Suspesion bushings
09-13-06, 04:56 AM
#2
What kind of car do you have (FB, FC, FD)?
And why do you want to replace the bushings (worn out, want sharper response, tend to fall asleep while driving and need to be constantly woken up, trying to help dentist/chiropractor buy a vacation home, like to jack up your car and put mirrors on the ground to see fancy stuff under the car, etc.)?
-Max
And why do you want to replace the bushings (worn out, want sharper response, tend to fall asleep while driving and need to be constantly woken up, trying to help dentist/chiropractor buy a vacation home, like to jack up your car and put mirrors on the ground to see fancy stuff under the car, etc.)?
-Max
09-15-06, 09:50 PM
#4
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I'm curious as well. I've been looking at the SuperPro GB but it's taking forever and I need them ASAP, and I'd also like to know other options, besides the Delrin (not that the Delrins are out of the question, just want more options).
09-16-06, 02:01 AM
#5
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I just picked up a prothane total bushing kit off ebay for my FC for $80 shipped. It's not as complete as the prothane kit I have on my SRT-4 but it's still a good start to take the slop out or the chasis.
09-17-06, 12:39 PM
#6
Max Your Funny!
Originally Posted by maxcooper
What kind of car do you have (FB, FC, FD)?
And why do you want to replace the bushings (worn out, want sharper response, tend to fall asleep while driving and need to be constantly woken up, trying to help dentist/chiropractor buy a vacation home, like to jack up your car and put mirrors on the ground to see fancy stuff under the car, etc.)?
-Max
And why do you want to replace the bushings (worn out, want sharper response, tend to fall asleep while driving and need to be constantly woken up, trying to help dentist/chiropractor buy a vacation home, like to jack up your car and put mirrors on the ground to see fancy stuff under the car, etc.)?
-Max
-Jeff
09-18-06, 11:08 AM
#7
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GRP a dirt track urethane specialist is starting to make poly-urea bushings for the Mazda RX-7's. They plan to start making urethane for all types of makes and models within the next few months. GRP is going to have an introductory price especially for the RX-7 owners. The price is going to start out at $450.00 for a full set if they can get 50 orders within the next 30 days. Please contact via email to info@gilbertracingproducts.com for more info.
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09-18-06, 11:17 AM
#8
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^thanks for the heads up. Would there be much difference between a setup for dirt and one for street and/or track? Anyone?
Last edited by speedjunkie; 09-18-06 at 11:19 AM.
09-23-06, 03:49 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by claborn1
What are the best bushings out there to buy?
This is the 18 piece kit.
White = Front lower A-arm front bushings.
Black = Front lower A-arm rear bushings.
Yellow = Front upper A-arm bushings.
Pink = Differential bushings.
Green = Rear upper A-arm to body bushings.
Blue = Rear A-arm to shock absorber bushings.
Orange = Rear trailing arm bushings.
Each bushing has an internal Lube Groove grease reservoir to help alleviate maintenance and maximize their lifespan. This is the only RX7 suspension bushing that has this feature.
Each kit comes with a 14oz can of Teflon (PTFE) grease and application brush for installation.
Here is some more information you may find interesting...
Originally Posted by hotrodrx7
I have them on my car. They are really well made and the ride is not harsh at all.
Originally Posted by fd3s7007
excellent product. i swapped them in together with all other pillowball and lets just say its smooth and responsive. i'm on stock bilsteins and its not as noisy as anticipated. my exhauset is too loud to actually notice reported drivetrain noises so its all good.
tiresmokin7- is an excellent seller. shipped items out to Malaysia at no extra cost and they arrived much earlier than expected. Thanks matey!!
tiresmokin7- is an excellent seller. shipped items out to Malaysia at no extra cost and they arrived much earlier than expected. Thanks matey!!
Originally Posted by unnerv
As far as handling is concerned there is a noticable difference in the curves. The car feels SOLID. I just had a base alignment done for now so the car wasn't so twitchy. I plan to get it corner weighted in the next month or so. Turned out the caster on one of the front corners was off by 5 degrees which shows how shot my old bushings were. Everything is so tight now. No longer hit my head on the roof over the expansion joints, no clunking, incredible in the corners.
