Another suspension bushing alternative...
09-01-06, 01:08 PM
#1
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Another suspension bushing alternative...
This is NOT to put some extra oil on the bushing fire as already is.
I have myself ordered a Delrin kit, I'm also interested in the Suprpro kit but as none of these items have thorough R&D background (which I totally understand given the costs it would bring) I searched also locally (Europe and UK)
Now, in the UK there has been a supplier of such parts for years and they have established quite a name in the street, track and rally world.
Unfortunately there website does not indicate this parts, but after a quick mail I got a hold of this file.
The choice is yours
Please mention prices stated in Britisch pounds
www.Powerflex.co.uk
I have myself ordered a Delrin kit, I'm also interested in the Suprpro kit but as none of these items have thorough R&D background (which I totally understand given the costs it would bring) I searched also locally (Europe and UK)
Now, in the UK there has been a supplier of such parts for years and they have established quite a name in the street, track and rally world.
Unfortunately there website does not indicate this parts, but after a quick mail I got a hold of this file.
The choice is yours
Please mention prices stated in Britisch pounds
www.Powerflex.co.uk
09-01-06, 05:22 PM
#2
Wow, I was not aware that Powerflex made bushings for the FD. I would keep the stock bushing #8 (since the stock part is a pillow ball suspended in rubber), but I think the rest are fine.
-Max
-Max
09-01-06, 06:13 PM
#3
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
HY Max, I have searched their site many times for this, but as this seems to be a quite hot issue on the forum here, I sent them a mail and I got this reply.
It seems you know the company and as said before they have been in this business for quite some years, have R&D background for the material being used.
These are the US distributors:
SPA Technique, Inc
1209 Indy Way Indianapolis,
IN, USA,
46214
tel: (+1) 317 271 7941
fax: (+1) 317 271 7951
email: matthew@spatechnique.com
web: SPA Technique, Inc
BIMMERWORLD
1210 Grove Avenue,
Radford
VA-24141
tel: 540 639 9648
email: info@bimmerworld.com
web: BIMMERWORLD
INTERNATIONAL AUTO PARTS(ALFA SPECIALIST ONLY)
4351 Seminole Trail,
Charlottesville,
VA22911
email: mlee@autosportcatalog.com
It seems you know the company and as said before they have been in this business for quite some years, have R&D background for the material being used.
These are the US distributors:
SPA Technique, Inc
1209 Indy Way Indianapolis,
IN, USA,
46214
tel: (+1) 317 271 7941
fax: (+1) 317 271 7951
email: matthew@spatechnique.com
web: SPA Technique, Inc
BIMMERWORLD
1210 Grove Avenue,
Radford
VA-24141
tel: 540 639 9648
email: info@bimmerworld.com
web: BIMMERWORLD
INTERNATIONAL AUTO PARTS(ALFA SPECIALIST ONLY)
4351 Seminole Trail,
Charlottesville,
VA22911
email: mlee@autosportcatalog.com
09-02-06, 05:33 AM
#5
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They still seam a little high priced though. 
The 297 exchange from British Pounds to US Dollars came out to $565.88.
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/co...submit=Convert
That still doesn't include the rear shock or pricy and much needed differential bushings but does include the rear lower inside bushings and the front and rear sway bar bushings.
This will hurt wanklin's group buy the hardest. These front Polyurethane control arm bushings look to be ready to ship. Last I heard, wanklin's are still waiting for R&D testing with no expected completion date known yet. I wonder how his prices compare, anybody know how much the SuperPro fronts cost? Last I saw the rear bushings alone were $500+.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=561179
[Shameless Plug=ON]
You didn't think I'd pass this up did you?
It still looks like my $500 18 piece Delrin Lube Groove bushing kits are still the best bang for the buck high performance bushing kit for the RX7’s.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...87#post5928387
There are plenty more Derlin testimonials in the Delrin Lube Groove bushing group buy thread for those who are interested...
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...47#post5723447
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...65#post5769265
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...93#post5944293
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...32#post5748232
This is the Delrin 18 piece kit.
White = Front lower A-arm front bushings.
Black = Front lower A-arm rear bushings.
Yellow = Front upper A-arm bushings.
Pink = Differential bushings.
Green = Rear upper A-arm to body bushings.
Blue = Rear A-arm to shock absorber bushings.
Orange = Rear trailing arm bushings.
Each bushing has an internal Lube Groove grease reservoir to help alleviate maintenance and maximize their lifespan. No other RX7 suspension bushing has this feature.
If you want on the interested list for the next Delrin group buy PM me or post in the thread.
https://www.rx7club.com/group-buy-center-69/possible-gb-fd-delrin-suspension-bushings-506081/page42/
[/Shameless Plug]
Thanks for your time,
Steve
The 297 exchange from British Pounds to US Dollars came out to $565.88.
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/co...submit=Convert
That still doesn't include the rear shock or pricy and much needed differential bushings but does include the rear lower inside bushings and the front and rear sway bar bushings.
This will hurt wanklin's group buy the hardest. These front Polyurethane control arm bushings look to be ready to ship. Last I heard, wanklin's are still waiting for R&D testing with no expected completion date known yet. I wonder how his prices compare, anybody know how much the SuperPro fronts cost? Last I saw the rear bushings alone were $500+.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=561179
[Shameless Plug=ON]
You didn't think I'd pass this up did you?
It still looks like my $500 18 piece Delrin Lube Groove bushing kits are still the best bang for the buck high performance bushing kit for the RX7’s.
Originally Posted by byrden
I'm surprised these bushings aren't on more running cars, maybe people are too busy having fun.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
There are plenty more Derlin testimonials in the Delrin Lube Groove bushing group buy thread for those who are interested...
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...47#post5723447
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...65#post5769265
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...93#post5944293
Originally Posted by Julian
The nylon, delrin, rigid polureathane bushing question and the JimLab nylon delrin debate.
