2mm vs 3mm
05-19-10, 09:52 PM
#52
Full Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: long island
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-20-10, 02:58 AM
#53
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S.F.
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I tried googling re super seals and didn't find them. I kept getting some wierd stuff that has nothing tO with cars. I also got re amemya. It's in Japanese though. Haha. How much do they cost? How did you get yours?Nvm I think I found them. Are these they?
RE-Amemiya Super 3 Piece Apex Seal 2mm.
These 3 Piece Apex Seals were made by modification of Standard 2mm OEM Mazda Apex Seals and are WPC Treated.
Designed by RE-Ameimiya to make a longer lasting Rotary motor. Designed for installation onto 13B-T and 13B-REW motors. Incompatible with SE3P RX-8 Renesis engines. Contact us on use on 3-Rotor Engines.
Mazda RX-7 FC3C (Zenki - 10/85-2/89) Eng:13B-T
Mazda RX-7 FC3S (Zenki - 10/85-2/89) Eng:13B-T
Mazda RX-7 FC3S (Kouki - 3/89-11/91) Eng: 13B-T
Mazda RX-7 FD3S Type I (Zenki - 12/91-9/94) Eng: 13B-REW
Mazda RX-7 FD3S Type II (Zenki - 9/94-3/95) Eng: 13B-REW
Mazda RX-7 FD3S Type III (Zenki - 9/94-1/96) Eng: 13B-REW
Mazda RX-7 FD3S Type IV (Chuki - 1/96-12/98) Eng: 13B-REW
Mazda RX-7 FD3S Type V (Kouki - 1/99-9/00) Eng: 13B-REW
Mazda RX-7 FD3S Type VI (Kouki - 10/00-8/02) Eng: 13B-REW
Get this and all your JDM @ RHD Japan!!
Last edited by Linguo415; 05-20-10 at 03:05 AM.
05-21-10, 06:26 PM
#55
KM48 Burnout
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you're broke, like most 7 owners, get stock 2mm apex seals.
Let me try to convince you in another way... It's going to be long, so don't read this if you don't need convincing...
You will not get high mileage out of 3mm apex seals because they will float at high RPMS. If you granny the car, 3mm seals might work fine. I don't know why people still consider using a 3mm seal. Maybe the comfort of detonating harder to damage something else gives them reassurance. 3mm apex seals are heavier than 2mm apex seals, thus causing chatter marks on your rotor housings at high RPMS. 3mm ceramic seals I might consider, but I'd have to see what RPM they start to float.
History update: Mazda and Mercedes both had problems with the rotary overheating and getting wear marks on the housings. The apex seals have to be light, and in contact with the housings to dissipate heat and create a seal. The moment the apex seals start to float, you lose your combustion seal, the apex seals don't transfer heat when out of contact, and chatter the rotor housings. So, a light seal had to be used. Even the RX-8 uses this concept. The RX-8 renesis apex seal is half the size of a 13b engine. This allows the RX-8 to rev up to 10,000 RPMS safely with no issues of apex seals floating.
2mm apex seals wont cause chatter marks unless they are past 8,500 RPMS for long periods of time.
Ceramic apex seals don't float and don't cause chatter marks because they are lighter (1/2 the weight). Which is why the race cars are running ceramics because 90% of their driving is past 7,000 RPMS.
All seals are almost equally as strong. 3mm and ceramic seals might take more detonation, but if you are detonating, you will break something. Whether it be an iron cracking, denting your rotors, shattering your seals. It happens. 2mm seals are cheap. You can shatter those all day and build a motor back up for under 1k. If someone wants to argue this, go for it. Everyone has their own experience, preference, and concept on the rotary. Just don't try to convince me to use 3mm seals.
Let me try to convince you in another way... It's going to be long, so don't read this if you don't need convincing...
You will not get high mileage out of 3mm apex seals because they will float at high RPMS. If you granny the car, 3mm seals might work fine. I don't know why people still consider using a 3mm seal. Maybe the comfort of detonating harder to damage something else gives them reassurance. 3mm apex seals are heavier than 2mm apex seals, thus causing chatter marks on your rotor housings at high RPMS. 3mm ceramic seals I might consider, but I'd have to see what RPM they start to float.
