rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Had the Toyo T1S, and really liked the look and feel of those.
Is there anything that I should be looking at based on that information, that I could get help choosing a suitable replacement tire?

Front wheel is a 17 x 8

Rear wheel is a 17 x 9

Should I try and match the tires for size front and back?
Or just get the correct tires for each wheel?
Is there a pro and con for same size VS staggered?

I would like them to have decent wet weather performance if that could tie into the equation.

TIA

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Was also thinking about getting some black valve stems, is there a special kind I should be getting?

And since it might be practical to do all at once...
Is there any recommended way of changing wheel color correctly?

Edit: I have since added the wheel caps and decent set of matching lugs...so they are pretty now!

HiWire

Depends. Are you only driving on the street? What are your priorities?

Those are good wheels, so I understand if you're inclined to keep them. It does mean that you won't be able to rotate your tires back to front.

Personally, my criteria is optimal handling characteristics above everything, including absolute grip. I understand this is still subjective, but I want the quickest steering response, the best road feel (basically, nothing that detracts from the FD's handling strengths), and a controllable breakaway in traction as well as short braking distances. Also, I am willing to pay a bit more for better tires, as I expect to keep them longer and use them for non-competitive driving.

I am willing to accept a slightly noisier, firmer, less fuel-efficient tire that lasts about 2 or 3 years of spring-to-autumn driving (newly-surfaced highways with occasional lapping/time attack days).

Currently, I'm running the tires my FD came with – Pirelli P Zero Rosso on 18" RX-8 wheels. While not ideal, they are relatively comfortable and they have survived track school and some lapping sessions at local road courses. I run them at about 36 psi – stock RX-8 pressures are 32 psi and track school recommended filling at 40 psi.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I ran the T1S's on my M3 and thought they were the worst tire ever... I couldn't wait to get rid of them. I replaced them with Yokohama AD08's. For the sizes that would likely work best for you, you should look at:

Hankook Ventus R-S3
Kumho Ecsta XS
Dunlop Direzza
Toyo Proxes R1R

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

The only priorities for me to meet is exclusively street driving.
And laugh...., but I like a pleasing aesthetic tread if possible, I really liked the T1S tread, and it seemed to move water readily in the Oregon rain and deep puddles confidently and reliably.

>Those are good wheels, so I understand if you're inclined to keep them. It does mean that you won't be able to rotate your tires back to front.

Given moderate driving ability and limited abuse, how much of a problem will that be in your opinion?

>Personally, my criteria is optimal handling characteristics above everything, including absolute grip. I understand this is still subjective, but I want the quickest steering response, the best road feel (basically, nothing that detracts from the FD's handling strengths), and a controllable breakaway in traction as well as short braking distances. Also, I am willing to pay a bit more for better tires, as I expect to keep them longer and use them for non-competitive driving.

I would love to say these are critical factors I would be very interested in, but the reality is I am looking for a good tire almost exclusively by recommendation from the people here, they have never steered my wrong, and I doubt that will change.

I have a lot of appreciation and trust in the people here.

I would like a quieter tire as a “want” but is not a necessity, and could easily deal with a noisy tire if it was deemed a better fit for the conditions.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Thank you.
I will go over those carefully.

Are these recommendations more slanted toward a good race and performance tire?

I would love to say I get to do that kind of driving in a purposeful way, but I just don't get the opportunity currently...

Is there anything that you would change in your recommendations based on the above details of street driving with moderate abuse at best?

Wet weather driving is right up there in priority, on those recommended tires, I barely see even a mention of the wet capabilities.

Do you have any opinions or experience with the toyo proxes-r1r, which is being recommended to me presently.


Are there any details I can cover that would help narrow down a tire that would be more suitable for me personally?

ZDan

You *could* go 245/40-17 all around, but the fronts would look pooched (fatter on the wheel) relative to the rears, which would be relatively stretched. Not ideal for performance, and would not look too hot... Since you can't rotate front to back anyway, may as well go staggered with the tires.