After driving for a couple of days I noticed the car is a bit noisier, esp at low speed you can hear the diff. So if you are sensitive to noise you may want to skip the diff busings and stick with rubber. Once up to speed it is drowned out by tire noise and such tho.
After driving for a couple of days I noticed the car is a bit noisier, esp at low speed you can hear the diff. So if you are sensitive to noise you may want to skip the diff busings and stick with rubber. Once up to speed it is drowned out by tire noise and such tho.
Originally Posted by unnerv
The ride is not bad. If you check back a couple of pages I left some comments. It is a little noisier overall, but nothing to complain about. Unfortunately I have never ridden in a stock FD so I can't compare. I bought mine with tien coilovers. Since I had 130K on the stock bushing/pillowballs the ride actually is less harsh after the bushings.
Originally Posted by byrden
I'm surprised these bushings aren't on more running cars, maybe people are too busy having fun.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
Originally Posted by Unknown_ssk
the turns feel really good but with only the fronts installed the car feels squirly in back compared to the front. i'm installing the rears in december, as i am in college and have no access to tools or anywhere to do the work. i can let everyone know if they want to wait that long...
Same person 100 miles later posted this on TC…
Originally Posted by BlackR1
I installed the front ones already and have driven on the front ones for approx. 100 miles. the car ride isn't to harsh at all. i have all original equipment suspension wise. the car did have 140k miles on it. the driving difference in the front is incredible. the front of the car handles corners no problems. now all i have to do is take care of the back ones...
Originally Posted by Julian
The nylon, delrin, rigid polureathane bushing question and the JimLab nylon delrin debate.
First yes, Delrin (r) is a DuPont tradename product and still only source for momopolymer Acetal just as MS is still sole source for "Windows (r)". A simlilar product ,"Celcon (r)", copolymer Acetal is available from Celanese, copolymers are easier to produce but have reduced mechanical properties.
This does not make Delrin better or worst than polyamides or nylon as it is known, only newer. "Nylon" was also a DuPont invention and tradename that was not protected as well. Delrin was later developed by duPont as a simliar application plastic that had outstanding abrasion and fatigue properties.
The attributes of these materials for the required application is what is important, not the source, name or price. In no particular order:
1 machinability - can you make the bushing as desired (Delrin best) (Polyureathane molded no machined)
2 abrasion restistance - will the bushing wear out with dirt and road grime (Delrin best)
3 stiffness - is it stiff enough for function, rigid without harshness (otherwise use metal on metal)nylon delrin similar, Poly softer
4 fatigue resistance - with it break down after prolonged use and get sloppy (Delrin best)
5 impact strength - toughest to weakest: Delrin 1.4, Celron 1.3, Nylon 1.0, Poly ~ .7
5 dimensional stability, dry wet, oiled, tared etc. - will it swell up and bind or srink and get loose
6 low friction, for linear stiffness - will it bind, does it need lubricating - Delrin more self lubricating than nylon which in itself is good.
You pick!
First yes, Delrin (r) is a DuPont tradename product and still only source for momopolymer Acetal just as MS is still sole source for "Windows (r)". A simlilar product ,"Celcon (r)", copolymer Acetal is available from Celanese, copolymers are easier to produce but have reduced mechanical properties.
This does not make Delrin better or worst than polyamides or nylon as it is known, only newer. "Nylon" was also a DuPont invention and tradename that was not protected as well. Delrin was later developed by duPont as a simliar application plastic that had outstanding abrasion and fatigue properties.
The attributes of these materials for the required application is what is important, not the source, name or price. In no particular order:
1 machinability - can you make the bushing as desired (Delrin best) (Polyureathane molded no machined)
2 abrasion restistance - will the bushing wear out with dirt and road grime (Delrin best)
3 stiffness - is it stiff enough for function, rigid without harshness (otherwise use metal on metal)nylon delrin similar, Poly softer
4 fatigue resistance - with it break down after prolonged use and get sloppy (Delrin best)
5 impact strength - toughest to weakest: Delrin 1.4, Celron 1.3, Nylon 1.0, Poly ~ .7
5 dimensional stability, dry wet, oiled, tared etc. - will it swell up and bind or srink and get loose
6 low friction, for linear stiffness - will it bind, does it need lubricating - Delrin more self lubricating than nylon which in itself is good.
You pick!
