo 89-91. And then use a aftermarket light weight flywheel for a 84-85 SE, this way the balance is keep in the motor, yet you still can use a SE clutch and assembly.
You could use the stock SE flywheel, but the rotors in the SE are much heavier, and so is the counter balance. Making alot more vibration in the engine of a lighter TII.

Personally I'd just go to a TII tranny, and have a turbo II front u-joint welded to a stock 1st gen driveshaft. It cost me $33.00 to have that done.
Most important read this entire Forum and everything I said and more will be explained.

Good-luck!

Gregs

i have a 13b front cover from an se... you said something about the computer and removing the emp from it... i will be going carbuerated blowthrough.. thus not needing the ecu and stuff.. will that matter with my setup..

-greg

fatboy7

Since your going blow-through, you can use the -SE oil metering pump, or premix.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Hey Fatboy7, how did you make the intercooler piping/throttle body connection like that? I'm in that area on my car right now, and was going to have a machine shop make the flange and then weld on a 2.5" pipe, to make it straight out, instead of a 90 degree bend like the factory. I assume that is your car in the pic below your name? Thanks

fatboy7

Here's a larger shot.

There's more pics here.

Its custom ... I made most of it myself. The flange I cut out from 3/8" mild steel, the part that mates the TB to the 2.5" pipe started out as a piece of sheet metal. After doing all kinds of calculations, and drawing a pattern out in Solid Works (a CAD program), I cut it from 16 gauge steel. I made some smallish mistakes that required me to grind parts down, but all in all the pattern was close enough. Then I bent the rounded corners over a thick steel pipe until I got the shape right. I then welded the two ends together making a 'pipe' of sorts. Because I didn't have the tools to drill around 20-25 holes in the 3/8" steel, I had the flange drilled out and the rest of it welded together at a machine/fab shop. Probably cost around $100-$110 for several attempts, material in excess, and the labor for the machining.

If you attempt anything like this, the biggest obstacle is the oil fill tube. The 13BT throttle body is very close to the engine, unlike the 13B-RE, and 13B-REW. Thats why you don't see any cheap aftermarket elbows, like those for the 3rd gen engine. Anyway, the oil fillup tube is about 4" out, almost directly in front of the TB. The 2.5" tube I designed to be flush with the top and firewall points of the 'triangle' that makes up the TB. The way I have it, there is barely enough room for the silicone connector -- it touches the oil fill tube.

CheddaKing

My contribution to the almighty sticky...check this out All you 12A swappers, i think it will clear up some front cover confusion

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=221790

woops, missed the last couple posts here, seems this has already/finally been addressed.

Damn, i thought i had something useful here, o well, maybe next time

NOTA V6

Help!

I have dumped my car off at a top notch local tuner to finish off the job for me.

They are telling me that the GSL-SE front engine cover/mount setup that everyone seems to be using is making the engine/tranny combo fit in the car at an angle that is not paralell to the frame rails.

Has anyone heard of this problem before? Will this affect anything? What the shop is telling me is that the gyroscopic center of the engine/tranny won't be paralell with the center axis of the car.

Please e-mail me at work and cut and paste your reply here if you have an answer for me. jlinnihan@velocityexp.com

I need info ASAP. The shop charges $89/hr, and is telling me a fabricated crossmember for the engine mount will take 4-5 hours...

Thanks guys,

kuhlrx7

jim I do not know if this tuner is corect or not. I do know this type of setup has been used for more than 20 years with the 12a to 13b conversion. the mounting points are in the same position on the cover on all 1st gen rx7s 12a or 13b. curently there are about 15 here who have recently completed thier swap with out this issue or it being a problem with at least that many in progress. yours was already a 13b being a gslse. so I got to say and be dumb and ask is this top notch tuner a rotary experanced one and who is it?? if it is crooked and he is rotary experanced, what does he say the problem realy is??? mine does look a little off looking at the area on the front where the mount is but does not apeer to be a problem even so. it does look straight from below and from above. much like fatboys engine bay pic in this thread. are you sure this guys honest? that would be a lot of money for a new bracket. your car was not wrecked was it? since mazda designed/used this front cover for the gslse on the 13b in 84 and the same mounting bracket IMO this would be a non issue. I would stay with your set up and look at the tuner like he was crazy. countless people and companys have done the 12a to 13b swap and 20 + years of doing it I think if this was a problem it would have been came up before. yours was already a 13b to start with so if there is a problem it can not be on the front of the engine. did you change the rear transmission mount? did the output shaft line up in the right spot ? if it did you may need to change tuners.