HiWire

The Canadian tuner magazine, Performance Auto & Sound, gave the Toyo Proxes T1 Sport a good review: PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Toyo PROXES T1 Sport

For all-round performance, I've been looking at the Bridgestone Potenza RE760 for my daily driving car. The all-season Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS might be a good pick if you need to occasionally drive in snow. I was also looking at the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 for all-season driving – they are relatively new on the market. From online reviews, it looks like the Continental ExtremeContact DWS will be best in the snow. They've got an ugly-looking tread, though.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

Seriously, I also had a set of T1Ss (and T1Rs) on my old car. In my experience if you want a street tire that has good grip even in the rain, try or even ask around about those BFG KDWs.

I liked em so much that I bought a set for my mom's Jag.

HiWire

The BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 (summer only) also look good. The Tire Rack reviews seem to be mostly positive – their test indicated better handling than the Bridgestone RE760, while the Bridgestone tires were a little more quiet and comfortable.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Still crunching through all the information, but this was a particularly good post!

Thank you!

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for your Time and Help Gentleman!!!

Just to clarify, I think this is a more concise definition of what I am after, and looking to get help with.

For street-only usage, with cool wet-weather ability a high secondary priority.
Street driving with moderate abuse at best
Snow and ice usage highly unlikely. (have a capable vehicle for this condition)
I am going to use a staggered tire set 17x8,17x9
I like a pleasing aesthetic tread if possible
Price range, if I feel they are correct ~1k is fine, but I would like help finding the best price if its going to be the same item, why not as inexpensive source if possible.
Milage rating...whatever...longer the better, but something that feels right is a priority.
I would rather stick with more proven reliable brands if possible.

What should I be looking at specifically to make up my mind IYO based on the information above? How should I parse out the information they give me to understand what will be correct for me?

Never feel comfortable in the wheel and tire realm.

In no particular order
All prices for 235/45/17 size

Toyo R1R ($180)
Good wet performance
blend handling and performance during spirited dry-road driving with traction in wet conditions.
Multi-Width EVAC Channels improve water evacuation from the center of the tread design to help increase hydroplaning resistance
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=Proxes+R1R

Yokahama ADVAN Neova AD08 R ($216)
designed to increase grip and improve handling on dry and wet roads
The new compound develops better initial dry grip and control, while increasing wet performance and resistance to wear
Three large circumferential grooves and HydroArc Channels in the shoulders resist hydroplaning and enhance wet traction.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....N+Neova+AD08+R

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 (seems like an impressive tire)($160)
Extreme Silica Technology to increase traction at low temperatures and on wet roads
Wide circumferential grooves help resist hydroplaning, enhance wet traction
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....+Y-Speed+Rated)

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11A ($140)
good noise and ride comfort, tuned for dry and wet conditions
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....Potenza+RE-11A

Proxes T1 Sport ($215)
durability along with dry and wet traction
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....roxes+T1+Sport

Nitto Invo ($140)
Good wet tire
Invo - Luxury Sport Ultra High Performance Radial

Ecsta XS ($152)
Bad for wet street use?
ultimate level of dry road performance while maintaining wet traction
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....Model=Ecsta+XS

Hankook RS3 ($146)
narrower outboard grooves and multiple lateral grooves provide water evacuation for wet traction.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....tnum=44WR7Z222

Dunlop Direzza ZII ($160)
No mention /bad for wet street use
Dunlop’s highest level of traction and handling in warm and dry conditions
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....el=Direzza+ZII


Bridgestone Potenza S-04 (inexpensive) ($125)
designed to perform in warm, wet and dry conditions.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....+Pole+Position

BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 ($158)
superior dry and wet road performance

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....KDW2&tab=Sizes

ZDan

Tire Rack test results and customer survey results. They don't have it on all tires, but they have it on most that are of interest. Read the tests, they describe how the tires behave subjectively as well as objective results (wet and dry slalom, autoX laps, braking, skidpad)

Ignore any and all marketing! Can be highly misleading to say the least...