First yes, Delrin (r) is a DuPont tradename product and still only source for momopolymer Acetal just as MS is still sole source for "Windows (r)". A simlilar product ,"Celcon (r)", copolymer Acetal is available from Celanese, copolymers are easier to produce but have reduced mechanical properties.
This does not make Delrin better or worst than polyamides or nylon as it is known, only newer. "Nylon" was also a DuPont invention and tradename that was not protected as well. Delrin was later developed by duPont as a simliar application plastic that had outstanding abrasion and fatigue properties.
The attributes of these materials for the required application is what is important, not the source, name or price. In no particular order:
1 machinability - can you make the bushing as desired (Delrin best) (Polyureathane molded no machined)
2 abrasion restistance - will the bushing wear out with dirt and road grime (Delrin best)
3 stiffness - is it stiff enough for function, rigid without harshness (otherwise use metal on metal)nylon delrin similar, Poly softer
4 fatigue resistance - with it break down after prolonged use and get sloppy (Delrin best)
5 impact strength - toughest to weakest: Delrin 1.4, Celron 1.3, Nylon 1.0, Poly ~ .7
5 dimensional stability, dry wet, oiled, tared etc. - will it swell up and bind or srink and get loose
6 low friction, for linear stiffness - will it bind, does it need lubricating - Delrin more self lubricating than nylon which in itself is good.
You pick!
First yes, Delrin (r) is a DuPont tradename product and still only source for momopolymer Acetal just as MS is still sole source for "Windows (r)". A simlilar product ,"Celcon (r)", copolymer Acetal is available from Celanese, copolymers are easier to produce but have reduced mechanical properties.
This does not make Delrin better or worst than polyamides or nylon as it is known, only newer. "Nylon" was also a DuPont invention and tradename that was not protected as well. Delrin was later developed by duPont as a simliar application plastic that had outstanding abrasion and fatigue properties.
The attributes of these materials for the required application is what is important, not the source, name or price. In no particular order:
1 machinability - can you make the bushing as desired (Delrin best) (Polyureathane molded no machined)
2 abrasion restistance - will the bushing wear out with dirt and road grime (Delrin best)
3 stiffness - is it stiff enough for function, rigid without harshness (otherwise use metal on metal)nylon delrin similar, Poly softer
4 fatigue resistance - with it break down after prolonged use and get sloppy (Delrin best)
5 impact strength - toughest to weakest: Delrin 1.4, Celron 1.3, Nylon 1.0, Poly ~ .7
5 dimensional stability, dry wet, oiled, tared etc. - will it swell up and bind or srink and get loose
6 low friction, for linear stiffness - will it bind, does it need lubricating - Delrin more self lubricating than nylon which in itself is good.
You pick!
This is the Delrin 18 piece kit.
White = Front lower A-arm front bushings.
Black = Front lower A-arm rear bushings.
Yellow = Front upper A-arm bushings.
Pink = Differential bushings.
Green = Rear upper A-arm to body bushings.
Blue = Rear A-arm to shock absorber bushings.
Orange = Rear trailing arm bushings.
Each bushing has an internal Lube Groove grease reservoir to help alleviate maintenance and maximize their lifespan. No other RX7 suspension bushing has this feature.
If you want on the interested list for the next Delrin group buy PM me or post in the thread.
https://www.rx7club.com/group-buy-center-69/possible-gb-fd-delrin-suspension-bushings-506081/page42/
[/Shameless Plug]
Thanks for your time,
Steve
09-02-06, 06:55 AM
#6
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Hy Steve,
Like I stated in my first post, I have no intention to harm anyone in any way with this post.
Just like Mazdaspeed or any other bushing supplier for that matter, it seems that Powerflex has an alternative as well.
True, they are a little higher priced and the kit does not include as much parts as yours or anybody elses.
I have no gain by posting this in any way either.
It's up to everybody's budget, interest and feeling which kit/parts to buy.
Though, I must add that, despite the good testimonials of your bushings (which I also bought, still not received though since June) do not pass as thorough R&D. Which I am sure Powerflex stands for.
That being said, I hope this adds another (price worthy) alternative to the small market of FD bushings, leaving it to the owners to decide what to buy.
Neal
Like I stated in my first post, I have no intention to harm anyone in any way with this post.
Just like Mazdaspeed or any other bushing supplier for that matter, it seems that Powerflex has an alternative as well.
True, they are a little higher priced and the kit does not include as much parts as yours or anybody elses.
I have no gain by posting this in any way either.
It's up to everybody's budget, interest and feeling which kit/parts to buy.
Though, I must add that, despite the good testimonials of your bushings (which I also bought, still not received though since June) do not pass as thorough R&D. Which I am sure Powerflex stands for.
That being said, I hope this adds another (price worthy) alternative to the small market of FD bushings, leaving it to the owners to decide what to buy.
Neal
09-02-06, 06:59 PM
#7
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Speedworks
This is NOT to put some extra oil on the bushing fire as already is.
I have myself ordered a Delrin kit, I'm also interested in the Suprpro kit but as none of these items have thorough R&D background (which I totally understand given the costs it would bring) I searched also locally (Europe and UK)
Now, in the UK there has been a supplier of such parts for years and they have established quite a name in the street, track and rally world.
Unfortunately there website does not indicate this parts, but after a quick mail I got a hold of this file.
The choice is yours
Please mention prices stated in Britisch pounds
www.Powerflex.co.uk
I have myself ordered a Delrin kit, I'm also interested in the Suprpro kit but as none of these items have thorough R&D background (which I totally understand given the costs it would bring) I searched also locally (Europe and UK)
Now, in the UK there has been a supplier of such parts for years and they have established quite a name in the street, track and rally world.
Unfortunately there website does not indicate this parts, but after a quick mail I got a hold of this file.
