Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

For those of you who have done a piston swap (looking mainly toward LS1 -FD guys), has there ever been a point to where you have regretted it? We all know that the car is just as balanced weight-wise, has more power potential,and increased reliability. All that is why alot of people (including myself) are looking into this swap. All this aside, do you ever feel that your new "supercar" just doesnt have as much appeal to you anymore, or has lost some of its majic, being it now has an ultra-common GM powerplant? Not to jump on the "it has lost its soul" bandwagon, but the rotary is part of the appeal that made the Rx-7 so popular, (as well as what drove sales down and ruined it for Mazda, this I understand). There are alot of Ferraris and porsches out there with overcomplicated, overly expensive,multi-valve, twin turbo timebombs, and Im sure the LS1 would do just as well, if not better in those cars, but you dont see anyone doing it, and Im sure it would be met with just as much hostility as it is on these forums. For example the Ferrari 360 makes 400HP, and only 275ft/lbs TQ. Drop in a cam/head LS1 (~450RWHP), and the car would be faster, cheaper, more reliable... but would it still have the appeal of a Ferrari? Im not starting this thread to start any arguments, and I know Im not saying anything that hasnt been said before. I myself have been researching LS1s and looking into my opitions for a long time now... but even though I know that performance and money wise, the LS1 is 10x better than the 13B, I just cant help but think that if I go through with the swap, and once the "great now my FD is faster" wears off, a few years down the road I will be regretting the decision for all the reasons I listed above. Comments???

coolvette

good question,i would like to hear from single turbo guys in the375-450 rwhp range that did the ls1 swap,and ask them what what engine made the fd more fun to drive.

custom13B

Sounds to me you already know the answer to this. I did a LT-1 swap in my restored FB driven it several times now and absolutely love it! I wish I had done this sooner..like maybe several thousand dollars and 3 rotary engines ago! It still handles great and is much faster then even my old turbo blueprinted 13B with stand alone. I rea;ize this is not a FD...but I seriously doubt you would regret the swap. If your one of those guys who feels the rotary gives the car a "soul" and its so so special..then keep it. Just dont call me when it breaks. I no longer wasts my time on building rotaries,I now am more interested in LT-1's and LS-1's. My only suggestion is buying a plug n play harness like a painless..unless your very patient or wealthy. Best of luck in your choice,Shawn

Merc63

You don't see the swap as much in Ferraris and newer Porsches because Ferraris and newer Porsches, unlike RX7s, are not cheap throwaway cars to their owners.

The exception to that is older Porsches, and there are Chevy swap kits for old 911s, 912s, 914s, 924s, 944s, and 928s. Old Porsches are cheap, and can gain much oif the value and ability as the RX7 gets. hanging a chevy ouyt th eback of a 911 or 912, however, requires a bit of planning, though the N/A chevy engine doens' treally weigh much more than a fully dressed 911 turbo engine with all it's intercooler and everything. 914s are mid engine, and handle the swap nicely, and the 924/944/928 swaps are much like the RX7 swaps in end result. In fact, there are more completed and running older Porsche swaps than RX7 swaps.

And no, I didn't lose appreciation for my RX7 after the swap. I don't think anyone that could even consider doing the swap COULD lose appreciation for it afterwards. Especially for the reason you gave.

OC_

Why dont people swap in chevy v-8's in Ferraris? Well, if you can afford one of those cars, you can afford to keep it running. Plus, those cars already come with good HP.

Yes, the engine is the soul of the car. Especially for our RX-7's which have such unique engines. Ferraris and lambos are known for their engines as well. What would a lambo be without its famous v12? Some people really say that the gallardo is not a real lambo for that reason. (and also because it was 100% designed by zee germans)

The reason why i'm doing my swap is because I was getting sick and tired of making that thundering 160 N/A hp. God, N/A rx-7's are slow. I thought a lot about doing some mods to my N/A 13b, but everything was so expensive for such little gain. My other reasons are that T-II engines are just non-existent in my area, and if I got one, it could be a whole can-of-worms. Also, I got such a great deal on my S2000 engine that i couldnt pass it up. My engine also came with the trans, which just happens to fit perfectly in my car.

I havent finished the swap yet, but i'll let everyone know how it is when its done.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

I always find it strange that it is so often stated that people bought their RX7s for the engines. 95% of people that I know that ARE rotary fans, ended up that way BECAUSE they bought an RX7 at some point, not vice versa. And if the RX7 had an SR20DET in it, they likely would be praising the powers of turbo 4s instead of wankels. It's really the chassis that most people love about the cars, but the engine is in said chassis, so it gets to ride along on the praise train. The majority of everyday car guys that would have (or did) bought the RX7 new (all that Mazda cares about) because of the bang/buck, not because of its powerplant, if anything the powerplant scared them away.