Since you don't track the car, there's really no reason at all to get dry-oriented Extreme Performance summer tires.
Since you do want grip in cool/cold and wet conditions, IMO you want to stay away from dedicated summer tires.

The Pilot Sport A/S 3 is clearly the way to go, IMO. Pretty close to (sometimes better than) the top Max Perf summer tires in Tire Rack's testing, and certain to be way better in cold and cold/wet conditions.

I'd go with either 225/45-17 or 245/40-17 fronts with 255/40-17 rears on your 17x8 and 17x9 wheels.

No reason not to buy from Tire Rack. Generally great prices, and also you're subsidizing more tire testing! That's the way I look at it. You can have them ship to one of their recommended installers in your area.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

May I ask a question regarding the aspect ratios and fitment?
How do you guys know which tires make the diameter and sidewalls “correct” for a specific wheel?

Is there just a calculator somewhere?
Or just experience knowing what is correct?
And what is the difference and reasoning behind picking one size over the other in your last posting giving 2 different front selections.
As well as how are you determining things like “rubbing issues” when side loaded and compressed?

Are there any other factors you tire geniuses worry about that would be good for me to consider?
Even so far as to tell me those are not good sized wheels to use...?
Always wanted a set, and got them on a deal I couldn't pass up...

Thats one thing I would want to give a large margin of room not to have to deal with, I HATE RUBBING TIRES! Already dealt with that issue, and the company purchased from never resolved the issue, even from the outset of being very vocal about no rubbing issues allowed!

I do have one of the old spread sheets, but I have not broken it out yet, and it seems like there are more factors going on with some guys than just mere fitment.

I am pretty smitten with the Pilot Sports, but its really hard for me to slam the buy button without really mulling over more information, they seem to match every request I have, and even ones I have not divulged really really well.

The only thing they dont meet, is the admittedly silly request of a “pretty tread”. And I am inclined to compromise on other factors to get a pretty tread....
But right now I feel as if it is the correct tire for me, and is sitting at my number 1 position

I have been reading the reviews, FYI
I just don't have a feel for who to trust let alone who to listen to intently.

HiWire

It's probably what you already know – most people and online calculators base things on the stock dimensions (e.g. overall diameter, circumference, tread width). Going outside stock dimensions will change your speedometer reading and possibly cause rubbing, as you've already experienced. The FD is lightweight, so tire loading shouldn't be an issue.

Some manufacturers vary more than others in their tire widths. If you are concerned with rubbing, go with a narrower width. 10mm won't make a noticeable difference in traction or handling and optimal fit is more important.

ZDan

Stock tire outside diameter is ~25". Tire Rack gives you this info for tires. Try to stay within ~24.5-25.5" OD.

Stock tires were 225/50-16. Go up in wheel diameteran inch (16" -> 17") with the same width (225mm) and generally you want to go down in aspect ratio by 5. So 225/45-17 is near stock diameter.
Go up in tire width by roughly 30mm, and you want to go down another 5 in aspect ratio. So 255/40-17 is also nearly stock diameter. But just go by the published tire diameter, simple!

On an 8" wheel, for me 235/40-17 would be about the ideal tire size to go with. But there are very few tires in this size. A LOT more options in 225/45-17 and 245/40-17. Still, you might check 235/40-17 as well. 235/45-17 also an option but would be taller than the rears, which wouldn't look too hot.... For the rears, 255/40-17 is about ideal, although you could also run 245/40-17.

With 17x8 +40 fronts, you shouldn't have any problems running 225/45-17, 235/40-17, or 245/40-17, although you might want to dial in some negative camber for that last size.

With 17x9 +38 offset rears, I don't think 255/40-17 should rub, but again you might want to dial in some negative camber to be sure.

If fenders are rolled, definitely no issues whatsoever.

Wheel sizes are fine.