The choice is yours
Please mention prices stated in Britisch pounds
www.Powerflex.co.uk
EDIT:
After a PM I have found out that SuprPro has some R&D background so to set this straight the Delrins are the only ones lacking this (in an official way, but with good testimonials from the users)
This to set the record straight, don't feel affended...
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09-03-06, 10:30 AM
#8
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Powerflex until recently DID NOT do an FD kit. They posted up in the european section and one of the guys took his FD down there.
He seems to be very happy with the setup, and the pricing is about the same as the SuperPro stuff.
Fish
He seems to be very happy with the setup, and the pricing is about the same as the SuperPro stuff.
Fish
09-03-06, 04:01 PM
#9
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Julian did an outstanding job of explaining the many reasons Delrin is the obvious choice for precision performance suspension bushing material. It’s no wonder Delrin bushings typically cost several times what the Polyurethane bushings cost on cars that have the Delrin option. If anyone chooses any Polyurethane bushing after reading that, nothing could persuade them from it. It was my personal choice to replace some squeaking Polyurethane bushings that fell apart on another project with Delrin bushings. So I’m not worried about another inferior bushing that costs more hitting the market. Don’t get me wrong, I have had some good experiences with it. Polyurethane works well in non twisting locations for vibration isolation. Sway bar end links, rack and pinion mounts and differential bushings on non track cars would be areas it’s well suited. From the testimonies of people who have used the Delrin bushings, no sacrifices in handling performance is needed for smooth, silent and comfortable control arm bushings. Why pay more?
I have sold over 60 kits to New Zealand, Malaysia, Belgium, Canada, United Kingdom and United States. Jimlab has stated he’s sold over 250 solid precision bushing kits. As Jimlab likes to point out, I didn’t invent the use of solid precision bushings. They have been used for over 6 years in third gen RX7’s and Delrin has been used by MazdaSpeed in other models. That is testing no FD Polyurethane bushing can come close to claiming. Sure, there are some minor differences between Jim’s Nylon bushings and my bushings. My bushings are machined from slightly better DuPont materials and have the Lube Groove grease reservoir for even longer life. Technically I guess I shouldn’t consider my bushings have 6 years testing but I do...
Neal (Speedworks), since you brought up not recieveing your Delrin bushings yet, here’s the information.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...peedwSmall.jpg
I would start to be concerned at this point. New Zealand, Canada, Malaysia and the 35+ USA folks from batch 2 have received theirs within a few weeks. I remember having concerns about your package because you had your address listed two ways within Paypal and I wouldn’t send your bushings until you confirmed the address. Did you call the phone numbers I gave you? The bushings have to have made it past your customs by now. Feel free to PM me if I can help any further.
I have sold over 60 kits to New Zealand, Malaysia, Belgium, Canada, United Kingdom and United States. Jimlab has stated he’s sold over 250 solid precision bushing kits. As Jimlab likes to point out, I didn’t invent the use of solid precision bushings. They have been used for over 6 years in third gen RX7’s and Delrin has been used by MazdaSpeed in other models. That is testing no FD Polyurethane bushing can come close to claiming. Sure, there are some minor differences between Jim’s Nylon bushings and my bushings. My bushings are machined from slightly better DuPont materials and have the Lube Groove grease reservoir for even longer life. Technically I guess I shouldn’t consider my bushings have 6 years testing but I do...
Neal (Speedworks), since you brought up not recieveing your Delrin bushings yet, here’s the information.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...peedwSmall.jpg
I would start to be concerned at this point. New Zealand, Canada, Malaysia and the 35+ USA folks from batch 2 have received theirs within a few weeks. I remember having concerns about your package because you had your address listed two ways within Paypal and I wouldn’t send your bushings until you confirmed the address. Did you call the phone numbers I gave you? The bushings have to have made it past your customs by now. Feel free to PM me if I can help any further.
09-03-06, 04:07 PM
#10
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Hy Steve, I hope you do not feel offended by all this. It is /has never been my intention to do so.
I have been out of the country last week so tomorrow I will be back on the local postal services asses to get some more info. As far as we know the package is in the country but noone knows where.
Thanks for posting the picture again, I don't doubt you didn't ship them, I'm used to the Belgian post to mess things up bigtime.
Like I metionned before, let this be 'just another' alternative for the existing market (especially for the expensive Japanese kits)
Greetz
Neal
I have been out of the country last week so tomorrow I will be back on the local postal services asses to get some more info. As far as we know the package is in the country but noone knows where.
Thanks for posting the picture again, I don't doubt you didn't ship them, I'm used to the Belgian post to mess things up bigtime.
Like I metionned before, let this be 'just another' alternative for the existing market (especially for the expensive Japanese kits)
Greetz
Neal
09-04-06, 03:08 AM
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I'm not offended by anything here Neal. It's an opportunity to show off the Delrin bushings. They are a little more exotic then what some have seen before. Others have read descriptions from the other bushing competition and have never seen any information from actual Delrin users. Bushings are not only expensive but they're a chore to swap out too. People should do their homework and make an educated choice. It is also important to consider the sources of information. That's why I use a lot of quotes from people who have nothing to gain from their statements.
You stated you hadn't received my bushings that were sent two months ago without any description of what's been done. Usually these conversations are handled through PMs unless one party would like to make a public complaint. I reposted some of the information so other folks wouldn't get the wrong idea. It was no trouble. I never took the image down in case you hadn't printed it. Let me know when you have received them. If there are any problems with your shipment I'll no longer offer free shipping to overseas buyers. Better tracking with daily updates seems to be required.
You stated you hadn't received my bushings that were sent two months ago without any description of what's been done. Usually these conversations are handled through PMs unless one party would like to make a public complaint. I reposted some of the information so other folks wouldn't get the wrong idea. It was no trouble. I never took the image down in case you hadn't printed it. Let me know when you have received them. If there are any problems with your shipment I'll no longer offer free shipping to overseas buyers. Better tracking with daily updates seems to be required.
