quick question on ticket
Thread Starter
Rotary enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
From: Yuba city California
quick question on ticket
sooo ya i just left my house and i barely hit 3rd gear and without knowing was going 40-45 in i guess was a 25(which i though had to be higher then that being a street that connects to the highways) anyways i heard there are ways around these tickets and ways to not have to pay and they dont go on record(get dismisseD) any info id appreciate i cant afford this ****! 
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Likes: 1
From: Silverdale, WA
In some jurisdictions you can pay for the ticket with a traffic school option (usually 30 dollars extra on top of the ticket, plus the extra cost of traffic school). This will prevent the points from showing up on your record, and maybe even ticket if I remember correctly. You can only do this once every 18 months and if you get another ticket during the 18 months the original ticket will show on your record but not the points. In other words insurance companies can see that you have two tickets.
sooo ya i just left my house and i barely hit 3rd gear and without knowing was going 40-45 in i guess was a 25(which i though had to be higher then that being a street that connects to the highways) anyways i heard there are ways around these tickets and ways to not have to pay and they dont go on record(get dismisseD) any info id appreciate i cant afford this ****!
Where's Fufu? We need him to chime in on this thread.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,096
Likes: 9
From: So Cal where the OC/LA/SB counties meet
Big question. Was it a radar ticket? Makes a big different in what your options are. Also, I've learned there is a good defensive measure against laser gun speeding tickets in California. But not something I want to air in this public of a forum.
As to whether you can still get traffic school at your trial and the cop shows up, the answer is absolutly you still can.
Granted, not very often as traffic school is primarily/usually used to clear the courts calender. But, you get the right judge and you handle it the right way, you can still get it as it's always available to the judge to grant. I'm proof as that's exactly what happened to me on my last ticket.
Put differently, if your eligible, your ability to get traffic school is in most cases 100% at the hearing level, mayby 20% at the trial level.
As to whether you can still get traffic school at your trial and the cop shows up, the answer is absolutly you still can.
Granted, not very often as traffic school is primarily/usually used to clear the courts calender. But, you get the right judge and you handle it the right way, you can still get it as it's always available to the judge to grant. I'm proof as that's exactly what happened to me on my last ticket.
Put differently, if your eligible, your ability to get traffic school is in most cases 100% at the hearing level, mayby 20% at the trial level.
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,061
Likes: 1
From: bay area
go to court. if the cop doesnt show you win. if he does then tell the judge you would like to change your mind about fighting it and normally they will reduce the fines and still allow you to go to traffic school.
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Belligerent Security
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: Pulling you over
We are required to show up. It's not like we get to pick and choose when to go to court.
If it's an off-day for me, I get paid an automatic 4-hours of overtime to come a defend my actions even if I am only there for 30 minutes. It's part of the job, I am required to show up even on my off days. If I am on duty, arrangements are made so I can be off the streets for a few hours.
If it's an off-day for me, I get paid an automatic 4-hours of overtime to come a defend my actions even if I am only there for 30 minutes. It's part of the job, I am required to show up even on my off days. If I am on duty, arrangements are made so I can be off the streets for a few hours.
I do not take credit for this information. This was part of the discussion of speeding tickets on another forum I am a part of.
Another members post
OK....I have been mulling over this idea for a few weeks now. I'd like to share what is going on with my most current trial in traffic court. I've been a hesitant to post because I dont want to give people the impression that I have all the answers, or even a few for that matter, because I dont.
I'm NOT an attorney, I represent myself Pro Per/Pro Se.
I believe the Government has overstepped its authority. I believe they have twisted my Constitutionally protected right to travel into a privilege. Only by paying their fees and following their rules am I afforded the privilege to travel.
I view my traffic violations as an opportunity to stick it to a corrupt system. A small victory for myself.
Let me also say this....I respect law enforcement. Unless faced with a very aggressive Officer I am always polite and I understand the Officer is merely doing what he believes his job to be. I would much rather have our Police fighting real crime than playing the role of revenue agent for the State.
My latest case involves me, allegedly, speeding on Highway 101. I was traveling North Bound on 101 just south of King City, coming back from my cousins wedding in SLO. A CHP Officer was traveling South Bound on 101, the opposite direction, when he, allegedly, clocked me going "80+" with his vehicle mounted radar detector.