More negative camber is good for handling, and will help ensure clearance. If you wanted to be extree special certain that you'd have no rub with stock, unrolled fenders, 225/45-17 fronts with 245/40-17 rears (slight "big fronts/little rears" look, though due to 25" fronts and 24.7" rears).

Form after function, particularly for tires! For one thing, they are the single most important things on your car that will determine braking/handling/off-the-line-acceleration performance. For another, you can't even see the tread pattern most of the time!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

You can use this online calculator to make sure you get a tire which is similar diameter to the stock size:

Tire Size Calculator - Discount Tire Direct


The "pretty/cool treads" are the ones that are typically more performance oriented.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

Don't put R1Rs on if you're worried at all about treadwear and getting some miles out of them. Those are street-legal weekend track tires.

Rishie (ARDT2) is the man when it comes to fitting wheels and tires onto your RX-7..or any Mazda for that matter. He can also get you a great deal on wheels and tires.

Here's an old thread from when he hooked me up. Shoot him a PM, I'll bet he can help out. (I don't work for the guy, I'm just a happy customer)
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w...-ardt2-499873/

ZDan

Tread pattern might give an inkling regarding hydroplaning resistance, but says nothing about actual wet or dry grip.



The one on the left definitely looks cooler, but guess which one was 1.5 seconds quicker around a dry autoX course?

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Total forgot to ask about this...
Why did this happen, anyone care to postulate beyond the tire touched it??
Absolutely nothing to my recollection should have ever caused this to happen!
Are there any issues with offset or was it just bad luck ?

Front wheel is a 17 x 8

Rear wheel is a 17 x 9

Everything was within range of the calculators here... IIRC it was the Jimlab spreadsheet, and I have no modifications in this area that would ever cause a difference from the stock clearances...
Any speculation of help to put my mind at ease that this shouldn't have/be happening...

ZDan

Definitely the tire bent the lip. I got the exact same thing running 255/40-17 on +40 offset front wheels with limited camber.

235/45-17 is a little tall, 235/40-17 or 225/45-17 probably wouldn't rub. You might dial in some negative camber, though, to reduce the likelihood. Or have the fenders rolled.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Another important factor I am going to do before putting on new boots...

Alignment...

I have complete brand new bushings throughout, sphericals as well, and the last alignment didn't really do too well on the poor tires...
Is there any alignment tips that I should consider?
I went with a “off standard OEM” last time because it was supposedly a better solution...
But I believe the old bushings had a bit to do with the tire wear issues I was having...

Any advice on that front?
Tips like making sure they center the steering wheel correctly, as well as center the links ect...
(they didnt last time...errrr! And I explicitly asked to make sure beforehand! )

Any wear points that I could check before sending it in to be adjusted.

Should I mark the existing positioning, as well as the new positioning when completed?

Any bone head issues that can be made I can avoid, on both my end as well as theirs?

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

My thought on the issue would be I would rather pick up any issues in sizing if possible.
Not rolling the fenders if possible...
Nor camber if I can help it...
Not really living on the edge of whats possible.
To be honest what I would like is to have those in my back pocket only as a “fix” if and when this where to happen again with a conservative sizing.

I really dont want to deal with those issues if at all possible in the future !
Its going to be hard to repair that paint correctly as it is...

Should the 235/45-17 ever have had a problem???
Why would that have happened with a 235/45-17?

No plans to go back to 235/45-17, they came with the wheels...
And supposedly where working “fine” on another Stock car...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Just roll the front fenders and move on. I have no idea why people balk at this so much. Unless you plan on getting different wheels, just do a slight roll on the front and move on. Sure, you can dial in more camber but you'll increase your inside wear and make the car more darty on the streets. Given that you aren't looking for all out performance tires, I would recommend not creating a "performance" alignment with more aggressive camber just to avoid a little fender roll.

ZDan

I take the opposite view. I'd much rather go with decent camber than have to roll fenders. Even with a professional doing it, rolling fenders can and often does result in waviness. And near-zero camber hurts performance, while camber up to even -2 degrees doesn't hurt tire life much, maybe 10%. Certainly it's a MUCH smaller effect on tire wear than toe.

