Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

heres a map I got from a wolf3d shop over in Australia. Its made for 550cc prim and 1600cc secondaries.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

i hope this is a joke

nyt

iTrader: (1)

first off, did you look at the fuel map?

youll be maxing injectors at like 5 psi

filling in one value per load range is not a working map

post start enrich is same value across the board

throttle pump doesnt even look like they tried, looks like they gave up after idle

engine temp compensation looks like itll actually work, im impressed..

air temp compensation is going in the WRONG DIRECTION. they take fuel out as it gets colder.. dear lord

no voltage compensation

ignition map will work, very safe up top, very ugly in vacuum

advancing ignition while the engine is cold is not always the brightest idea either.

split drops to 5 degrees at higher rpms... i wouldnt say thats too safe.


please look at maps you post them. there are people on the forum that will blindly put maps in their car and run them.

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

I'm not quite sure how the secondary staging works on that map. Seems almost exclusively rpm based? Full secondaries by 4500 rpm for rpm staging. Almost nothing for load based staging?

How do you tell the V4 which method to use, btw? Is there a setting for load, rpm or combination on the Hancontroller or SW?

Gonna miss that Handcontroller, but I traitored out and swapped my V3 for a Haltech

Chris Ng

You are now on the naughty list...

Go WOLF GO!

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, sorry Chris!!
No more MSN discussions about how to cold idle

It's not going far. My friend is getting it, so I will still be playing with that damm handcontroller, I'm sure...

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

Yea well you might think its a bad map but it makes my car happy. Never has it run so well before. Silky smooth idle and doesnt hesitate when the secondaries kick in. I love this map, its kick ***.. and ive been doing some datalogging and AFRs stay in much better range than ever on your map.

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

speaking of maps and talking **** about them.. here is what Chris had to say about your map.

"I would not recommend you use this map

at all! The timing is very scary and the fuel

goes up and down in very strange ways!

You will end up damaging your engine if

you use it.

Send me your log files! So I can help you.

Chris"

nyt

iTrader: (1)

apparently chris doesnt know how to read the STAGING section. again its beyond me how someone that doesnt understand staging is head of wolf usa. i guess **** like this is the reason the last head of wolf got so pissed he just left.

the timing is scary? OHMY LOOK 45 DEGREES ON A TIMING MAP OH NO.. its called VACUUM. its not going to blow a motor in VACUUM. talk about scary timing? This map drops the split to 5.

as for the map you posted, the staging is terrible. you will be maxing the primaries almost the whole time youre in boost. secondary injectors are firing at 20% until 3000 rpm when they ramp up to 100% by 4000rpm.

in the staging load map, secondaries are only at 5% at 4psi, 9% at around 10, and 15% around 15... this is because the primaries are so maxed out its not funny. they will be static open. it looks like someone tried to actually tried to tune this car using the staging map and not fuel map.

again i ask, please stop posting this garbage. youre only hurting the community, thank you.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

the v4 uses both rpm and load based. with this map the primary injector values are so high and so far passed 100% duty usage, that the load map for the secondaries looks lower. it looks like they used the load/staging map to tune the car *laugh*. theres no compensation in this map at all for where you need more fuel in midrange, and less up top either.

it starts adding extra fuel at high boost based on the load map. (secondaries will start coming in at 3000rpm. at 4000rpm and up its 100% in the rpm map so it will be using 100% of the values in the load trable).

you can see at load band 43, its 2% of secondaries are on.
50 is 5
57 is 7
64 is 7.8
71 is 9
79 is 13
86 is 14.8
93 is 21.9
100 is 44.9 (big jump *laugh*)
107 is 100 (laugh, guess we want to flood the engine if we go over 20psi eh?)

here is a table below, it consists of boost on the left, and rpm that the primary injectors go static (100% duty cycle) on the right. enjoy

02psi - 9000rpm
05psi - 7000rpm
07psi - 6000rpm
09psi - 5000rpm
11psi - 5000rpm
13psi - 4600rpm
15psi - 4400rpm
17psi - 4000rpm
20psi - 3700rpm
23psi - 3700rpm

I must say, my favorite part about this map is how it takes out fuel as the air gets colder!!! thats brilliant!!!