He quickly turned around in the median and began to pursue me. As he caught up to me he activated his lights and I immediately pulled to the right side of the road.
He asked me for the usual, license, registration and insurance. I provided all the documents he wanted, he wrote me a "ticket", I signed and was on my way.
For the record, "citations" or "tickets" are properly called "Notice To Appear" throughout the Vehicle code. So I signed the notice to appear.
Now there are many ways to attack these Notices to Appear. Some people contest jurisdiction, personam and subject matter, some people take a UCC(Uniform Commercial Code) approach arguing they dont seek to contract with the State or DMV...there are a multitude of ways.
Being that I am relatively new to this and have only had to face radar tickets so far I have worked, with the help of others, a mathematical formula to beat radar...so far it has had 100% success.
Let me back up a moment...
So I show up at the date and time required by my signature on the notice to appear. They had a Judge Pro Tem sitting in for the real Judge/Commissioner. The Judge Pro Tem is typically a local lawyer that has some experience with traffic court.
Any defendant has the right to NOT stipulate to the Judge Pro Tem. I did not agree to that stipulation. Additionally, I asked to have my arraignment heard at the County seat for traffic which for Monterey County is in Marina. The original arraignment was held in King City....Marina is much closer and it is my right so there it is...
A couple weeks later I have my arraignment in Marina, this time, in front of Superior Court Judge Maldonado. No more Pro Tem, no commissioner. He calls me up and he can see on the notes that I did not want pro tem..etc..etc....
He asked me how I wanted to plea. I told him I had a few questions prior to making a decision on a plea.
1. Is this a civil or criminal matter?
He said this was a criminal matter.
2. What burden of proof will be used if I ask for a trial?
He said the burden of proof will be "beyond a reasonable doubt", "just like a murder trial".
I thanked him and let him know that I wanted to plead NOT GUILTY. He said OK, then told me I had to pay a bail of $229 BEFORE I could have my trial. I objected.
The courts claim, on their own document, that the Vehicle code gives them the ability to require "bail" prior to trial.
They cite CA Vehicle Code 40902(b) and 40519(a) and (b) as the specific code which gives them the authority to REQUIRE this.
Being the sceptic that I am I decided to take a read of the law myself. Would you be surprised to learn the VC does NOT require bail. The law says it is an option, for the defendant, if he want to avoid arraignment and go straight to trial. I was there in person and requested no such thing.
Judge Maldonado initially tried to bully me into paying...saying it is the law...when I pointed out that the law requires no such thing he said HE was making it a rule....eventually he saw it my way and waived bail.
So now I am scheduled for trial at the end of this month.
I have filed a couple motions. I have demanded discovery and asked them for a bunch of different things....
1. Copy of the back of the citation
2. A copy of all manuals that were supplied by the manufacture of the radar unit that was used in the alleged violation, including service manuals, operator manuals, general specifications of the unit in question, installation manuals, etc. etc.
3. The serial number of the radar unit in question.
4. The serial number of the tuning forks used to test the radar unit in question.
5. A copy of the last time the tuning forks were tested.
6. A copy of the training materials that were used to train the officer in question who wrote the citation.
7. A copy of the testing site and/or the person who tested the radar units qualifications.
8. A record of the qualifications of the person who taught the officer in the use of radar.
9. The last time that the radar unit was tested against a known verified speedometer.
All of this as well as anything else required under Penal Code SECTION 1054-1054.10.
I've filed an Affidavit of Truth with the DA's office in hopes of defaulting them.
Here is an audio recording of the arraignment if anyone is interested.
http://www.supload.com/sound_confirm...=456035288.wma
Again, I'm not a lawyer, please dont look to me for legal advice. All I can do is tell you what has worked and what has not worked FOR ME. I'm willing to discuss the topic, I actually enjoy the fact that I am learning quite a bit with this.
Best part of it is they, the State, cant do anything to me for exercising my rights. Worst case scenario, they find me guilty and I pay the fine they wanted me to pay at the beginning...the way I look at it I have nothing to lose and a lot to learn...so....
I'm NOT an attorney, I represent myself Pro Per/Pro Se.