I've always run about -1.25 front and -2.25 rear on the S2000 (max stock limits), and get remarkably even wear on the main tread grooves. The inner tread blocks do wear down a bit sooner, but I still get 18-20k miles on very low treadwear Extreme Performance tires like Dunlop StarSpecs and Hankook RS-3s.

For me, even for a street-only sports car, I'd want camber in the range of -1 to -2 degrees. I run the max I can get on the S2000, and -2.75 front, -1.75 rear on the RX-7. Even this much camber is quite streetable, as long as toe is kept *minimal*.

I run zero front, 0.2 degrees total toe-in rear on the S2000, and currently running 0.1 degrees total toe-in front and rear on the FD.

To amplify the importance of toe, I used to try to run 0.64 degrees total rear toe-in on the s2000 due to bad advice from the S2ki forum. Quirky handling and rear tire life was ~6000-8000 miles. I better than doubled tire life going to 0.2 degrees total! Keeping camber at the same levels mentioned above.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The thing is, it's just masking the problem. If/when he chooses to go with larger/wider front wheel, he'll still have yet the exact same issue. Just fix the real problem and move on. Let's also not forget what increasing camber is "supposed" to be for... It's to increase the contact patch during cornering. If he's increasing the camber but not cornering like it's on a race track, he's actually driving around with a less than ideal contact patch for his usage which again, is the wrong solution to the problem.

ZDan

If running a bit more camber prevents the tire from contacting the fender lip, it has *solved* the problem.

But for now he's on 8" front wheels, and should be going to a smaller diameter tire and possibly also narrower. Just going to a 225/45-17 or 235/40-17 by itself might eliminate the issue.

It's not a case of "just" rolling the fenders. Even professionals aren't perfect, and there are a *lot* of wavy fenders out there from this procedure.

1.5 and even 2 degrees negative camber is not going to have you rolling around on the inside edge of the tire. Contact patch will still be a nice oval, only offset a little more relative to the inside of tire centerline. You're still riding on good "working" tire tread driving straight down the road.

I've run more than 2 degrees on my street cars for years, and the wear pattern on my street-only tires bears this out. Fairly even wear across the four main circumferential tread grooves at 20k miles on the rear RS-3s on my s2000. The inside groove might get to the wear bars with the outside groove still having 1/32 to go, but this is minimal and totally acceptable asymmetric wear at end of life.

Also, consider that -1.5 and even -2 isn't unheard of as a factory OEM alignment spec for the rear of many cars (FD max rear spec is -2). Tires are designed to deal with this amount of camber and even more.

With 225/45-17 or 235/40-17 fronts on 8" +40 front wheels, I don't think rolling should be necessary and might not be worth the risk to the OP. I'm running much wider 255/40-17s up front at the track on the same +40 offset, and pretty low (24.9" front fender opening height), so for me, it was necessary.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

That's a load of crap there.. If he seeks to roll them flat, yes, that can affect the fender. Just rolling the edge back a little from a professional will not cause a wavy fender. Good lord you exaggerate everything to try and make your points better.

ZDan

It is a risk. And it's totally unnecessary with 225/45-17 or 235/40-17 tires on +40 wheels with *perfectly reasonable camber*. -1 would probably do it, but absolutely no good reason not to go -1.5 even for a totally street-driven car

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

I rolled my own fenders with a hand weight and a mini torch .. and it was far from difficult or lengthy and it worked like a charm.

ZDan

But for 225/45-17 or 235/40-17 on +40 offset, it's just not necessary. Up to you, OP, personally I wouldn't bother.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

I rolled my fenders with a baseball bat in one hand and a Stella Artois in the other. It turned out pretty good, I think.
17x10 +50 with 265/40 all 'round. No rub even at full lock, even bombing down the Rainey Curve.

http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Nat...mudguards2.jpg




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