(and remember all the comments I made about people who will just load any crap into their car? =])

and netseven, since youre so big on taking chris's word for things, hows your datalogging?

*falls over laughing*

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

Stop posting your garbage with insane timing.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

Excellent retort. really it is. my timing is hardly insane and is definitely anything but aggressive in boost. Please learn a thing or 2 about tuning before you post anymore. I hate to be a ***** but your lack of knowledge is really showing with wonderful threads such as this one.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

15ms at 8000rpm? injector timming.. is that possible

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I see it now.

So basically, if I wanted to run Load-only staging, I would set the rpm bands all to 100%. That way it would use 100% of whatever I had set for the load staging.

I find the manual is a bit lacking in explaining this

The purpose of this is to act as a rev limit of sorts. The engine gets flooded with fuel at 8k or higher. It would just bog. My map is set up simlar.

-----
As far as ignition timing is concerned, I had my car professionally tuned by Steve Kan (pluto) from Gotham Racing. Under boost my timing map for 94 octane is almost identical to nyt's. In that area I see no fault with his map.

The main difference is that Steve ramps the timing up after peak torque. This theory has been discussed at lenght on the Forum.

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

Uhhh thats 16ms at 23psi of boost... After talking to them about that cuz I thought it was a little much they said thats actually what it needs at that much boost. Chris also said the same thing.

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

Why is it that every tuner I show your map to always says its crazy? Maybe your just a way better tuner than all the shops around... with your backyard tuning skills. I mean **** lets run 45 advanced on all NA cars because **** they never see boost so why not just squeez out every bit of power we can and screw the engine. Personally, I find my car idles much better at 15 advanced than the 45 that your map was set on. It just purrs the way I have it set right now, very smooth. With the 45 advanced the car was a bit shaky and idle wasnt as steady, and yes I did mess witht he fuel both adding and removing and that solved nothing. Retarding the timing helped idle quality a lot.

Anways im no tuner, I just prefere to listen to someone that does this for a living and has their own shop rather than some backyard mechanic. I will be taking my car to R.P. motorsports to get my car tuned. They specailize in wolf3d, and Chris Greene actually came up here not too long ago and was teaching him how to tune rotary engines with the split and the stagged injection.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

they run that ms the entire load band.

its getting maxed out at the rpms in my post that i listed above.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

no its not possible. an engine cycle of a rotary only lasts 7.5ms at 8000rpm.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

1: I never told you to run 45advance at idle. I even posted my maps with 20 for idle. I told you it worked for ME. On a STOCK PORT HIGH MILES MOTOR.

2: 45 in vacuum is FINE. its running less than 30 under LOAD. Posting replies to you hurts my head. I don't know how you can know so little and try to argue so much?

3: I told you, my map was for a STOCK PORTED CAR AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO ADJUST IT SINCE YOU HAVE A STREET PORT. I'm sorry I didn't realize the only technique you know is loading maps and not changing anything.

4: If Chris Green can't understand a staging map (which your post earlier indicated) I wouldn't put so much faith in anyone hes 'taught'

5: Keep listening to your so called tuners. Keep running 16ms on your primary injectors because thats 'what they need' to run at 23psi. Here's a tip tho, at 5000rpm a full cycle only lasts 12 miliseconds. At 8000 it lasts 7.5. The map you posted is BARELY USING 15% OF YOUR SECONDARY INJECTORS AT 15PSI!!!! ARE YOU TRYING TO BLOW YOUR MOTOR?!?! ****!! IT TAKES OUT FUEL IN THE COLD!!! ARE YOU BLIND?!

I'm done here. If this doesn't reach you, you're hopeless. I can only try so much.