History update: Mazda and Mercedes both had problems with the rotary overheating and getting wear marks on the housings. The apex seals have to be light, and in contact with the housings to dissipate heat and create a seal. The moment the apex seals start to float, you lose your combustion seal, the apex seals don't transfer heat when out of contact, and chatter the rotor housings. So, a light seal had to be used. Even the RX-8 uses this concept. The RX-8 renesis apex seal is half the size of a 13b engine. This allows the RX-8 to rev up to 10,000 RPMS safely with no issues of apex seals floating.
2mm apex seals wont cause chatter marks unless they are past 8,500 RPMS for long periods of time.
Ceramic apex seals don't float and don't cause chatter marks because they are lighter (1/2 the weight). Which is why the race cars are running ceramics because 90% of their driving is past 7,000 RPMS.
All seals are almost equally as strong. 3mm and ceramic seals might take more detonation, but if you are detonating, you will break something. Whether it be an iron cracking, denting your rotors, shattering your seals. It happens. 2mm seals are cheap. You can shatter those all day and build a motor back up for under 1k. If someone wants to argue this, go for it. Everyone has their own experience, preference, and concept on the rotary. Just don't try to convince me to use 3mm seals.
05-21-10, 08:24 PM
#56
I say Bullshit with a capital B. I have seen 12-A and pre-86 13-B that have out lasted the newer motors with 2mm seals. In fact, show me a motor with them non-factory seals that have lasted more than 100M miles and I will show you mine with factory 3mm seals with long history of daily abuse and still runs to date (compression +/- 100psi, tested after an hour drive and with a modified piston compression gauge). Im referring to N/A application so dont get too hyped up with crystal meth.
05-22-10, 06:28 PM
#57
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S.F.
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Rez311. I'm set on getting the 2mm. I'm trying t figure out what the RE super seals are about though. They are less than ceramics and cost less. They are a 3 piece and I've heard that isn't the best. They are wpc treated I think. I don't know what that means. Haha
05-22-10, 06:41 PM
#58
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S.F.
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I say Bullshit with a capital B. I have seen 12-A and pre-86 13-B that have out lasted the newer motors with 2mm seals. In fact, show me a motor with them non-factory seals that have lasted more than 100M miles and I will show you mine with factory 3mm seals with long history of daily abuse and still runs to date (compression +/- 100psi, tested after an hour drive and with a modified piston compression gauge). Im referring to N/A application so dont get too hyped up with crystal meth.
05-22-10, 10:50 PM
#59
Full Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: long island
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
www.rotaryaviation.com
Cool story bro. Only thing is that you're talking about your factory 3mm seals. T2 comes with 2mm and it isn't recomended to go up to 3mm. I think the engine will work well with what it is designed to have in it. I'm just trying to figure out what to put in my engine. So far 2mm ceramic with new rotor housings sounds best. Unless I can find out more about these RE Amemiya super seals.
05-24-10, 03:59 AM
#60
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S.F.
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
google search (ra super seals) www.rotaryaviation.com
05-24-10, 06:45 PM
#61
KM48 Burnout
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RA seals are good. They use them in planes, which says a lot considering an airplane engine sees constant load of 75% on takeoff for up to 5-10 minutes climbing. However, they had a bad batch of seals back in the days when they first ran a set that caused severe chatter marks on the housings. The seals they have now do not do that.
Atkins Rotary also sells good apex seals. Their seals are softer and when they blow out, they don't swiss cheese everything when they pop. Stock seals will shatter and embed in everything when they let go under boost.
Atkins Rotary also sells good apex seals. Their seals are softer and when they blow out, they don't swiss cheese everything when they pop. Stock seals will shatter and embed in everything when they let go under boost.
05-24-10, 10:18 PM
#62
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S.F.
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RA seals are good. They use them in planes, which says a lot considering an airplane engine sees constant load of 75% on takeoff for up to 5-10 minutes climbing. However, they had a bad batch of seals back in the days when they first ran a set that caused severe chatter marks on the housings. The seals they have now do not do that.
Atkins Rotary also sells good apex seals. Their seals are softer and when they blow out, they don't swiss cheese everything when they pop. Stock seals will shatter and embed in everything when they let go under boost.
Atkins Rotary also sells good apex seals. Their seals are softer and when they blow out, they don't swiss cheese everything when they pop. Stock seals will shatter and embed in everything when they let go under boost.
05-25-10, 05:14 PM
#65
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S.F.
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So far from what I hear and the research that I have done ceramics sounds the best. They are used for racing but are good for street use. You can stay at high rpm for longer periods of time with these. I think its what im gonna go with.