09-23-06, 05:06 PM
#12
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https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...2&page=1&pp=15
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ight=powerflex
A couple more options, SuperPro and Powerflex. Anyone have any more?
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ight=powerflex
A couple more options, SuperPro and Powerflex. Anyone have any more?
09-23-06, 11:11 PM
#13
For my money, I'd buy stock or the upgraded Mazdaspeed bushings. Unless its strictly a track car. The FD just doesn't really need super hard bushings on the street. I've read various threads (and spoken with various people who got ride of them) about people who have gone back to stock or Mazdaspeed bushings.
09-24-06, 10:49 PM
#14
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Labor aside it’s $850 to $1000 for stock rubber bushings, $1500 for Mazda Speed rubber bushings or $500 for precision machined Dupont Delrin bushings with the Lube Groove grease reservoirs. Decisions decisions... 
I haven't seen any complaints from any of these people who have the Delrin Lube Groove bushings but I have gotten lots of compliments.
The First Batch List
1. hotrodrx7
2. cozmo kraemer
3. Unnerve
4. bustadog
5. BryanDowns
6. Crash Test Joey
7. BOOSTD 7
8. Ingraham
9. RX7_Fanatic
10. rxetera
11. 95MX6
12. power hungry
13. Chinaman
14. sherman2k
15. afgmoto1978
16. Helios
17. ddkkww888
18. herblenny
19. DCrosby
20. 20B 3rd Gen
21. Eddie Ramos
22. SPICcnmGT
23. Mazda Bait
24. dwood432
25. payne
26. Northern7
27. rob20rx7
28. 1FunR1
The Second Batch List
1. Doc-1
2. Spank
3. shtupid99
4. Marek
5. jgtcspec7
6. Unknown_ssk
7. TexH20racer
8. HDP
9. r0t0rhead
10. jdtanksley
11. o0Dan0o
12. PureMdMa
13. WNEC98
14. Atom94FD
15. toddm
16. SiKoPaThX
17. Azrae1
18. ratincat
19. byrden
20. hellokitty812
21. Speedworks
22. Speedworks
23. Swolbynos
24. Wankelspin
25. Tremer
26. raideon
27. fd3s7007
28. ShogunOfHarlem
29. timX
30. Turbo95Max
31. sanh43
32. ninjarx7
33. Mid_KnightFD
34. Silver_FD
35. gnx7
36. darkslide750
37. rob20rx7
38. Bill B
So you must have found a few folks that were unhappy with their Unobtainium bushings out of the 200 to 300 kits sold. It's understandable that out of that many race prepped cars a few would want a less aggressive suspension. I know of only one person, Max Cooper. I believe he also found some bad suspension components when he changed his back to stock to the tune of $500+ each upper front A-arm (ouch). His RX7 also had all of the big boy full race toys. Including a rear shock tower mounted M2 roll cage for noise amplification and Gab Super-R coilovers known for the harshest riding shocks yet best performance and a Tri-Point racing sway bar with heimed links adding to a compromised ride quality. These are just a few of the items that he had on his street driving track car.
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/my_car/index.html
Even if only half of the kits sold were installed, there are far more happy precision suspension drivers then unhappy. But if these aren't right for you, that's understandable. Gab Super-R shocks, Tri-Point sway bars and M2 roll cages aren't for everyone either…
I haven't seen any complaints from any of these people who have the Delrin Lube Groove bushings but I have gotten lots of compliments.
