FD Suspension Options (woes)
01-02-14, 04:22 PM
#1
FD Suspension Options (woes)
Prior to picking up my second FD in October I had been set on picking up some Eibach pro-kit springs to last me until I could get some Koni yellows....
Find out they have been discontinued for several years..
Next option, RS-R springs----also discontinued.
H&R springs appear to be the last result for something quality, however they lower 1.5" and I have a cushy suspended '95 touring that is sure to have some rubbing issues (please, correct me if I am wrong in this regard---car has 70k miles, 18 year old OE shocks).
With that, I thought I'd save up for ground control/koni coilover combo as eibach+koni's was my original goal. Now I am reading about the fixed-mount / articulation problems they have (though not sure if this is something less prevalent in FDs).
The pettit trakpros seem to have addressed this bending issue, and of course, are discontinued last year.
So, now, I am basically looking at complete coilover sets which is something I did not want to jump into, but due to the lack of good springs it seems that this is the viable option.
tein flex
stance gr+
BC racing (unsure of model, but pettit says specs were very similar to theirs)
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others..?
As far as performance, I am sure any of those would serve my purposes fine --- mountain running, OCCASIONAL tracking (I am new), lots of street.
What I am more concerned about now, after reading about the ground control issues, is build quality/reliability. I dont want COs with threads that will just get messed up after a couple of years like this:
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w.../#post11294337
so, I guess the question is:
do any of the (current) coilovers in this <1500 price bracket really outshine the others as far as build quality?
or, at least, match pettit trakpros--which seemed to be outshining many other options.
all input appreciated!
Find out they have been discontinued for several years..
Next option, RS-R springs----also discontinued.
H&R springs appear to be the last result for something quality, however they lower 1.5" and I have a cushy suspended '95 touring that is sure to have some rubbing issues (please, correct me if I am wrong in this regard---car has 70k miles, 18 year old OE shocks).
With that, I thought I'd save up for ground control/koni coilover combo as eibach+koni's was my original goal. Now I am reading about the fixed-mount / articulation problems they have (though not sure if this is something less prevalent in FDs).
The pettit trakpros seem to have addressed this bending issue, and of course, are discontinued last year.
So, now, I am basically looking at complete coilover sets which is something I did not want to jump into, but due to the lack of good springs it seems that this is the viable option.
tein flex
stance gr+
BC racing (unsure of model, but pettit says specs were very similar to theirs)
Powered by Max
others..?
As far as performance, I am sure any of those would serve my purposes fine --- mountain running, OCCASIONAL tracking (I am new), lots of street.
What I am more concerned about now, after reading about the ground control issues, is build quality/reliability. I dont want COs with threads that will just get messed up after a couple of years like this:
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w.../#post11294337
so, I guess the question is:
do any of the (current) coilovers in this <1500 price bracket really outshine the others as far as build quality?
or, at least, match pettit trakpros--which seemed to be outshining many other options.
all input appreciated!
01-02-14, 05:14 PM
#2
Can you explain a bit more about the articulation issues with the GCs? I understand the tophats don't articulate, but there are a million of these setups in autocross and track cars of all makes. It's pretty much the go to for folks who want to compete w/o shelling out for $4k setups. Which is a roundabout way of saying that they work and you might be overthinking a minor issue. Is this something that has come up with the FD?
I think going to some of the cheaper brands you mention should make you concerned more with ride quality - especially for street use - than build quality. You'll find some of these have poorly thought out valving. Not an issue with Konis. You probably wont like driving on Teins on the street. Bouncy/harsh when I've had them on other cars.
I think going to some of the cheaper brands you mention should make you concerned more with ride quality - especially for street use - than build quality. You'll find some of these have poorly thought out valving. Not an issue with Konis. You probably wont like driving on Teins on the street. Bouncy/harsh when I've had them on other cars.
01-02-14, 05:47 PM
#3
Admittedly, I came to that (very fickle) conclusion based on someone else's digging through forum threads so I cannot explain much more.
here:
it could very well be that I am distressing over a minor issue---but that dude was convinced GCs were a worse pick, sold them and went with the Pettits....which seemed to be a smart move from what I gathered in that thread.
here:
Ugggh. I did all my research last year, got sick of all the choices, finally settled on GC/Koni, and just last week pulled the trigger on the GC coilover kit...all the while being negligent in reading up on the latest and greatest from the "bible" of RX info. GC better not charge me a re-stocking fee!! And what's up exactly with this "articulation" wearing on the upper mounts with that set-up?