09-04-06, 09:01 AM
#12
I have been in contact with powerflex recently and I live 10 minutes away from their USA distributor, so I may be organizing a group buy later. They expressed interest in working with us for GB pricing. However, I will be waiting until Wanklin's GB is over to start working on this one.
People will just have to consider the pro's and con's of each choice (stock, Delrin, poly). Just from looking at the websites it seems that superpro has put more R&D into their bushings than powerflex, which may explain the higher price. Whether they work better than the powerflex bushings is another matter.
People will just have to consider the pro's and con's of each choice (stock, Delrin, poly). Just from looking at the websites it seems that superpro has put more R&D into their bushings than powerflex, which may explain the higher price. Whether they work better than the powerflex bushings is another matter.
09-04-06, 09:14 PM
#13
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You may be in for one hell of a wait buddy. It must not be going too easy for them. The SuperPro front bushings were supposed to be in the final stages of road and track testing back in February over 6 months ago. 
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...3&postcount=15
For those of you who didn’t know, LaBardi Performance is one of Rob Labardee’s other logon screen names. Wanklin, I believe is his main one he uses most of the time. The above quote was taken from one of the threads Rob has chosen to sell his product by trying to use fear tactics against my Delrin bushings.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=512417
I just noticed something odd, wanklin's listed location has just changed from Virginia to the United Kingdom. I wonder? Did he really move to bloody old England?
wanklin Location: Oxford UK
LaBardi Performance Location: Northern Virginia/DC
afterburn27, you're from Virginia too, right?
Hmm.... Anybody else smell something MAY be fishy going on here?
Lately Rob has started those attack tactics again in his group buy waiting list thread. Understandably he has had my responses deleted. Here is what I’ve been forced to deal with so you’ll understand my need to dispute the misinformation spread about the Delrin bushings.
Rob, I have asked politely for you to not comment on the Delrin bushings to sell your product and now you’ve done it twice in a few days. It only forces me to respond to your exaggerated and false allegations. Perhaps you’re doing it because the 18 piece $500 Delrin bushings are so much cheaper then the Polyurethane bushing you’re selling. It is the opposite for most other cars with the Delrin bushing option. Delrin usually costs much more then Polyurethane bushings so I understand. No matter the reason, here are unbiased road test reports posted in the Delrin group buy thread. These facts were posted about the Delrin bushings in spite of the exaggerated hype you and a few guys have tried to generate. You can tell from the Delrin owners statements they had believed some of the hype but were pleasantly surprised to find the real truth. One guy was listening to his car so hard he believes the exhaust got louder too after the bushing install. Now that is funny. The differential bushings are the only Delrin bushings to add any minor noise, and that gets drowned out by normal road noise once up to any normal driving speed (3rd gear and up). No one has any complaints of harshness with stock or modified RX7’s. I don’t expect any either from a smoother operating pivot point on the suspension.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...47#post5723447
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...65#post5769265
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...87#post5928387
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...93#post5944293
Same person 100 miles later posted this on TC…
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthr...829#post345829
Please note some quotes were edited to remove non relevant discussions. Links to the original quotes are provided for your review. If you have any further questions feel free to PM me or I'm sure you could PM any of the above individuals for more no BS feedback. They don’t stand to profit by bad mouthing the Delrin kits, unlike Rob.
Over all I’ve been extremely happy with the handling and ride quality feedback from the Delrin precision bushings. The only drawback to using them seems to be a minor increase in gear noise from the differential bushings. That has been the typical sacrifice to solid mounting the diff for maximum performance. It’s a minor sacrifice to have the types of suspension performance that’s been described above. If you choose not to have any increased noise simply don’t install the Delrin differential bushings. They can be sold for $100. Use that to buy some MazdaSpeed or SuperPro differential bushings if you prefer.
Originally Posted by LaBardi Performance
The front bushings are in their final stages of R&D and the word on the street is that they'll be shipping very soon. By final stages of R&D I mean that they are finishing track/road testing the bushings to ensure that they have selected the optimal compound/durometer for the application.
For those of you who didn’t know, LaBardi Performance is one of Rob Labardee’s other logon screen names. Wanklin, I believe is his main one he uses most of the time. The above quote was taken from one of the threads Rob has chosen to sell his product by trying to use fear tactics against my Delrin bushings.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=512417
I just noticed something odd, wanklin's listed location has just changed from Virginia to the United Kingdom. I wonder? Did he really move to bloody old England?
wanklin Location: Oxford UK
LaBardi Performance Location: Northern Virginia/DC
afterburn27, you're from Virginia too, right?
Hmm.... Anybody else smell something MAY be fishy going on here?
Lately Rob has started those attack tactics again in his group buy waiting list thread. Understandably he has had my responses deleted. Here is what I’ve been forced to deal with so you’ll understand my need to dispute the misinformation spread about the Delrin bushings.
Originally Posted by wanklin
Delrin is an extremely hard and durable plastic, there's no arguing that. What I will argue, however…
Rob, I have asked politely for you to not comment on the Delrin bushings to sell your product and now you’ve done it twice in a few days. It only forces me to respond to your exaggerated and false allegations. Perhaps you’re doing it because the 18 piece $500 Delrin bushings are so much cheaper then the Polyurethane bushing you’re selling. It is the opposite for most other cars with the Delrin bushing option. Delrin usually costs much more then Polyurethane bushings so I understand. No matter the reason, here are unbiased road test reports posted in the Delrin group buy thread. These facts were posted about the Delrin bushings in spite of the exaggerated hype you and a few guys have tried to generate. You can tell from the Delrin owners statements they had believed some of the hype but were pleasantly surprised to find the real truth. One guy was listening to his car so hard he believes the exhaust got louder too after the bushing install. Now that is funny. The differential bushings are the only Delrin bushings to add any minor noise, and that gets drowned out by normal road noise once up to any normal driving speed (3rd gear and up). No one has any complaints of harshness with stock or modified RX7’s. I don’t expect any either from a smoother operating pivot point on the suspension.