That said, I went from a ~140 HP ~100 TQ vehicle to a ~450 HP ~450 TQ vehicle, all for less then a late 90's Camaro in good shape would cost, and my car will run LAPS around it. I'm actually a fan of the rotary in many circumstances, and had been planning a TII, and then 20B swap when I did my setup; that said, dollars to donuts I have to endorse the LSx swap, bar none.

owen is fat

the Ferrari argument is silly because its not like you can find a Testarossa rolling shell for 5 grand. Now, if I had the money to build a more expensive project car, it would still be LS1/LS2 powered... but it would be an Ultime GTR for sure!


I sure do NOT regret mine! the car is fun as hell! the only things I wish are-
1) wish I started out with a car in better condition, hell, wish I started with an FD!
2) wish I kept the stock bodywork and crammed tires under the wheel wells.
3) I woulda had $$$ for some te37 or ce28n if I kept the stock bodywork... superLIGHT!
4) wish I used delrin bushings everywhere! poly is fine but delrin is awesome!
5) shoulda repainted the car when I had it stripped to bare bones!
6) wish I had $$$ for headers, a CF hood, lexan hatch and an odyseey battery.

thats about it. I kept my swap simple and it was on the road fast and has had very few problems, all being minor issues like needing to tighten a coolant hose a little more, or needing to replace a tierod end, really basic stuff that comes from the age of the car and the amount of things I had upgraded.

I gotta say, daily driving a 2700 pound, 350hp FC rx7 with the reliability of a never modified, never opened, all stock, low mileage, modern motor is one HELL OF A GOOD TIME!

Merc63

Where is your human soul? Your heart? Your head? Your muscles? Or some undefineable part of your self-aware consciousness?

IF a car had a soul, it would be in the way it all works together, as created by it's builder, not in ANY part of it. The engine is analgous to the heart, stomach, and lungs working together to turn fuel into motive power. If you have an artificial heart transplanted, or are on a lung machine, do you have no soul anymore?

This "soul" argument is simply a lame way of anthropomorphicising a machine.

Merc63

Porsche conversions:

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/custo...es/ElvisV.html







Mind you, this next one is a Donovan aluminum block, not your typical conversion:

custom13B

I guess none of those Porsches have a "soul" anymore! Puhleeze! Whoever did those conversions did a beautiful job...few people can do work of that quality or afford to hire it out....even then many mechanics are not as "skilled" as you may think. If I owned a 911 and had engine trouble I would swap a V8 in there too! Now that I completed one conversion I would be more confident doing another. I love my V8 RX-7 and my only regret was not doing this sooner! I have more torque than I can use and cruising gas milegae is 24 MPG! I have yet to time it...but it goes 0 to 100 and back to 0 pretty fast ..fast enough to make me want to professionally time it.

SoontobeLS1'd

Well, I'm not finished with my swap by any means. But, I can say that I have not regretted the undertaking. There are a few decisions I would go back and change, naturally. I know it will be fun and a handfull at first while I adjust. This is my first major car project and I've learned so much already.

I didn't buy the car for the rotary but its chassis, lightweight, and available room under the hood.

maxcooper

About 5 years ago, I met a guy with a Chevy-powered 928 at a lapping day (at WSIR), and he commented how the Porsche community frowned on his swap... but he had a huge grin on his face and was clearly very happy with it. I don't think it was a fresh swap, either.

-Max

OC_

Now that i think about it; the engine doesnt seem to be the soul of the car. The only reason why people love their engines so much is because of the car its in. If the rotary was in a horridly ugly car that had terrible balance, steering, suspension and so on; would people like the rotary as much? I think not! So maybe its how a car feels and looks which makes the engine attractive.
I guess it doesnt matter what drives the wheels, as long as it doesnt subtract from the overall feel of the car.

Whizbang

personally i go both ways. i like cars. honestly after owning and work on rx7s for so long, and never fiddling with piston engines other than to fix them, i really dont feel comfortable with a piston engine. If i get a rx7 with a bad motor and i dont have a spare laying around at the time, i can see myself seeing what i can put in there. granted it might not be a small block chevy, but it could be anything. depends what i feel like.

i mean i love driving my stock GSLSE as much as my modified out the *** FC but i wouldnt be opposed to swapping a motor into a 7, especially to save it. would i do it one of my preexisiting 7s i have now? hell no.

for those who call the rotary engine a waste or junk puts you on the same road as people who claim the rotary is the "soul" of the car. Driving the car and enjoying it was gives it its "soul", how ever that be done.

Merc63

Completely agreed!

A3ON7

the reason for me, why i decided to buy the FD i the first place is because of the chassis and the handling. Is up to their own personal preferances and their piggy bank whether do they want to stick with rotaries or do they want to do the conversion. the feedback that i got from those LS1 V8 RX7 owners love the conversion and ect because of the reliability and it handled better than rotaries. I did not have the chance to ride in 1 and i hope i'll have the chance soon.