BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

My A/C need a recharge. Where to get my A/C system recharge with R12 in S. CA? And also does anyone use the R12 substitue and is it any good?

Thanks

BC

jhammons01

I use the R134a, my system blows between 35° and 42° F on the highway. It blows around 50° in traffic. Yes, I have a thermometor in the vents. And this is why. The schrader valve where I fill it leaks. so about every 6 months or so I have to put another can in. The cans are 3-5 bux so I don't mind. But I sometimes feel that I am just being picky and wnating the air really cold or has the coolant leaked out again. That is why I keep the thermometor in the vents.

You can get a retro fit kit for about 40 bux at kragen. Get the one with the guages.

Do a search in 2nd ge on R134a and you get all kinds of info. one thing that I'll tell you here to peek your interest. You must not mix the 134 with the 12 becuase of the chlorine in the 12. If it is allowed to mix with other gases it becomes a free chlorine wich is ultra corrosive. It will eat your system from the inside out. The chlorine molecule will have contaminated your oil and seperator so it is important that you fill and purge a few times. Also add some new oil to your system.

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for your info:

I have read many threads and decide to get R12 instead of retrofit to run R134. I am sure somewhere they still recharge R12. What about the R12 substitude? Anyone tried that?

BC

ReZ311

iTrader: (4)

You can still get R12. It's very expensive though. R12 will blow colder than R134. I would not convert to R134.

I think R12 is like $50 lb or something. Your car should take about 2 lbs. It should be in the FSM.

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

Do you know any local shop do that? I don't mind to pay more for R12 because out system is design for R12 and I do not want any potential problem if I convert to R134. Thanks

BC

jhammons01

That's good idiology but what if there is a leak in your system?? And that is why it is not allowing the compressor to kick on??

I'm tellin' ya why people don't want to convert to R134a in scientific explanations. I have given you The ACTUAL reason for failure.....not just, its a black box of VooDoo scary magic, don't touch it.

This very same way of thinking is what killed Ethynol in the 70s. Old V8s were all carboned up by running leaded gaselines. When ethynol was introduced many of the old engines siezed due to the softening of the carbon by the ethynol. Everybody said that ethynol was "Bad" for your engine and wouldn't allow it any car. Cause and effect= hyptheses. Hillbilly hypotheses are about as useful as......

Look dude, it's a simple compressor. Just like in your shop. It compresses a gas rather than oxygen. The gas if 5 x greater in violotilty than air. whereas it gets 5 times hotter when compressed and 5 times colder when allowed to expand. You have seals to keep the gas in a inclosed system during the compression and relaease cycles. You have a canister to seperate the compressor oil from the Freon and allow the oil to return to the compressor.

If any of the above mentinoned items are already weak from being 15 years old It won't matter what you put in there. It will come back out soon. IF you are really going to keep this car for years you would be interested in replacing the canister and changing the oil before re-charging it. That canister has 15 years of metal shavings in it. Now to fix it right, you'll spend $1000 bux.....on a $1500 car.

The retro fit kit is $40 bux at Kragen

GUITARJUNKIE28

i found this in another thread:
http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com/

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Stay away from the substitutes like freeze 12 and such. It is a blend of r134 and r142b.
Yes R12 is still the most effective freon on the market. A competent shop will first diagnose the problem. Which means, if it not blowing cold because it is low on freon or is there another issue.
By law in Ca, if a repair shop checks out your a/c and it is R12. If they find a leak in the system it must either be repaired or all the R12 taken out. there is no grey area for this in our state.
Of course a good shop is going to check for leaks after they verify that power is going to the compressor and there are no other issues at hand.
As far as retro-fitting to r134a. I have had this done on vehicles with great success. I am located on the central coast of Ca with tripple digit summers and my A/c blows cold.
the Fd's have a better compressor system than the earlier fb's do. What a shop would do that retro-fits is evacuate the system. Which means pull out all the old freon and oil. Put it on a vacuum so it holds pressure to verify for leaks. Then recharge with R134a. Even R134a has trippled in price.
so the answer is if you don't mind paying the extra for R12 do it. But remember R12 is not going to be around for much longer. Also recommend no matter what you do that the receiver drier be replaced.

jhammons01

^^^What he said!