I believe the Government has overstepped its authority. I believe they have twisted my Constitutionally protected right to travel into a privilege. Only by paying their fees and following their rules am I afforded the privilege to travel.
I view my traffic violations as an opportunity to stick it to a corrupt system. A small victory for myself.
Let me also say this....I respect law enforcement. Unless faced with a very aggressive Officer I am always polite and I understand the Officer is merely doing what he believes his job to be. I would much rather have our Police fighting real crime than playing the role of revenue agent for the State.
My latest case involves me, allegedly, speeding on Highway 101. I was traveling North Bound on 101 just south of King City, coming back from my cousins wedding in SLO. A CHP Officer was traveling South Bound on 101, the opposite direction, when he, allegedly, clocked me going "80+" with his vehicle mounted radar detector.
He quickly turned around in the median and began to pursue me. As he caught up to me he activated his lights and I immediately pulled to the right side of the road.
He asked me for the usual, license, registration and insurance. I provided all the documents he wanted, he wrote me a "ticket", I signed and was on my way.
For the record, "citations" or "tickets" are properly called "Notice To Appear" throughout the Vehicle code. So I signed the notice to appear.
Now there are many ways to attack these Notices to Appear. Some people contest jurisdiction, personam and subject matter, some people take a UCC(Uniform Commercial Code) approach arguing they dont seek to contract with the State or DMV...there are a multitude of ways.
Being that I am relatively new to this and have only had to face radar tickets so far I have worked, with the help of others, a mathematical formula to beat radar...so far it has had 100% success.
Let me back up a moment...
So I show up at the date and time required by my signature on the notice to appear. They had a Judge Pro Tem sitting in for the real Judge/Commissioner. The Judge Pro Tem is typically a local lawyer that has some experience with traffic court.
Any defendant has the right to NOT stipulate to the Judge Pro Tem. I did not agree to that stipulation. Additionally, I asked to have my arraignment heard at the County seat for traffic which for Monterey County is in Marina. The original arraignment was held in King City....Marina is much closer and it is my right so there it is...
A couple weeks later I have my arraignment in Marina, this time, in front of Superior Court Judge Maldonado. No more Pro Tem, no commissioner. He calls me up and he can see on the notes that I did not want pro tem..etc..etc....
He asked me how I wanted to plea. I told him I had a few questions prior to making a decision on a plea.
1. Is this a civil or criminal matter?
He said this was a criminal matter.
2. What burden of proof will be used if I ask for a trial?
He said the burden of proof will be "beyond a reasonable doubt", "just like a murder trial".
I thanked him and let him know that I wanted to plead NOT GUILTY. He said OK, then told me I had to pay a bail of $229 BEFORE I could have my trial. I objected.
The courts claim, on their own document, that the Vehicle code gives them the ability to require "bail" prior to trial.
They cite CA Vehicle Code 40902(b) and 40519(a) and (b) as the specific code which gives them the authority to REQUIRE this.
Being the sceptic that I am I decided to take a read of the law myself. Would you be surprised to learn the VC does NOT require bail. The law says it is an option, for the defendant, if he want to avoid arraignment and go straight to trial. I was there in person and requested no such thing.
Judge Maldonado initially tried to bully me into paying...saying it is the law...when I pointed out that the law requires no such thing he said HE was making it a rule....eventually he saw it my way and waived bail.
So now I am scheduled for trial at the end of this month.
I have filed a couple motions. I have demanded discovery and asked them for a bunch of different things....
1. Copy of the back of the citation
2. A copy of all manuals that were supplied by the manufacture of the radar unit that was used in the alleged violation, including service manuals, operator manuals, general specifications of the unit in question, installation manuals, etc. etc.
3. The serial number of the radar unit in question.
4. The serial number of the tuning forks used to test the radar unit in question.
5. A copy of the last time the tuning forks were tested.
6. A copy of the training materials that were used to train the officer in question who wrote the citation.
7. A copy of the testing site and/or the person who tested the radar units qualifications.
8. A record of the qualifications of the person who taught the officer in the use of radar.
9. The last time that the radar unit was tested against a known verified speedometer.
All of this as well as anything else required under Penal Code SECTION 1054-1054.10.