Originally Posted by unnerv
As far as handling is concerned there is a noticable difference in the curves. The car feels SOLID. I just had a base alignment done for now so the car wasn't so twitchy. I plan to get it corner weighted in the next month or so. Turned out the caster on one of the front corners was off by 5 degrees which shows how shot my old bushings were. Everything is so tight now. No longer hit my head on the roof over the expansion joints, no clunking, incredible in the corners.
After driving for a couple of days I noticed the car is a bit noisier, esp at low speed you can hear the diff. So if you are sensitive to noise you may want to skip the diff busings and stick with rubber. Once up to speed it is drowned out by tire noise and such tho.
After driving for a couple of days I noticed the car is a bit noisier, esp at low speed you can hear the diff. So if you are sensitive to noise you may want to skip the diff busings and stick with rubber. Once up to speed it is drowned out by tire noise and such tho.
Originally Posted by unnerv
The ride is not bad. If you check back a couple of pages I left some comments. It is a little noisier overall, but nothing to complain about. Unfortunately I have never ridden in a stock FD so I can't compare. I bought mine with tien coilovers. Since I had 130K on the stock bushing/pillowballs the ride actually is less harsh after the bushings.
Originally Posted by byrden
I'm surprised these bushings aren't on more running cars, maybe people are too busy having fun.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
Originally Posted by Unknown_ssk
the turns feel really good but with only the fronts installed the car feels squirly in back compared to the front. i'm installing the rears in december, as i am in college and have no access to tools or anywhere to do the work. i can let everyone know if they want to wait that long...
Same person 100 miles later posted this on TC…
Originally Posted by BlackR1
I installed the front ones already and have driven on the front ones for approx. 100 miles. the car ride isn't to harsh at all. i have all original equipment suspension wise. the car did have 140k miles on it. the driving difference in the front is incredible. the front of the car handles corners no problems. now all i have to do is take care of the back ones...
Please note some quotes were edited to remove non relevant discussions. Links to the original quotes are provided for your review. If you have any further questions feel free to PM me or I'm sure you could PM any of the above individuals for more no BS feedback. They don’t stand to profit by bad mouthing the Delrin kits, unlike Rob.
Over all I’ve been extremely happy with the handling and ride quality feedback from the Delrin precision bushings. The only drawback to using them seems to be a minor increase in gear noise from the differential bushings. That has been the typical sacrifice to solid mounting the diff for maximum performance. It’s a minor sacrifice to have the types of suspension performance that’s been described above. If you choose not to have any increased noise simply don’t install the Delrin differential bushings. They can be sold for $100. Use that to buy some MazdaSpeed or SuperPro differential bushings if you prefer.
09-04-06, 10:28 PM
#14
Originally Posted by TireSmokin7
I just noticed something odd, wanklin's listed location has just changed from Virginia to the United Kingdom. I wonder? Did he really move to bloody old England?
wanklin Location: Oxford UK
LaBardi Performance Location: Northern Virginia/DC
afterburn27, you're from Virginia too, right?
Hmm.... Anybody else smell something MAY be fishy going on here?
wanklin Location: Oxford UK
LaBardi Performance Location: Northern Virginia/DC
afterburn27, you're from Virginia too, right?
Hmm.... Anybody else smell something MAY be fishy going on here?
As for the relationship between you and Rob, that is none of my business and I'm not getting into that. Both products appear to be of a high quality and that's all I will say.
09-05-06, 12:35 AM
#15
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by TireSmokin7
Hmm.... Anybody else smell something MAY be fishy going on here?
Understandably he has had my responses deleted.
Rob, I have asked politely for you to not comment on the Delrin bushings to sell your product and now you’ve done it twice in a few days.
It only forces me to respond to your exaggerated and false allegations.
Perhaps you’re doing it because the 18 piece $500 Delrin bushings are so much cheaper then the Polyurethane bushing you’re selling.
Last edited by jimlab; 09-05-06 at 12:40 AM.
09-05-06, 02:20 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by jimlab
I smell something, but it isn't fish...
Originally Posted by jimlab
Actually, that was me. Keep your sales pitches confined to your own thread.
Originally Posted by jimlab
So what? You've done the same thing with Nylon 6-6.
Originally Posted by TireSmokin7
Jims bushings are made of 6-6 Nylon. These are made of Delrin. They each have similar qualities but not the same. Delrin is hands down the top quality name brand material to use for bushings in the industry. Like any superior name brand product the cost rises. I am eating the higher price of materials to supply a quality product to those who want it. If you have stock bushings in your FD now, either would be a good choice to tighten up your high mileage suspension and be a fraction of the cost for Mazda Speed bushings that are only 40% stiffer then (new) stock standard RX7 bushings. If you have a set of Jims bushings in your car then keep them and save your money for some other mod. The slight advantage these have just isn't worth it in my opinion. If you’re the type that only the best will do, I hope you have deep pockets and an understanding wife…
Originally Posted by jimlab
Wait a minute... aren't you the same guy who didn't even know the mechanical properties of the material you'd chosen until others posted it in your thread?
Originally Posted by jimlab
Of course they are. Your only R&D expense was buying a set of my bushings to take dimensions from.
1986 - 1991 Mazda RX7
Includes:
- Front Control Arm Bushings
- Rear Control Arm Bushings
- Front Sway Bar Bushings
- Rear Sway Bar Bushings
- Ball Joint End Boots
- Tie Rod End Boots
$102.69
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=11.18101
Rob even admitted he or his buddy I should say is doing the testing prior to the front SuperPro bushings going into production, not SuperPro.