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

Yea well I see it takes out fuel when its cold, so they screweed up. Your map not only used 45 advanced at idle, but ANY time I was cruising or accerlating slighty it was STILL in 45 advanced. I actually heard a little pinging once when I was idling and at a certain point of holding the acclerator. Which makes me think it was probably pinging during dring also because thats much bigger load than just idling and holding an rpm.

Like I said I plan on getting my car tuned via RP motorsports. I dont run 23 PSI, and dont ever plan to on this turbo. Max im going to run is 15psi, and just 10psi on the street.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

HAHAHAH PINGING AT IDLE. oh god thats rich.

on another note, getting your car tuned is a smart idea. especially dyno/wb tuning..

time to go ice my foot.. stupid ups dropped on it.. wonder if its broken

DigitalSynthesis

Heh... I have to say I'm in total agreement with NYT on this one... I'm a Haltech user and at the very least our maps are runnable but with what Wolf USA is putting out this makes my complaints with Haltech seem very minor by comparison.

I don't know what you guy's problem with running 45 deg advanced at idle / low load is. If its smooth, its smooth. And knowing NYT, running 23 pounds of boost is where you're gonna hurt your engine. The fact that he got a stock block running on that much boost, reliably, says volumes. The fact that you are whining about idle advance and maxing out your injectors says volumes to your insanity. Please check your technical facts before just tossing a map at the general public because "it ran my car so it must be good". That's total BS. NYT's map makes both technical and practical sense, despite your nitpicky whining. Your map makes a mockery of all tuning wisdom. And you haven't defended your map technically very well at all, which makes me wonder about your complete understanding of these things. So, I *was* considering buying a Wolf to replace my Haltech, but screw that. If I do, I'm going to check it out with other knowledgable Wolf users and probably disregard Wolf USA's "tech support" entirely if possible. But I doubt, now, that that's even going to happen.

Please, again, please, if you post crap, don't defend it, say you're sorry, fix it, and move on. This just makes you look worse.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

Heh thanks for the support. I hate to get off topic, but if you're thinking of going wolf over haltech, I have a haltech car and a wolf car, i can probably give you some info.

as for reliability, and ecu issues, wolf wins. i haven't had any problems with mine. it functions beautifully and does everything I want, except datalogging (my wbo2 unit does, so its fine with me). the support for getting it repaired/replaced is much better. worst case they send you a new one from australia, it took like 4-5 days for me to get mine in the first place.

The only downside is, there arent that many people knowledgable with wolf to tune it properly. the injector staging isnt as straight forward as haltech, same with the injector pump maps, etc... its a little trickier to get everything right..

as for tuning, i dont like how haltech has rpm bands, in my opinion they should be load bands, with rpm as the x axis. would make things easier. this doesnt really matter tho, its still a breeze to tune.. 500rpm incremends are a little lacking sometimes, id like at least 250rpm increments. maybe they addressed this in the new e series.

all in all, the wolf has a bit more flexibility than haltech, and i havent seen any issues that a lot of haltech guys, including myself have dealt with. in ny a few years ago a batch of e6k's were floating around that were all messed up.. screwy reluctors, just doing weird things in general, losing configs, etc.. i also recall people having lots of trouble with the e6x's and e11's so i might be a little jaded, but at least there is a presence of wolf in the usa. While I might not be a fan of chris's tuning knowledge, at least hes trying and has kept up the presence of a wolf usa, which i think he should be commended for. could you imagine having to deal with people like netseven all day and keeping your cool? =]

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

LOL! Some posts went missing

I'm more impressed with someone running 20psi on pump gas, what with a clean engine bay.

Haltech vs. Wolf: I debated Wolf vs Haltech for a long time, and decided to upgrade my V3 to a Haltech E6X this time around. Personally, I think the V4 is better than the E6 series, but E6X is better than V3 and I got a really good price.

Spent 400 bucks on Steve Kan for nothing

I'll miss the handcontroller, that is for sure.

I've gotten used to HalwinX now, should be fine to tune. Wolf software seens really nice, though.

Another guy here is getting the V4, so we can compare

nyt

iTrader: (1)

hand controller is great. i love being able to tune while i datalog with 2 things at same time =]