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

I am too lazy to retrofit the system that's why I want to recharge with R12. If i can find a place that can do it I will pay for the price. If not, then I will retrofit the system. Have you got any problem with the retrofit A/C system?

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

You do not have to do the retrofit yourself. Any A/c place you take it to can retrofit the car to r134a, it is not a major thing. They either have their fittings or buy a kit from napa that comes with the fittings and oil to convert. Straight forward stuff.

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

From what I told by a mechanic, the R134a feron isn't cheap either. I will do more research with some local shops.

BC

ReZ311

iTrader: (4)

What the hell is wrong with you guys? He needs R12, not explanations on R134 conversions or WHY you have to change it. He doesn't need to do any of that **** you mentioned.

I don't live in his area, so I am not familiar with the shops down there. So, I'm going to suggest a shop out of his area!

There is a good shop in Simi Valley that recharged my AC with R12 in my Trans Am and it blows ice cold now. Most likely you have a blown o-ring on a fitting or a hose bursted.

Perry's Quality Auto repair. 805-527-4772. Simi Valley, CA. They are not a rotary shop either, just a competant mechanic that fixed my AC in a day. They were also nice with me on my diesel truck when I was having charging issues.

jhammons01

Sorry to butt in here. Maybe my advice is taken lightly or whatever......... RX7Doctor know his stuff.

First off the cans of 134a can be found on sale for $3.00. It takes about 2 cans if your system is completly empty. You're "mechanic" is going to tell you EVERTHING is expensive *winks eye*

That being said, I allready told you that a complete Retrofit kit is $40 bux at kragen or walmart. The retrofit takes about.........20 minutes and you may get you're forfinger and thumb dirty. The instructions are vague becuase the job is easy. Your looking for more info because of unsecurities. The retrofit kit comes with 2 cans of 134a, 1 can of oil, 1 hose w/psi gauge(make sure you get the one with the gauge), the adaptor fitting and instructions.

Cliff notes
*remove Schraeder valve from current upper/intake hose. (you'll see both of them and you need to focus on the upper)
*screw on new adaptor provided with kit
*put blue hose on adaptor, then first can of freon, screw in butterfly valve to pierce can then back it off to allow the gas to flow. The compressor should kick on at this time.
*now follow with the oil
*now follow with 2nd can (or howoever many it takes to reach the recommended psi)
*go drive and enjoy cold air.

If you just close your eyes and do what it said you'll be fine. The reason nobody gives you alot of details is becuase it is a simple procedure and there aren't any real details.......so you think everybody is being cryptic or guarded with their answers. The truth of the matter is the retrofit kit is as easy as you've been told.

Now go buy that kit and install it before I come over and do it for you.

jhammons01

And how much did they charge you???? Funny you say they were "nice" with you when you had charging issues with your truck. When I was in the repair business and a fat pigion came up with A/C problems we were really "nice". 20 minutes worth of work=150-200 bux..........that's fair.

All sarcasm aside. This forum is a DIY forum, the BBB can provide you with a list of competent repair facilities. Go there if you need a shop recommendation. If you come here you'll usually find RX7 enthuisast that will have info on how to fix a problem with your own two hands...........I may be wrong, but last I looked it was the RX7 Club.

I just can't see spending $100 bux just on freon to recharge with R12. Especially when it will be increasingly more difficult to source. not to mention the rising cost. I'd just as soon "TRY" the 134a retro kit for $40 bux and see if larger problems exhibit once the system is filled.

ReZ311

iTrader: (4)

Dude. Are you retarded? He needs a R12 recharge shop plus a diagnosis. He doesn't want R134 so stop ranting about it.

If you care, I paid $500 for everything done on my Trans Am. The problem was a broken OEM AC line from battery acid eating through it. I replaced all the seals and it's as good as new.

I would have been a dipshit to replace the whole system with R134 retrofits and still not fix the problem. The problem being a broken A/C line. The line itself was $150, plus the price of a new dryer, plus new R12 freon, plus new seals on all of the fittings, plus labor. It adds up.

I'm glad I paid $500. I'm nice and cool everyday. It must suck for everyone that doesn't have A/C in their daily driver. MY POINT BEING I HAVE AC THAT GOES WELL BELOW 32 deg F!!!!