Originally Posted by wanklin
Pete,
The arms were sent from Australia to my partner on the West Coast. I offered to take care of the testing on the East Coast, but it looks like my partner has it covered with one of his guys out there. I'll keep you posted.
I'm eager to get the full kit on the market but it's still a waiting game, and we need to make sure everything is right before we move forward.
The arms were sent from Australia to my partner on the West Coast. I offered to take care of the testing on the East Coast, but it looks like my partner has it covered with one of his guys out there. I'll keep you posted.
I'm eager to get the full kit on the market but it's still a waiting game, and we need to make sure everything is right before we move forward.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=23
Originally Posted by jimlab
Prothane, Energy Suspension, and other bushing manufacturers only tackle cars for which there is a large potential market. When tooling to mold polyurethane bushings in large quantities can cost $50k or more, it doesn't make any sense to target a car for which there is a very limited number of potential buyers because you'd never get a return on your investment. That's why bushing kits for Honda Civics, Ford Mustangs, and Chevy Camaros are so cheap... because there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of potential buyers and they can afford to make the tooling to make bushings in bulk. With the 3rd gen. RX-7 however, that's not an option, which is why none of the major manufacturers produce an FD bushing kit.
Hope that helps!
Hope that helps!
Sure does, helps a bunch. Thanks bud!
09-05-06, 04:06 PM
#17
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by TireSmokin7
Let me guess, it's the paint from your new home.
Congratulations for finally moving out of the condo by the way. You must be [very] proud.
You never did get over me ripping you a new one in the third post of my group buy did ya? Sorry to have to be so brutal to the legendary jimbo ego, but I meant every word.
True, I never cared to second guess the experienced professionals in the suspension industry I'm working with.
I gave them the Nylon bushings to do the material estimate from
the material choice was left up to the experienced professionals too.
Don't you just hate that, experienced professionals choosing Delrin over Nylon and you have no one to debate about it.
Nylon bushings will never be as popular as the Delrin bushings.
Hell, does anyone even make Nylon suspension bushings anymore?
Delrin isn’t the cheaper choice of materials.
You cut and paste pretty well Steve, but you're easily one of the dumbest members of this forum. I'd grant you the title of dumbest, but ZeroBanger might come back some day...
09-05-06, 10:34 PM
#18
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Results 1 - 10 of about 142,000 for nylon suspension bushings. (0.17 seconds)
1st result of search:
http://www.fordpower.net/main/Press-...velopment.html
1st result of search:
http://www.fordpower.net/main/Press-...velopment.html
Last edited by chingon; 09-05-06 at 10:38 PM.
09-06-06, 03:27 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by jimlab
Nope, smells more like a weasel's ***.
Originally Posted by jimlab
Says the guy living in a shabby apartment
Originally Posted by jimlab
Ripping me a new one? Right.
Originally Posted by jimlab
Nor do you have the intelligence or experience to do so...
My experience is delivering over 60 less expensive kits of Delrin suspension bushings in two separate group buys quicker then the 21 kits of Nylon bushings you sold and took NINE months to deliver.
Originally Posted by jimlab
Again, because you're not qualified to do much more than tape a box shut...
Originally Posted by jimlab
Yes. In fact, the pillow bushings on your car have Nylon inserts. What was Mazda thinking?!?
Originally Posted by jimlab
So price determines the quality of the material? Are we back to "name brand = better" yet?
Originally Posted by jimlab
You cut and paste pretty well Steve, but you're easily one of the dumbest members of this forum. I'd grant you the title of dumbest, but ZeroBanger might come back some day...
Would this help me get to the top?
Nice choice of rims and tires for your car Jim.
I hope your road hazard covers tire rot...
Last edited by TireSmokin7; 09-06-06 at 03:36 AM.
09-06-06, 10:31 AM
#20
Schadenfreude...Ha Ha
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Originally Posted by TireSmokin7
I've said it once and I'll say it again. Admittedly true, but you’re a childish, self centered, egotistical, sniveler. I can get the information I need by placing a few phone calls or sending a few emails, Jim LaBreck, you’re screwed for life…
09-06-06, 11:38 AM
#21
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by TireSmokin7
My shabby apartment has got a three car garage and six car driveway in sunny Southern California.
I can get the information I need by placing a few phone calls or sending a few emails, Jim LaBreck, you’re screwed for life.
My experience is delivering over 60 less expensive kits of Delrin suspension bushings in two separate group buys quicker then the 21 kits of Nylon bushings you sold and took NINE months to deliver.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=83
Apparently you weren't around for the group buy in 2001 where I delivered 155 sets of bushings in 3 months. That's no typo... 155 sets. The biggest group buy ever on this forum. Top that.
Over 80 so far if you count the differential bushing boxes.
No wonder they're the first bushing to ware out.
I do like name brands
Nice choice of rims and tires for your car Jim. I hope your road hazard covers tire rot.
BTW, how's that Sonoma 4-by-wannabe thing coming along?
09-06-06, 12:39 PM
#22
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Hey guys, as I opened this thread I would most sincerely like to ask you to this in one of your own threads. This discussion has been done over and over and OVER before. No need to do it again..
MAny thanks,
Neal
PS: YEs,Rob seems to have moved to the UK for the time being (he PM'ed me). I'm sure it will not affect his business.
MAny thanks,
Neal
PS: YEs,Rob seems to have moved to the UK for the time being (he PM'ed me). I'm sure it will not affect his business.
02-21-07, 06:56 PM
#25
I just found this thread, all I can do is laugh..... even months later
If you want to see Steve and I argue you can read this thread: http://www.torquecentral.com/showthr...8&page=1&pp=25
but I have no intention of doing that here. I'm going to say my piece and leave it at that. I will say that it was distasteful to throw accusations around without taking the time to verify some of these matters with a simple PM, but what's done is done. No big deal. I've heard a lot of good things about Steve, we just happen to have widely varying opinions on the subject of bushings. I think that's one thing that we will both agree on.