The First Batch List
1. hotrodrx7
2. cozmo kraemer
3. Unnerve
4. bustadog
5. BryanDowns
6. Crash Test Joey
7. BOOSTD 7
8. Ingraham
9. RX7_Fanatic
10. rxetera
11. 95MX6
12. power hungry
13. Chinaman
14. sherman2k
15. afgmoto1978
16. Helios
17. ddkkww888
18. herblenny
19. DCrosby
20. 20B 3rd Gen
21. Eddie Ramos
22. SPICcnmGT
23. Mazda Bait
24. dwood432
25. payne
26. Northern7
27. rob20rx7
28. 1FunR1
The Second Batch List
1. Doc-1
2. Spank
3. shtupid99
4. Marek
5. jgtcspec7
6. Unknown_ssk
7. TexH20racer
8. HDP
9. r0t0rhead
10. jdtanksley
11. o0Dan0o
12. PureMdMa
13. WNEC98
14. Atom94FD
15. toddm
16. SiKoPaThX
17. Azrae1
18. ratincat
19. byrden
20. hellokitty812
21. Speedworks
22. Speedworks
23. Swolbynos
24. Wankelspin
25. Tremer
26. raideon
27. fd3s7007
28. ShogunOfHarlem
29. timX
30. Turbo95Max
31. sanh43
32. ninjarx7
33. Mid_KnightFD
34. Silver_FD
35. gnx7
36. darkslide750
37. rob20rx7
38. Bill B
So you must have found a few folks that were unhappy with their Unobtainium bushings out of the 200 to 300 kits sold. It's understandable that out of that many race prepped cars a few would want a less aggressive suspension. I know of only one person, Max Cooper. I believe he also found some bad suspension components when he changed his back to stock to the tune of $500+ each upper front A-arm (ouch). His RX7 also had all of the big boy full race toys. Including a rear shock tower mounted M2 roll cage for noise amplification and Gab Super-R coilovers known for the harshest riding shocks yet best performance and a Tri-Point racing sway bar with heimed links adding to a compromised ride quality. These are just a few of the items that he had on his street driving track car.
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/my_car/index.html
Even if only half of the kits sold were installed, there are far more happy precision suspension drivers then unhappy. But if these aren't right for you, that's understandable. Gab Super-R shocks, Tri-Point sway bars and M2 roll cages aren't for everyone either…
09-24-06, 10:54 PM
#15
Is that comment is directed toward me? I didn't say anything bad about Delrin bushings...
Max, pomanferrari and I think it was Gene Felber (or someone from WA) that wound up going back to stock bushings from Jimlabs old Delrin bushings. Those are the people this board would be most familiar with.
The Mazdaspeed bushings are priced same as stock if not a bit better depending on whether or not your an SCCA member / Mazda registered racer. Iirc they are about 40% stiffer. Stock can be bought from Malloy Mazda for about 60 each. Don't know where you are getting 1,500 from.
But like you said and like I stated in my original post - "For my money"
Different strokes for different folks
I'm sure Delrin is what some people want.
Max, pomanferrari and I think it was Gene Felber (or someone from WA) that wound up going back to stock bushings from Jimlabs old Delrin bushings. Those are the people this board would be most familiar with.
The Mazdaspeed bushings are priced same as stock if not a bit better depending on whether or not your an SCCA member / Mazda registered racer. Iirc they are about 40% stiffer. Stock can be bought from Malloy Mazda for about 60 each. Don't know where you are getting 1,500 from.
But like you said and like I stated in my original post - "For my money"
Different strokes for different folks
I'm sure Delrin is what some people want.
Last edited by gracer7-rx7; 09-24-06 at 11:08 PM.
09-25-06, 02:17 AM
#16
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Ray at Malloy gives us a healthy discount off of the suggested retail price. MazdaSpeed doesn't. Rays last “sale” prices on suspension bushings:
Full front suspension bushing kit, all 4 front control arms, 14 pieces, $330 shipped.
Full rear suspension bushing kit, all 4 rear control arms, 10 pieces, $380 shipped.
Differential bushings, 2 pieces, $115 shipped.
It was $825 not $850, oops. Retail list is about what, $1,000?
Last I heard Mazdaspeed won't even sell us parts without being a registered racer any more. Some links to prices:
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...86&postcount=3
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...71&postcount=1
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=20
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...63&postcount=2
Since I'm not a registered racer I have to take their word for it. The $1500 price was just something I recalled seeing sometime ago.
Jim never made a Delrin bushing friend. His were made of Nylon.
Full front suspension bushing kit, all 4 front control arms, 14 pieces, $330 shipped.
Full rear suspension bushing kit, all 4 rear control arms, 10 pieces, $380 shipped.
Differential bushings, 2 pieces, $115 shipped.
It was $825 not $850, oops. Retail list is about what, $1,000?
Last I heard Mazdaspeed won't even sell us parts without being a registered racer any more. Some links to prices:
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...86&postcount=3
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...71&postcount=1
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=20
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...63&postcount=2
Since I'm not a registered racer I have to take their word for it. The $1500 price was just something I recalled seeing sometime ago.
Jim never made a Delrin bushing friend. His were made of Nylon.
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