Any verdict on the Stage II's yet? Looks like I'm leaning that way for mostly street and rarely track....but hoping for more track.
Any verdict on the Stage II's yet? Looks like I'm leaning that way for mostly street and rarely track....but hoping for more track.
as the suspension moves thru its travel the bottom of the shock moves, and the top is fixed, so the top of the strut has to be able to pivot freely.
you'd think the FD wouldn't move that much, but its enough to have the GC plates either loosen or bend. i don't know how bad the FD is, but in extreme cases it causes a side load, and wear on the shock, and the spring can bind against the coil over collar.
it doesn't locate the suspension, but it does carry the weight of the car
again i dont know about the FD specifically, but it is something to consider, and the GC plates do have problems
you'd think the FD wouldn't move that much, but its enough to have the GC plates either loosen or bend. i don't know how bad the FD is, but in extreme cases it causes a side load, and wear on the shock, and the spring can bind against the coil over collar.
it doesn't locate the suspension, but it does carry the weight of the car
again i dont know about the FD specifically, but it is something to consider, and the GC plates do have problems
Like this:
These pics are from the right rear of my car.
Ground Control Sleeves and Koni Yellows.
There has been contact on other corners as well, but this is the worst.
I am going to have the Koni's rebuilt for 900/750 lb springs and use Koni Coilover sleeves, as they use a proper upper spring perch to prevent bending the spring.
These pics are from the right rear of my car.
Ground Control Sleeves and Koni Yellows.
There has been contact on other corners as well, but this is the worst.
I am going to have the Koni's rebuilt for 900/750 lb springs and use Koni Coilover sleeves, as they use a proper upper spring perch to prevent bending the spring.
it could very well be that I am distressing over a minor issue---but that dude was convinced GCs were a worse pick, sold them and went with the Pettits....which seemed to be a smart move from what I gathered in that thread.
01-02-14, 06:39 PM
#7
I was aiming for 8/6, howard's reasoning makes a lot of sense to me.
excerpt:
excerpt:
IMO, the ideal street and modest track setup is 8/5
front 448 pounds 8 Kg
rear 280 pounds 5 Kg
total 728 up 159% from OE
rear is 38.4% of total.
the slightly lower rear spring rate allows higher hp (than stock) FDs to hook up the rear coming out of a corner. perfect.
front 448 pounds 8 Kg
rear 280 pounds 5 Kg
total 728 up 159% from OE
rear is 38.4% of total.
the slightly lower rear spring rate allows higher hp (than stock) FDs to hook up the rear coming out of a corner. perfect.
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01-02-14, 07:01 PM
#8
Admittedly, I came to that (very fickle) conclusion based on someone else's digging through forum threads so I cannot explain much more. here: it could very well be that I am distressing over a minor issue---but that dude was convinced GCs were a worse pick, sold them and went with the Pettits....which seemed to be a smart move from what I gathered in that thread.
He mentions the Koni sleeve as an alternative. If you're interested in a GC-like setup, you could consider that. Call Koni and see if there's an FD application?
IMO, I wouldn't go with a taiwanese suspension if you're looking for a good ride.
01-02-14, 08:52 PM
#9
Lots of great options for $1500, all of our coilovers come with a one year warranty. For your price budget my preference would be Aragosta or Ohlins PCV. Tein flex is a cheaper alternative and we have a set available for $1050 (https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...overs-1054306/)
I have had at least 75 different sets of coilovers come through my hands, it is very easy to see a large dispersion in build quality. Stay away from any coilovers built in Taiwan like BC Racing, we have had numerous clients with issues.
Happy to further discuss via PM.
I have had at least 75 different sets of coilovers come through my hands, it is very easy to see a large dispersion in build quality. Stay away from any coilovers built in Taiwan like BC Racing, we have had numerous clients with issues.
Happy to further discuss via PM.
01-02-14, 10:48 PM
#11
Personally, I'd give forum vendor Rishie at AutoRND.com a call. Great service and he knows these cars and has plenty of options for every budget. He carries Stance. Pure is a good source for used goodies.
That said, I ran the Ground Controls for ages and so have many others. It's a great setup and I never had any problems with it. The fixed mount articulation is not an issue under normal usage on the street and for HPDE.
That said, I ran the Ground Controls for ages and so have many others. It's a great setup and I never had any problems with it. The fixed mount articulation is not an issue under normal usage on the street and for HPDE.
01-02-14, 11:12 PM
#12
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I've done a lot of research (without application of course) for the best budget minded street friendly coilovers and I went with the fortuneautos with 10k/7k swifts.