Regarding the LaBardi screen name:
I think everyone is well aware of this, but, the LaBardi name was a shared screen name used by myself and Nick Yannitello so that we could insure that we both were able to view 100% of the PMs and help out anyone who needed it. It was a tactic that we used to maximize GB efficiency during out carpet GB and we have since ceased using it. The signature clearly indicated who was using the screen name "wanklin and turb0x2", and it is simply a non-issue.
R&D
SuperPro does infact R&D their bushings extensively as Neal stated. Each bushing is formulated to a spart-specific durometer and tested on both the street and track for performance attributes as well as NVH. I can tell you that this is the case because the fronts were not released until they underwent two phases of prototype track testing out in California (The australia test vehicle had recently been wrecked) which were remotely conducted under the supervision of SuperPro. The fact that SuperPro was already familiar with the suspension and weight distribution of the RX-7 made this remote effort a possibility.
Pricing
Reality
The 24 piece bushing set is currently GB priced at about $552 including shipping and Paypal fees. The first phase of orders should ship next week if all goes well.
Past Pricing
For those wondering why the bushings were initially significantly more expensive, there are several factors that came into play. I'll start from the beginning. The first SuperPro bushings that I ever purchased were significantly more expensive in the past than they are now. I was paying almost double what I pay now for the same product. The product was a brand new offering to the market that I decided I wanted to bring to the small niche which is the RX-7 community. I invested thousands of dollars of my own money on a solution that I believed in because I knew that they were the right answer to our problems. I began by selling the bushings at a discounted price to develope feedback, and I was willing to gamble because I believed in my heart of hearts that what I was bringing to the table was the best on the market for a street/track FD, period. I didn't roll into this current situation with cash on hand from waiting buyers who already associated the bushings with a previously available design; these were brand new and completely original.
Effeciencies of Scale
So why aren't these bushings $199 like some of the large volume kits out there? Well it's quite simple really. While polyurethane does not require expensive machining, each bushings requires its own custom machined mold. These molds are expensive and time consuming to make, and the cost of this tooling is then rolled into the cost of the product. It's a matter of scale efficiencies, nothing more.
Material
SuperPro bushings don't squeek and they aren't made of cheap material. They are the bushings I know of that are backed by a manufacturer warranty, and they will far and away outlast the stock rubber. You just apply the proprietary grease upon installation and you're good to go.
Durometer
The bushings in question are rated at 80 & 90 Shore A depending on the position of the arm per application. Softness is not an issue as these bushings, though neither is NVH (noise vibration and harshness) as these retain near-stock NVH levels. Just to provide a point of reference; Delrin is roughly 83 Shore D which is significantly stiffer than a hard hat (75D).
The Mazdaspeed bushings are 70 A shore. Assuming a 10-20S difference, the SuperPros are actually quite a bit stiffer then the MS bushings.
Durometer Scale Tutorial
There are several scales of durometer, used for materials with different properties. The two most common scales, using slightly different measurement systems, are the A and D scales. The A scale is for softer plastics, while the D scale is for harder ones. However, the ASTM D2240-00 testing standard calls for a total of 12 scales, depending on the intended use; types A, B, C, D, DO, E, M, O, OO, OOO, OOO-S, and R. Each scale results in a value between 0 and 100, with higher values indicating a harder material.[2]
Method of measurement
Durometer, like many other hardness tests, measures the depth of an indentation in the material created by a given force on a standardized presser foot. This depth is dependent on the hardness of the material, its viscoelastic properties, the shape of the presser foot, and the duration of the test. Short durometer allows for a measurement of the initial indentation, or the indentation after a given period of time. The basic test requires applying the force in a consistent manner, without shock, for 15 seconds, and measuring the depth of the indentation. If instantaneous depth is desired, force is applied for only 1 second. The material under test should be approximately 6.4 mm (.25 inch) thick.[3]
Testing equipment - Shore Durometer Type A and D[3] Durometer Indenting foot Applied force (g) Type A Hardened steel rod 1.1 mm - 1.4 mm dia, with a truncated 35º cone, 0.79 mm dia. 822 grams Type D Hardened steel rod 1.1 mm - 1.4 mm dia, with a 30º conical point, 0.1 mm radius tip 4550 grams The final value of the hardness depends on the depth of the indenter's penetration. If the indenter penetrates 2.5mm or more into the material, the durometer is 0 for that scale. If it does not penetrate at all, then the durometer is 100 for that scale. It is for this reason that multiple scales exist. Durometer is a dimensionless quantity, and there is no simple relationship between a material's durometer in one scale, and its durometer in any other scale, or by any other hardness test.[1]
Durometer of various common materials
An automotive tire tread, one of the many rubber or polymer objects categorized by its durometer hardness. Tires typically range from 50A to 70A, depending on their application.
Examples:
Material Durometer Scale
Hard Hat 75 D
Non-spark hammer 60 D
Hard skateboard wheel 100 A
Solid truck tires 50 D
Soft skateboard wheel 70 A
Automotive tire tread 70 A
Door seal 55 A
Rubber band 25 A
Sorbothane 40 OO
Sorbothane 0 A
Chewing Gum 20 OO
Well that about sums it up. Have a good day.
Robert
If you want to see Steve and I argue you can read this thread: http://www.torquecentral.com/showthr...8&page=1&pp=25
but I have no intention of doing that here. I'm going to say my piece and leave it at that. I will say that it was distasteful to throw accusations around without taking the time to verify some of these matters with a simple PM, but what's done is done. No big deal. I've heard a lot of good things about Steve, we just happen to have widely varying opinions on the subject of bushings. I think that's one thing that we will both agree on.