Ideally, I'd say 235/40-17 fronts and 255/40-17 rears. But 235/40-17 is kind of an oddball size. There's a lot more selection in 235/45-17, but then you'd have front tires bigger in diameter than rears, which would look odd.

For tire size, I'd be looking at:
235/40-17 front, 255/40-17 rear
or
235/40-17 front, 245/40-17 rear
or
225/45-17 front, 255/40-17 rear
or
245/40-17 front, 255/40-17 rear


R1R is supposedly a killer tire in the wet at the track/autoX. But on the street, maybe not so much... Car and Driver "Monsters of Grip" tire test from last year, it didn't really do all that well relative to others: Monsters of Grip: Nine Summer-Performance Tires Tested Comparison Tests - Page 4 - Car and Driver

It is an "Extreme Performance" category tire, as are the other tires recommended above, should last 12k-20k street miles, depending.

Given your usage, I think you'd be better off on "Max Performance" or "Ultra High Performance" category summer tires (assuming you don't see any cold/snow/ice usage!). Max and UHP generally give longer life and better resistance to hydroplaning vs. Extreme, which are skewed more for track usage. For sure the Kumho XS and Hankook RS-3 recommended above shouldn't be on the list as they aren't too good in the wet (XS in particular).

Tire Rack search results for Extreme, Max, and UHP tires below. Look at test results and customer survey results for wet performance for the specific tires you are interested in. Some tires suck in the wet, regardless of the look of the tread pattern. Pick tires that excel in the wet.

235/40-17, 255/40-17
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...5&PID=3179977&

235/40-17, 245/40-17
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...5&PID=3179977&

225/45-17, 255/40-17
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...5&PID=3179977&

245/40-17, 255/40-17
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...earDiameter=17

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

They are slanted towards "performance". You own a sports car, put a capable tire on it.

No. Any tire with tread will handle wet driving. Some better than others but you make a trade off. The main difference is the nut behind the wheel.

Having said that, the best wet tire I've used has been the Nitto Invo. However, it has very soft sidewalls to cater towards German sedans/coupes. You can overcome that a little by getting a smaller size and stretching the sidewall a bit to increase stiffness but it's handling without that is very un-sports car like..

That's relative. Many folks are using both tires during wet autox events with good success (the RS-3 in particular).

Natey

iTrader: (19)

I ran a set of MXs on my blown Miata for a couple sets. They did great in the rain. They're no race tire, but definitely not dangerous in the rain or anything like that. If you're looking for something that is geared more toward the rainy days, have you checked out BFG KDWs?

I haven't been on a set of RS-3s but I've heard nothing but good things about them. Bang for the buck, they're the new Azenis.


Also, I ran 17x8 and 9 wheels on my old FC. My offset was +35 and I used 235/40 and 245/40 tires. Perfect fitment on the FC and pretty good on the FD as well. No rub, no roll, no worries.

EDIT: here's what the tread pattern on the KDWs looks like:
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Natey/RX-7/FCrear.JPG





.

ZDan

I've tracked on the RS-3 in the wet with good results. Doesn't make them good on the street in the wet in temps below ~50F ambient or cooler temps. In those conditions they kinda suck.

XS are even worse in the wet when not fully warmed up (which never happens in 99% of normal street driving).

Performance on the street and performance at the track are two different things. For a car that isn't being tracked or autoXed, no reason to sacrifice water-channeling capacity (hydroplaning resistance).

No, there are lots of tires even with big void areas that simply suck in the wet due to compounding that doesn't grip well when cool/wet. On top of that, Extreme Performance category tires have significantly reduced void area which decreases the speed at which hydroplaning will occur. This is a brute mechanical fact, regardless of compound.

