what does this process run $$$???

 

please dont tell all your cop friends about this Fumanchu. its not like we are robbing old ladies or hurting people.

 

Ah, he returns. And I thought that Yanni didn't hang out here anymore.

 

Too late....FuFu IS a cop (although a pretty cool one).

 

yea i know he is. we used to hang out a few years ago when he still had his fd. he isnt into cars anymore though.

 

I thought he was into boats now or some thing. Chicks dig boats

 

Yah, but the thing is - I can still smell them! I knew he was just by the way he was posting.

J/K - I do know some cool cops! We ride around on our crotch rockets with them all the time. Just most of the time they are trying to catch us

 

Hmm....interesting thread. I'll have to digest the info for a bit...

 

I've been doing the same thing Dom. I am just comtemplating whether this whole process in itself is illegal or not. I'm going to ask a few buddies that have been on the force a little longer than I about it.

 

Both of you are cops

 

Thanks DJDino for smog hook-up so I dont have to deal with the legalities then mocking with it over and over again (USELESS IMHO).

Thanks meng. I have recommended your flower shop to my relatives. I hope they are keeping you busy.

 

Being in the MC for 8 years, and then staying in san diego, I know a bunch of cops in a few different agencies. I talked to one today who asked the question to one of his supervisors. They seemed to think that smog exempting a vehicle by installing an alternative fuel source was probably legal, they also said that removing the alternative fuel source was probably illegal, but if the vehicle was capable of multiple fuel sources and was made exempt when it was in that state would probably be fine. They also seemed to think that they could still ticket you with a ref ticket, and or tow your car etc, but that you would most likley get out of any of those, as the burden is on the car owner to show that the car is legal, just like in the case of the ref ticket I got in a bone stock eclipse for having an "aftermarket turbo". They could have impounded my car, and when they found out upon inspection that the car was legal I would have gotten it back without having to pay.

 

Nobody has asked yet... but can you make a Rotary engine run on propane with hazw8st's kit / mods? Does it apply to all rotary engines? 12a to 13b-msp to 20b-rew?

 

Legal untill proven guilty right?

I want to see sombody throw a 20B in a Toyota Prius.

 

I don't know about hazw8st's kit, but conversion to propane is nothing new, its pretty common in australia...

 

Gentlemen: As long as the vehicle runs on propane it is legal. These AFV kits are flexfuel kits, any vehicle can run on propane, if the owner gets a ref ticket, all you would have to do is reinstall the propane and take the car to the BAR referee of your choice. Smog exemption is pretty simple.

 

simple but its at the officers discretion if they want to take pictures of your ride, and or tow the car. This is no different from getting pulled over with illegal mods, getting a ref ticket and changing the parts back to stock to go to the ref. It seems like the best case scenario would be to set the car up for dual fuel. That way it would be legal running on propane and illegal on gas, but how do they know what its run on when your being pulled over, especially if you can flip a switch and make it run on propane.

 

Can the rotary run on propane? How much will this setup cost?

 

this thread is jam packed with BS salesman preaching.

all i am gonna say is you guys better watch your asses if you think this is legal, Fu is right about cops not being as stupid as you think as all they have to do is flip out their book and write up a ref ticket to have the car inspected.

and why does everyone keep repeating the BAR? the BAR stands for Bureau of Automotive Repair and has absolutely nothing to do with smog, they do however police the smog stations but the office that deals with illegal emissions is CARB, or California Air Resource Board. the people making these claims using the wrong departments clearly shows me these people don't know what the **** they are talking about and just pulling **** out of their ***.

 

the only way i know to get out of state ref ticket, is if you've already been to state ref, and you have the little paper, ive watched cops not even pop the hood once theyve seen the state ref paper saying the car is leagal. thats about all i know about that though.

 

I wanna know how much this propane kit costs too....I'm still deciding on this too. I don't have smog for another year and a half though so I have time to think.

 

Don't worry, I emailed the person over at CARB that deals with the law enforcement side of the department. Hopefully she will get back to me about this new trend.

 

This may sound dumb...but all of these loopholes...require one thing. TIME. Do you have the time to run over to the ref say....once a month or once every two months? In theory...a cop that KNOWS you're skirting the law can give you a hard time (let's ignore the harassment argument for a moment).

This is the EPA's doc on alternative fuel vehicles requirements/FAQs, etc.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cisd0602.pdf
Page 9 - mentions if someone (including the owner) decides to tamper w/ the system...they are liable.

Page 11 : OBD 1 (for RX-7s) must be completely functional.
Page 13 : California has it's own special requirements for alternative fuel vehicles. Contact DNgueyn @ ARB.
Page 15 : (Requirements of the manufacturer) Get OBD II approval letter from CARB, but no mention of OBD I,....so this could be a problem.
Page 20: Mentions emissions waivers.

BTW, I only GLANCED at the document. I did not go over it w/ fine detail. And this is only ONE part of the equation. Other departments and factors become involved.

As a minimum, I'm going to say that the RX-7 is going to have a hell of a time to pass.
If someone is actually going to do this, you need a REALLY good candidate for emissions.

Most of the FD RX-7 guys have modified something or another. Those of you running a non-stock ECU (not including Power FC) are already ineligible (because OBD I must work). Power FCs may work...not sure.

Dual fueled vehicles require a completely working emissions system (for the gas side). (again, pg 11)

Anyone w/ a jspec motor...not going to happen. No EGR means you're screwed.
Someone w/ a non-stock looking intercooler (in theory) is an alarm to a cop to issue a ref ticket.

Keep in mind, this document above is for a small vehicle manufacturer "

*I could've sworn there were requirements for someone to qualify as a "small vehicle manufacturer". After you produce over "x" number of vehicles per year, you don't qualify. Not sure if I can find it...but I could've sworn this was the case. Admittedly, I could be wrong on this*.

Anyways, if a cop pulls you over and doesn't see a full working emissions system, you're off to the ref. And again,..at the ref...no emissions = busted.

IMO, it's the same game. Nothing new. Just different wording. Slightly different method.
But the same basics apply. If's not like you can gut the engine bay, fill it w/ different gas and emissions lines...and that will cause a cop to believe you.

For someone to actually do the "alternative fuel vehicle" conversion to an RX-7,...there is an $$$$$ entry fee. Not sure if someone would actually pony up the cash to do this.

But again, this requires $$$$$ from someone. It's not as simple as $100 for paperwork and you're done. Anyone who thinks this is the case, is mistaken.

 

Finally found the right dept?

This seems like a big PITA that wont last due to loose lips. A big PITA to remain iilegal, but in disguise!
Thread jack..... Here is my question, is the any performance to be gained by propane injection? I know the gains on diesiels is similar to NOS on a gas motor. Anyone done a diesiel/ popane rotary?

 

It's not loose lips. The basic fundamentals are there. And if someone f*cks w/ a "manufacturer's" (alternative fuel manufacturer in this case) parts...then you are liable.

Like I said, nothing new. Same game, same rules, different method of attack.