I've filed an Affidavit of Truth with the DA's office in hopes of defaulting them.
Here is an audio recording of the arraignment if anyone is interested.
http://www.supload.com/sound_confirm...=456035288.wma
Again, I'm not a lawyer, please dont look to me for legal advice. All I can do is tell you what has worked and what has not worked FOR ME. I'm willing to discuss the topic, I actually enjoy the fact that I am learning quite a bit with this.
Best part of it is they, the State, cant do anything to me for exercising my rights. Worst case scenario, they find me guilty and I pay the fine they wanted me to pay at the beginning...the way I look at it I have nothing to lose and a lot to learn...so....
If you are financially able the court CAN and DOES impose bail. That in itself is not unfair. This is what I find unfair:
If the layman goes to court, pleads not guilty and lets it go to trial, bail is waived.
If you excercise your rights and file pre-arraignment motions and or show the court that you intend to fight agressively all of a sudden they want bail.
If bail is required, it should be required for everyone.
A few things about your audio tape.
Did you catch that the calendar was full and the judge "ordered" a "special session"? This is because if you refuse to waive time they must bring it to trial within 45 days (30 days if in custody). If they do not, the charges MUST be dismissed.
A couple of things.... you should have issued a pre-emptory challange if you want to fight a legal battle. Superior court judges will be more versed on case law and proper evidense procedure.
You should have requested a trial by written declaration. You would have had to post bail (or fight it) anyway. A trial by declaration is a free try... if the officer does not file his paperwork you win. If he does, you request a new trial and you have lost nothing... its a free run at it and improves your chance of dismissal by at least twice. After all if you get the copy of the officer's declaration and he has left a key portion of his burden of proof you can appeal based solely on the trial by declaration. In essense you can use the trial by declaration in appeal if the officer gets something wrong but they can never use it against you after you request the trial de novo.... its a win-win situation.
If the layman goes to court, pleads not guilty and lets it go to trial, bail is waived.
If you excercise your rights and file pre-arraignment motions and or show the court that you intend to fight agressively all of a sudden they want bail.
If bail is required, it should be required for everyone.
A few things about your audio tape.
Did you catch that the calendar was full and the judge "ordered" a "special session"? This is because if you refuse to waive time they must bring it to trial within 45 days (30 days if in custody). If they do not, the charges MUST be dismissed.
A couple of things.... you should have issued a pre-emptory challange if you want to fight a legal battle. Superior court judges will be more versed on case law and proper evidense procedure.
You should have requested a trial by written declaration. You would have had to post bail (or fight it) anyway. A trial by declaration is a free try... if the officer does not file his paperwork you win. If he does, you request a new trial and you have lost nothing... its a free run at it and improves your chance of dismissal by at least twice. After all if you get the copy of the officer's declaration and he has left a key portion of his burden of proof you can appeal based solely on the trial by declaration. In essense you can use the trial by declaration in appeal if the officer gets something wrong but they can never use it against you after you request the trial de novo.... its a win-win situation.
Belligerent Security
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: Pulling you over
All of that wasted time just for a speeding ticket. That is f'n great. Just pay the ******* thing and quit being a baby about the goverment sticking it to you. Maybe if I was only worth $10/hour I might spend that much of my free time but not now that my free time is worth 4 times that.
NorCal 7's Co-founder
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,130
Likes: 5
From: Rocklin, CA
Thanks for coming in here and posting the facts FuFu. And I would say go to court and ask for traffic school Tony. That's your best bet. That and to stop speeding if you can't afford the tickets. 
CEO of Belligerents INC.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 2
From: 213 is the Clique
You gotta pay to play unfortunately. In this case, speeding a tad bit. Traffic school would be your best bet as many have mentioned. Keep in mind, just because your ticket is dismissed via traffic school, it still shows on your record as a 'dimissed violation.'
Some insurance companies would give you 1 pt on their driver rating system if you have two dismissed traffic violations. However, that depends on your insurance company.
Some insurance companies would give you 1 pt on their driver rating system if you have two dismissed traffic violations. However, that depends on your insurance company.
