Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

I've been hearing the E6X is having problems with ignition. There are some people that claim they actually blew their engine because of it. Thats why there are so many interested in the E6K right now. Watch out.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i heard that too, but e6ks had those issues also like i said, i def saw some bad batches out there that couldnt even start cars. e6s was the real last reliable one i knew of, but you had to use msd 8509s cuz it didnt have any internal reluctors. but, i also saw some e6s's that might have had the internal reluctors, because they ran fine without it.. there was lots of stuff going back and forth between haltech, who knows the real story...


i heard they were coming out with like an e8s or some **** at one point, was supposed to be new gen based on the s, but could have been a rumor

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

I hear ya. When we installed the 6X in my friends car, we made sure to keep the CAS harness separate from the main harness. He has not been plagued by any ignition issues.

Heck, my V3 Wolf had troubles there, too...wonder if that has anything to do with the FC CAS, in general.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

fc cas is fine. i use mine unmodified except for removing some teeth. no problems at all. most of the problems are caused by people not using a fully shielded harness. i also have ferrite beads clipped on just to be safe. fd is nice and easy, cuz its always at 65 degrees =]

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

My CAS is unmodified and if I run it like Chris says to, then I never get any signal errors and car runs perfect. Just follow the diagram on the wolf3d site with the stock CAS and it works great. At first I had to place a resister between 2 CAS wires because it wasnt picking it up at cranking speed, but since then I removed it for some reason it works without it now.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

if you wired into the stock harness, it should be shielded. the wofl also has a very nice shielded harness for it

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

Does anyone really understand the interaction between %RPM and %LOAD in the staged injection folder and thier relationships to the main fuel map?

I'm going crazy with this one!

rotamotive

Mr Nyt,Ill excuse your ignorance if youll excuse my arrogance...
I am the one that sent netseven that map as a start up map and by his comments and previous posts,has successfully done so.
Before you critisize other peoples work....open your eyes before you open your mouth...
The fuel modifier for the air temp is turned off...
The transient was set to map sensor...not tps
The accell enrichment was done with the hand controller not the laptop...
The safe tune [ignition map] is because fuel in Australia is not stable [octane fluctuation]
The way the staging works is you MULTIPLY the load by the rpm...eg. on that map 7500 rpm @ 79% load would equal [secondary bank only] 11.3% x 99.6% =.113 x .996 = 11.25%
1680cc secondaries x 2 =3360 x 11.25% =378cc from the secondary bank + ~80% duty cyle of the primaries + 500cc + 500cc=1000cc
1000cc x 80% = 800cc primaries + 378cc secondaries = 1.178 Ltrs per minute of fuel @ 79% load 7500rpm. This is an example of injector flow rates @ 40 psi...we were running 75 psi so obviously these numbers will increase...

If you need proof this map works...it was in an RX2 on pump fuel on 14psi and ran 11.1 @ 125mph with a 1.5 60foot. he backed off
This was the cars first outing and the drivers first time ever racing...

And to answer some of your questions from the quote...
The split made more power @ 5* than 10* and will only cause a problem if the trailing fires first.
The Voltage compensation is not needed as the electricals were re-done and VERY consistant.
Advancing the map while air temps are cold is safe ....advancing timing when air temps are hot is dangerous.
Post start enrichment works fine so no need to re-adjust...

I hope this post has taught you something mr nyt...

nyt

iTrader: (1)

Thats great and all, drag cars have run faster than 9s with a locked timing dizzy and a carb. doesnt mean you can drive these cars happily on the streets. these people are running their cars on the streets in varying weather conditions. not having air temperature compensation is asking for a blown motor. While you can use MAP as the transient fine on drag car, drive through rush hour with one. see how well the car reacts.

Why dont you put this car on a dyno and see how ugly the a/f curve will be. you have no compensation whatsoever for the extra fuel thats needed at the cars torque peak.

And thank you, I know how the staging maps work.

Do you honestly think the primary runners are flowing as much air as the secondary runners? Why would you want to push such a rich mixture in through them, and such a lean mixture in through the secondaries?

You say this car ran 14psi. Do you realize how far past maxed out your primary injectors are at 14psi on this map? You realize this is a rotary motor and not a piston motor, right? Because it doesnt look like you quite understand how injector duty cycle is calculated.


Please pay attention now I dont want to lose you.

Fuel injector open duration is measured in milliseconds. 1/1000th of a second.

Duty Cycle is a percentage of how long the injector stays open, over the total amount of time in the cycle.

Rotary engines fire each rotor once every RPM. Pistons fire once every TWO rpm.

Because of this, Piston engines have TWICE the amount of time per cycle. Meaning if you leave both injectors open for the same amount of time and its 50% duty cycle on a piston motor, it will be 100% duty cycle on a rotary at the same RPM.

Now for an example. We will use 6000rpm:
Since were all dealing in seconds, and not minutes, 6000rpm is equivalent to 100 revolutions per second.

So, we have your motor, spinning 100 times in a second. Each rotor fires ONCE per revolution.

There are 1000 milliseconds in a second.

To see how long each cycle will be in milliseconds, we divide 1000 by 100, and have the result in milliseconds.

at 6000rpm, each cycle lasts 10 (TEN) milliseconds.


Now, on a PISTON motor, each piston fires once per TWO revolutions. There is a correction factor of 2 involved now. at 6000 RPM on a piston motor, you have TWENTY milliseconds of time between ignition events. Granted, a lot of that time the intake valves are closed, and there are lots of other factors, but thats much more of an advanced topic. I'll try to keep it simple today. Back to the rotary.

Using the same math, at 8000rpm: 1000 / (8000 / 60) = ~7.5 milliseconds.

Now, you realize, in your maps at 14 pounds of boost (slightly less than load band 86 if youre using the internal map sensor without changing the voltage calibrationt able for it) you would be firing your primary injectors at about 13.25 miliseconds

Now, since it seems you dont understand that motors will need more and less fuel at different rpms under the same amount of load, it makes it easy for this little excersize, as I can use the same value (13.25, i interpolated down a little bit, for your favor).


So, 14 psi, youre firing primary injectors at 13.25 miliseconds. at 6000rpm, if it was possible, youd be firing at 133% duty cycle.

at 8000rpm, youd be firing them at 176% duty cycle.

Now, lets look at your staged fuel injection. at 6000, and 8000 your RPM map is at 100%. Makes it easy. For your sake i wont interpolate the correction map for load, I'll use the high value you have at load band 86 of 14.8%. The only reason such a low percentage even works at all is because youre so far past your maximum duty cycle anyway.

13.25 * .148 = 1.961

so, 14 psi:
at 8000rpm: you will be firing your primary injectors at 176% and your secondaries at 25%. your primaries will actually be static at this point.

at 6000rpm: you will be firing your primary injectors at 133% and your secondaries at 20%. your primaries will actually be static at this point.

Just because it works, doesnt mean its the right way to do things. You will still be flowing more of your fuel through your primary injectors than your secondaries. Your primary runner mixtures will be VERY rich, and your secondary will be lean.

anyway, as i said in a previous post:


here is a table below, it consists of boost on the left, and rpm that the primary injectors go static (100% duty cycle) on the right. enjoy

02psi - 9000rpm
05psi - 7000rpm
07psi - 6000rpm
09psi - 5000rpm
11psi - 5000rpm
13psi - 4600rpm
15psi - 4400rpm
17psi - 4000rpm
20psi - 3700rpm
23psi - 3700rpm

*sigh* ive wasted enough time posting this, I have real work to do now. I'm sure theres plenty i havent covered but oh well.