I would not switch to R134. It's dumb and it didn't come with the car. It will not be as cold and you will not be satisfied. Why create extra work for yourself and still not solve the problem?

So, we have a whole thread on R134 bullshit when all he wants is his A/C fixed and charged.

jhammons01

I really don't understand your hostility. You have your way of doing things which is fine. You choose to take your vehicles in to the shop......That's just fine.

Let's analize this situation. He already has spoken to a mechanic. AND the very first post is... Seems to me He is asking about the substituions meaning R134a or Freeze 12. Can you see that??? or is that reading comprehension thing getting in the way?? So now the topic is, "what should he do".

You say run into a shop, I say retro fit. you state your reasons, I state my reasons. How does that make me retarded?? Now that you have started a pissing match I think your a dipshit for letting shops touch your vehicles in the first place. $500 bux to replace a line??? If that is how you choose to spend your hard earned cash....fine. But I would have been able to source that line through the Junkyards and fixed the system for about $100 bux.....myself. Or better yet, call the "hose man" and have a NEW one made and replaced it....again, myself.

As far as how cold your air blows??? 32°??? That means the core is getting colder than 32° for the air to come out that cold....I call Bullshit, cause you'd have a nice block of ice from the normal humidity in the air and the fan would not be able to blow past the block of ice. Not to mention the expansion chamber would have "snow" or ice inside blocking the R12 flow....commonly reffered to "freezing up". Do you have a thermometor in your vents??? I think you don't.........and don't make me post a pic of the Thermometer that I DO have in my vents. Cause you'll look like the fuktard you already are. Ssytems are designed to blow between 35° and 42° and they cycle btween two set points....the low side being 35°. When your Thermocouple senses 35° it opens a relay and your compressor kicks off.

You wanna **** anymore?? let me let you in on something....the systems that I work with are usually engineered to reach 12 kelvin. We take small A/C systems and retrofit them to work with other gasses to reach such temps. At 12 kelvin the molecules bouncing around stick to an array and do not come off until I tell them they can leave. Can you say "Free mean path" You may want to check into some cryogenics at your local community college prior to partaking in any further A/C discussions.

You want more??? I'm your A/C huckleberry.

ReZ311

iTrader: (4)

My point is, refer a damn shop.

ReZ311

iTrader: (4)

^^ Back to the original question. There is no substitute. The compressor was not made for R134. Retrofitting is stupid.

jhammons01

A compressor does not know what it is made for. the only thing that makes a difference is rate of permeation or "thinner" gasses. O-rings will allow permeation of certain gasses at a higher rate. However none of the "Freons" can be compered to heliums or Differentiated from each other based on premeation rates. As I pointed out earlier a compressor........compresses gas. Whether it be oxygen, freons, heliums make no difference in the mechanical properties of a compressor. What will make a difference is heat generated by compressing different gasses (none of the freons make any difference). The heat may be a requirement for changing a ceratin derometer.....to say a Viton o-ring. Viton stands up to heat much better than other durometers.

That black VooDoo box of magic just jumped up and bit you in the ****. And it's sad becuase an inclosed freon compressing system (commonly referred to as a refridgerator) has been around since the '20s why the VooDoo???? I've seen your post about suspension and turbo's and different things. Why does the A/C system elude your understanding?

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for everyone inputs. I understand it is not rocket science to do R134a retrofit. I am just too busy/lazy these day and want to get the A/C recharge with R12 to avoid going into retrofit the A/C to run R134a. If I end up finding my A/C is leaking, I will fit the system and do retrofit kit. As far as I know my car never get the A/C serviced since it was sold in 1993. I will get the A/C check first and determine what I have to do. My FD is not a daily car so I don't need to do it right away.

If anyone know any local shop that does R12 recharge in 626 area, please let me know.

This is a very good forum to get information on rotary car because everyone share the same enthusiasm. So be friendly and peace.

BC

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Per EPA, you have to pressure test the system prior to charging the system. Whoever did the work for ya took a short cut.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Buy me a vacuum pump and I will the labor for free plus $$$ for R-12 and other parts

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

Baldwin,

Take it over to Gazo's shop he will do it for you.

J & G Automotive. 818 957 7530

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

Thanks David