There is a vendor on 7tuned that is selling it for dirt cheap, almost $250 less than what I paid.
01-02-14, 11:27 PM
#13
I'd still go with konis and ground-controls...
It's not that bad of the problem... much less of a problem then having sub-par dampers, which most JDM coilovers have...
Good reference:
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Buying Shocks
It's not that bad of the problem... much less of a problem then having sub-par dampers, which most JDM coilovers have...
Good reference:
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Buying Shocks
01-03-14, 11:05 AM
#16
Rotary Enthusiast
What about Racing Beat springs? I just got new Koni Sports in the fall and I'd consider them if my Eibachs needed replacement.
01-03-14, 03:02 PM
#20
Rotary Enthusiast
01-04-14, 10:06 AM
#21
Senior Member
Ohlins is Swedish, but the DFV and PCV were developed in Japan and made in Japan. I *think* that the PCV that preceded the DFV were only allowed by Ohlins to be sold in Japan. The newer DFV benefited from input from Sweden and have improved rebound damping and are available outside Japan.
If you go to Ohlins' website, the DFV are kept separate from their really high-end race stuff.
The Ohlins DFVs I got for the FD are fricking amazing. Even at 11k/11k, they're fantastic on the street, WAY smooover than the 9k/7k Tein SS I had before, which were quite harsh (to the extent that I couldn't live with them on the street anymore). But at the same time, the DFVs also have WAY better low speed control, and adjustments make a difference, unlike my Teins which always felt overdamped for bumps/potholes and underdamped for handling.
Anyway, I do believe that some very good stuff can be had out of Japan, but not at less than ~$2500+. Ohlins won't put their name on *anything* that isn't VERY good, whereas the Japanese brands will put out budget coilovers for $1000 with damping that is inferior to OEM. I have heard only good things about Tein's SRC coilovers, but they go for $2720 without springs, $2860 with. Ohlins are $2999.
If you go to Ohlins' website, the DFV are kept separate from their really high-end race stuff.
The Ohlins DFVs I got for the FD are fricking amazing. Even at 11k/11k, they're fantastic on the street, WAY smooover than the 9k/7k Tein SS I had before, which were quite harsh (to the extent that I couldn't live with them on the street anymore). But at the same time, the DFVs also have WAY better low speed control, and adjustments make a difference, unlike my Teins which always felt overdamped for bumps/potholes and underdamped for handling.
Anyway, I do believe that some very good stuff can be had out of Japan, but not at less than ~$2500+. Ohlins won't put their name on *anything* that isn't VERY good, whereas the Japanese brands will put out budget coilovers for $1000 with damping that is inferior to OEM. I have heard only good things about Tein's SRC coilovers, but they go for $2720 without springs, $2860 with. Ohlins are $2999.
01-04-14, 10:14 AM
#22
Senior Member
Another note: Don't get too too hung up on spring rates, damping is way way WAY more important than spring rate. Very good dampers with stiff springs will be infinitely better on the street than sub-par dampers with soft springs.
Personally, there's nothing out there new for $1500 I would even consider for coilovers, I'd MUCH sooner go used, especially if a 1-year warranty is available!
Personally, there's nothing out there new for $1500 I would even consider for coilovers, I'd MUCH sooner go used, especially if a 1-year warranty is available!
01-04-14, 10:15 AM
#23
Senior Member
Another note: Don't get too too hung up on spring rates, damping is way way WAY more important than spring rate. Very good dampers with stiff springs will be infinitely better on the street than sub-par dampers with soft springs.
Personally, there's nothing out there new for $1500 I would even consider for coilovers, I'd sooner go with used higher-end coils, especially if a 1-year warranty is available.
Personally, there's nothing out there new for $1500 I would even consider for coilovers, I'd sooner go with used higher-end coils, especially if a 1-year warranty is available.
01-04-14, 11:05 AM
#24
I also said most 
If you look at the link I posted ohlins are on his list of good dampers...
You should also look into fat cat motorsports. He can make you a set of Bilstein based custom valved coilovers that'll be awesome.
My Bilsteins are there right now getting revalved.
If you look at the link I posted ohlins are on his list of good dampers...
You should also look into fat cat motorsports. He can make you a set of Bilstein based custom valved coilovers that'll be awesome.
My Bilsteins are there right now getting revalved.
01-04-14, 07:41 PM
#25
I ran the H&R springs with my Konis for a while as well. Good springs. The Tein H-Tech are a bit stiffer than the H&R.