Goofyrotor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 2
From: San Diego
it does seem like a lot of wasted time.
when i went to court to get a front license plate ticket cleared up, i spent 3 hours there. to get it reduced from $675 to $250. it was worth it, but in my case, it was not fair to even have it that much.
when i went to court to get a front license plate ticket cleared up, i spent 3 hours there. to get it reduced from $675 to $250. it was worth it, but in my case, it was not fair to even have it that much.
Insurance guy
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
From: Ontario/Rancho Cucamonga/Brea
I don't know who to get out of them, but you can ask for a reduction in fine and traffic school.
old man story:
The last ticket I got was about 2 1/2 years ago and it was for speeding. I was late for something important and I was going about 80 in a 50 mph zone. It was a lonely highway road. In short, I was being a dumbass on this particular day. Anywho, I went to court with the letter I got in the mail stating the fine amount. A helpful clerk told me to write a letter to a judge asking for a reduction in fine and traffic school. She gave the names of the more lenient ones. I wrote my letter stating that I was at fault and that there was no excuse for my actions. I also stated that I was in the process of buying a home and that I would appreciate any help. I asked for a reduction in fine and traffic school. I got a letter from the court in a week or so and my fine went from 300 something to 100 something.
I hope this helps.
old man story:
The last ticket I got was about 2 1/2 years ago and it was for speeding. I was late for something important and I was going about 80 in a 50 mph zone. It was a lonely highway road. In short, I was being a dumbass on this particular day. Anywho, I went to court with the letter I got in the mail stating the fine amount. A helpful clerk told me to write a letter to a judge asking for a reduction in fine and traffic school. She gave the names of the more lenient ones. I wrote my letter stating that I was at fault and that there was no excuse for my actions. I also stated that I was in the process of buying a home and that I would appreciate any help. I asked for a reduction in fine and traffic school. I got a letter from the court in a week or so and my fine went from 300 something to 100 something.
I hope this helps.
Insurance guy
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
From: Ontario/Rancho Cucamonga/Brea
You can ask a judge for permission. If it is less that 18 months after the last time you went, it will most likely show up on your mvr. It will show up as dismissed. Some insurance companies still charge for this.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,096
Likes: 9
From: So Cal where the OC/LA/SB counties meet
it still shows on your record as a 'dimissed violation.'
18 month/8 hour doesn't show up on your public record, only on the court record which only judges and (I believe) cops can see.
If you've gone to Traffic School over 12 months but less than 18 months, you can ask for 12 hour. 12 hour DOES show up on your public record which insurance companies see, but it does eliminate the point as to staying under the maximum points before you get your license suspended.
Don't count on your insurance company not counting the point against you as a Traffic School dismissal code (AF) is different than an actual dismissal (A).
If this is your only point, I suggest at most going to court to get fine reduced. You can always play the 12 hour traffic school card later to manage your point total if you start racking them up.
By the way, one thought. If you can affort to take the chance of getting the point on your record, go to court, plea not guilty, post bail (your fine) and request trial by declaration. Cops get paid to go to court, easy duty. But trials by declaration are a real PITA for them as many times they have to compose their own declaration on their own time. Fu can clarify this. Anyway, because it's a comparative PITA, better chance the cop won't take the time to respond. No response, no case against you. Case dismissed (Code A), and your get your bail money back.
If you've gone to Traffic School over 12 months but less than 18 months, you can ask for 12 hour. 12 hour DOES show up on your public record which insurance companies see, but it does eliminate the point as to staying under the maximum points before you get your license suspended.
Don't count on your insurance company not counting the point against you as a Traffic School dismissal code (AF) is different than an actual dismissal (A).
If this is your only point, I suggest at most going to court to get fine reduced. You can always play the 12 hour traffic school card later to manage your point total if you start racking them up.
By the way, one thought. If you can affort to take the chance of getting the point on your record, go to court, plea not guilty, post bail (your fine) and request trial by declaration. Cops get paid to go to court, easy duty. But trials by declaration are a real PITA for them as many times they have to compose their own declaration on their own time. Fu can clarify this. Anyway, because it's a comparative PITA, better chance the cop won't take the time to respond. No response, no case against you. Case dismissed (Code A), and your get your bail money back.
Last edited by HOZZMANRX7; Aug 25, 2007 at 10:00 PM.
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