For street-only usage, with wet-weather performance a priority, no reason to go with Extreme Perf category tires known to be subpar in cool/wet conditinos like RS-3 and XS.
B'stone RE11A, Yok AD08R, Direzza ZII *maybe*, but IMO for the OP's usage and priorities the Max Performance category is the place to be.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Thank you!
There is a lot of good info for me to go over here, THANK YOU !

Based on what I have read I will go with a stagger of just find a equally sized set of wheels, as rotation is something I was hoping to be able to do, and did not realize that pulling them off the wheels was more energy that is usually required.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

If there is any doubt about the respect I have for your advice, you can lay that to rest

I just think that if I go so far in that direction, that it will detract from my usage and enjoyment for what the car is used for. I love my car, but I cant even imagine doing anything that would hurt it. I just love the feel of driving it around, somehow thats enough for me...

I do get my driving in, but it is in the form of Karting, shifters and Rotax series, I have never had the opportunity to even do a track day with my car...no like minded friends....

I promise I wont mess with the sidewalls.
I will get a staggered set with proper fitment, just wanted to know if it would be OK to look at that option.

Thanks for taking the time to post!

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Thanks

I don't “want” something geared toward rain,... imo I NEED something that is very capable in rain.

This car is fun, but I need as much protection against myself as possible when it gets frequently wet and slick here in a moments notice...

That has never stopped me from enjoying driving it around, and pulling as much common sense as I can up, I think it is better to give up ultimate performance, of which I dont use currently, for a safer more conservative choice... Which I need now, and I hope I can find a suitable solution that will meet this criterion.


I can always slap a performance set of boots on my extra stockers for the day I get to use the car for its “intended” purpose.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for understanding the crux of the question...

I know this isnt a popular topic to be moderate and capable of anything but ultimate performance in optimal conditions.

But thats not how I use my car.
I use it for pure personal enjoyment on a nice day and trips, even multiple days away from my everyday car.

But it needs to, for me, be not only capable, but excel in these conditions...

When it rains after a long dry spell, the occasional freak snow fall.

I dont go looking for this trouble, but I want something that has a fighting chance against it

ZDan

Occasional freak snowfall? That changes things... If you are driving in cold conditions, probably don't want to run dedicated summer tires even if you don't have to drive in snow. You probably want a *good* all-season tire. And they aren't all good, some suck in the wet, and most suck in winter conditions.

Continental DWS would be a good bet, apparently pretty good in wet, dry, and snow: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=165

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 might work (snow performance unknown though): http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177

We put General G-Max AS-03s on the wife's Mazda3 for similar requirements (not likely to see snow, but wanted something that might at least have a chance). The car handles great on them in the wet/dry/cold. Not soft or squishy feeling at all, very engaging and fun to drive.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

IMO, I would focus on your dry and wet weather conditions since your typical possible annual snowfall is 3 inches in that area (total.... if that). If you are happy with the T1S's, just get another set of those and move on. Everyone is going to have their opinion, but it's you that will have to make the purchase.

I'm not going to try and sell you Hankooks or any other brand. That's their job.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

I dont believe the snow will be a determining factor, when conditions like this come, I do not stray far from home with the car....

But the idea is that if it were to come in a very unexpected way....early October... Just enough to make life hard, I wouldn't mind having a moderate level of ability...

More just a coping mechanism, rather than geared toward this issue.
I have never been in that situation, just to make the point clear.

I was on the way up to do some shedding...and lo and behold this fellow was keeping up with us!

And we were in a 4x4 suburban with specific hard core winter tires...
Ice and slushy conditions in places...

I, to this day, do not understand how he was keeping pace in those conditions...
And still to this day do not even know who's car it was...

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

No longer made...
And no skin off your back it sounds like


I would if I could, I feel confident in saying they were as close to perfect for me personally as I have had the pleasure of trying.

ZDan

Worst-case conditions should play a big part in your choice. Particularly given your street usage and cold weather, *good* all-seasons make the most sense if you are going to be on one set of tires. *GOOD* all-seasons will do well wet or dry in the warmer months and also OK in snow. Summers are guaranteed to suck in the snow, and won't be all that much better for street usage in warmer weather.