Regarding the LaBardi screen name:
I think everyone is well aware of this, but, the LaBardi name was a shared screen name used by myself and Nick Yannitello so that we could insure that we both were able to view 100% of the PMs and help out anyone who needed it. It was a tactic that we used to maximize GB efficiency during out carpet GB and we have since ceased using it. The signature clearly indicated who was using the screen name "wanklin and turb0x2", and it is simply a non-issue.
R&D
SuperPro does infact R&D their bushings extensively as Neal stated. Each bushing is formulated to a spart-specific durometer and tested on both the street and track for performance attributes as well as NVH. I can tell you that this is the case because the fronts were not released until they underwent two phases of prototype track testing out in California (The australia test vehicle had recently been wrecked) which were remotely conducted under the supervision of SuperPro. The fact that SuperPro was already familiar with the suspension and weight distribution of the RX-7 made this remote effort a possibility.
Pricing
Originally Posted by STEVE
This will hurt wanklin's group buy the hardest. These front Polyurethane control arm bushings look to be ready to ship. Last I heard, wanklin's are still waiting for R&D testing with no expected completion date known yet. I wonder how his prices compare, anybody know how much the SuperPro fronts cost? Last I saw the rear bushings alone were $500+.
It still looks like my $500 18 piece Delrin Lube Groove bushing kits are still the best bang for the buck high performance bushing kit for the RX7’s.
It still looks like my $500 18 piece Delrin Lube Groove bushing kits are still the best bang for the buck high performance bushing kit for the RX7’s.
The 24 piece bushing set is currently GB priced at about $552 including shipping and Paypal fees. The first phase of orders should ship next week if all goes well.
Past Pricing
For those wondering why the bushings were initially significantly more expensive, there are several factors that came into play. I'll start from the beginning. The first SuperPro bushings that I ever purchased were significantly more expensive in the past than they are now. I was paying almost double what I pay now for the same product. The product was a brand new offering to the market that I decided I wanted to bring to the small niche which is the RX-7 community. I invested thousands of dollars of my own money on a solution that I believed in because I knew that they were the right answer to our problems. I began by selling the bushings at a discounted price to develope feedback, and I was willing to gamble because I believed in my heart of hearts that what I was bringing to the table was the best on the market for a street/track FD, period. I didn't roll into this current situation with cash on hand from waiting buyers who already associated the bushings with a previously available design; these were brand new and completely original.
Effeciencies of Scale
So why aren't these bushings $199 like some of the large volume kits out there? Well it's quite simple really. While polyurethane does not require expensive machining, each bushings requires its own custom machined mold. These molds are expensive and time consuming to make, and the cost of this tooling is then rolled into the cost of the product. It's a matter of scale efficiencies, nothing more.
Material
SuperPro bushings don't squeek and they aren't made of cheap material. They are the bushings I know of that are backed by a manufacturer warranty, and they will far and away outlast the stock rubber. You just apply the proprietary grease upon installation and you're good to go.
Durometer
The bushings in question are rated at 80 & 90 Shore A depending on the position of the arm per application. Softness is not an issue as these bushings, though neither is NVH (noise vibration and harshness) as these retain near-stock NVH levels. Just to provide a point of reference; Delrin is roughly 83 Shore D which is significantly stiffer than a hard hat (75D).
The Mazdaspeed bushings are 70 A shore. Assuming a 10-20S difference, the SuperPros are actually quite a bit stiffer then the MS bushings.
Durometer Scale Tutorial
There are several scales of durometer, used for materials with different properties. The two most common scales, using slightly different measurement systems, are the A and D scales. The A scale is for softer plastics, while the D scale is for harder ones. However, the ASTM D2240-00 testing standard calls for a total of 12 scales, depending on the intended use; types A, B, C, D, DO, E, M, O, OO, OOO, OOO-S, and R. Each scale results in a value between 0 and 100, with higher values indicating a harder material.[2]
Method of measurement
Durometer, like many other hardness tests, measures the depth of an indentation in the material created by a given force on a standardized presser foot. This depth is dependent on the hardness of the material, its viscoelastic properties, the shape of the presser foot, and the duration of the test. Short durometer allows for a measurement of the initial indentation, or the indentation after a given period of time. The basic test requires applying the force in a consistent manner, without shock, for 15 seconds, and measuring the depth of the indentation. If instantaneous depth is desired, force is applied for only 1 second. The material under test should be approximately 6.4 mm (.25 inch) thick.[3]
Testing equipment - Shore Durometer Type A and D[3] Durometer Indenting foot Applied force (g) Type A Hardened steel rod 1.1 mm - 1.4 mm dia, with a truncated 35º cone, 0.79 mm dia. 822 grams Type D Hardened steel rod 1.1 mm - 1.4 mm dia, with a 30º conical point, 0.1 mm radius tip 4550 grams The final value of the hardness depends on the depth of the indenter's penetration. If the indenter penetrates 2.5mm or more into the material, the durometer is 0 for that scale. If it does not penetrate at all, then the durometer is 100 for that scale. It is for this reason that multiple scales exist. Durometer is a dimensionless quantity, and there is no simple relationship between a material's durometer in one scale, and its durometer in any other scale, or by any other hardness test.[1]
Durometer of various common materials
An automotive tire tread, one of the many rubber or polymer objects categorized by its durometer hardness. Tires typically range from 50A to 70A, depending on their application.
Examples:
Material Durometer Scale
Hard Hat 75 D
Non-spark hammer 60 D
Hard skateboard wheel 100 A
Solid truck tires 50 D
Soft skateboard wheel 70 A
Automotive tire tread 70 A
Door seal 55 A
Rubber band 25 A
Sorbothane 40 OO
Sorbothane 0 A
Chewing Gum 20 OO
Robert