TIRES. Tires tires tires tires tires.
I run Dunlop WinterSports on my S2000 in the frozen months while I'm up in RI/SEMass. Run rings around fwd cars on all-seasons Good dedicated winter tires are awesome in the snow!

If wet/dry usage is way way way more important but you need some semblance of cold-weather grip, I'd go Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3.

If you really might have to drive the car in the snow, and don't want two sets of tires (summers/winters), then I'd go Conti DWS.

And of course don't rely on tire makers to "sell" you on their tires. There's a fair amount of actual data out there on how tires perform relatively. Tire Rack = great resource, use it.

More winter-weather testing awesomeness! http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=124

If I'm you, DWS even if you only *might* need to be able to get around in the white stuff.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

The idea of snow is just in the back of my mind...
I never hope to ever be in the white stuff with the 7, but if it came I would love to feel a sense of I can cope with it for ~10 miles at the absolute tops.

Just to further expound my situation.

I will never be more than 10 miles away if there were ever a condition that would have snow on the ground.

The winter duties are 325xi, a steady and stable vehicle for those conditions and beyond.

So I mean worst case scenario, I could leave the car, and just ride in a friends subi, and weather the storm easily is my feeling, back to a capable vehicle.



So to be presumptuous, I wouldn't be too disappointed if there was a perfect tire out there for me, and someone said “but its miserable in the snow”

That in itself would not deter me from picking them up if that were a fault.
But...if they were semi capable that would certainly be a great plus.

Does that help define the situation better?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

They have a replacement, but it appears their replacement doesn't come in 17's. It looks like if you want to stay with Toyo, it's the R1R or the Proxes T1 Sport for 17's.

ZDan

In that case, Pilot Sport A/S 3 (price no object, anyway).
Rated very well for responsiveness and cornering stability, and even quicker than some of the highest-performance Max Perf summer tires.
Check it out, results around the same course on the same car:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=162

If $$$ is a factor, you might consider General G-Max AS-03. Great feel, and honestly, in sub-45F ambient temps, on the street, these tires on wife's Mazda3 have more dry grip than the Michelin Pilot SuperSports on my FD.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

The reason I even really consider the Toyo as a big contender is the local tire shop deals with the brand, and if I have a problem or issue, they seem to take care of me fairly well if I have the brands they carry.


I have a quote for the R1Rs...but its around 1k...


Where are the better places to pick up tires now on price alone?

Seemed like I was 60-80% retail cost from the online sources including shipping before...

raywu729

I would make sure the overall diameter for the tire front and back is close to stock around 24.85" so that would be 245/40R17 at 24.7" with an acceptable wheel range of 8-9.5" Toyo T1S is an old tire that has been out for a while and doesn't perform that great. I've ran Toyo T1S (came with car), Bridgestone Potenza S02, Pirelli PZero Rosso, Bridgestone Potenza S-04 PP (current) on my FD. I would suggest S-04 for great dry and wet performance. Ride quality is good too since that seems important to you. It's a max performance summer tire and def not intended for snow, but can get you home if you drive slowly and carefully. I choose to stick with max performance summer tire since my FD is not my DD. I wanted great street dry and wet performance in the summer. It also grips decently for a max performance summer tire in temps below 40 compared to others. If you drive your FD a lot in winter and cold temps maybe get a ultra high performance all season tires and sacrifice some summer performance.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

What other brands do they carry? They may help narrow down a tire.


You can find capable tires for less if you don't want to spend that much. You just have to determine if the price is right for you.

I pretty much only order from Tirerack. I have ordered from DiscountTires and a few other places for brands that Tirerack didn't carry. However, Tirerack has warehouses located around the US so shipping can happen very quickly if there is one close. They have one in Indiana so I generally get my tires in 2-3 days being in Missouri. Some businesses give mounting/balancing discounts if the tires come from Tirerack which is another bonus.