For those running the RB two piece stock replacement front rotors with the RB rear BBK, the HAWK HP+ are still best for agressive street braking.

I have tried: EBC REDs, RB ET500s, and Axxis ULT.

 

I work near Palo Alto. You can always go to Laguna Seca...HAHA!

 

HP+ is classified by Hawk as a street pad, not a track pad. RB worked with Hawk for years hoping to improve their compound in order that the squeaking noise and heavy black dust can be reduced to more acceptable level without success.

We believe we sell more HP+ pads to EVO 8 and Sti (both with Brembo calipers) enthusiasts than any other car makes. Some can put up with one (usually dust) but hardly both (dust and noise), so we developed the brake shim to solve the squeaky issue. I personally tested HP+ with proto type shims on my 350Z for about two and half years before the brake shims were successfully developed which Hawk was fully infomrd - An example of our providing solution to the performance industry.

Even just for aggressive street it’s not easy to come up with a compound meeting:

• The performance – Consistent friction torque under wider temperature range
• Low or no noise and dust
• Gentle to rotors
• Lasts longer
• Cost effective

But if “all” the above factors are duly considered we believe ET500 offers the best value with a good balance between performance and cost, which is substantiated by EVO 8 users - Pads were distributed through WORKS Engineering.

It’s not our intension to compete with other brands or compound, we simply offer it as an alternative choice.

Thank you. Warren

 

I'm planning on getting RB two piece stock replacement front rotors(P/N.2099-311) with the RB rear BBK(P/N.2107-381-0) the RB ET500 rear and front pads and SS brake lines. 95FD, PFS tuned to around 300 hp stock wheels, stock suspension and broke 11000 miles last week. Aggressive street driving.(I go out of my way to find highways with no merge lanes.)
Reason for upgrade- Car vibrates/raddles when braking over 80mph.
Would that be what you call knock back?
1. Around how much % of an improvement is this over stock setup?
2. Why do some members install 929 master cylinder?

Newbie!

 

That's called warped rotors. Knock back is basically when the pads come away from the rotors pushing the pistons in. This is mostly caused from turning under heavy g's which causes everything to flex causing the rotors to push the pads back into the calipers. Because of this you have to push the pedal further or tap it before you brake to get the pads seated back against the rotors.

1. I wouldn't get a rear BBK without getting a front BBK as it will mess the brake balance up.
2. It's just basically a larger piece that pushes more fluid so that when you go to a larger brake kit that requires more fluid flow the pedal doesn't need to be pushed further in. But this will increase pedal pressure.

Stock brakes with stock or upgraded rotors are more than capable for any kind of street driving. If you are having probables try a better pad.

 

If the shims warren mentions will stop the noise of the HP+, I might look into running them again. They had very good initial bite and I enjoyed their performance.

I ran HP+ with my stock brakes and absolutely couldnt deal with the noise on the street, it was horrible. I've had zero noise problems with EBC red, yellow, green and HPS in the past.

 

I have run this for a year now, and TWOKRX7 has the 99 Mazda larger rear brakes with stock front brakes with non stock rotors. Thus both setups are similar.

We have not encountered messed up brake bias.
************************************************** ******************************************
Rich,

My HP+ only lightly squeal when the weather is cold under very light braking.
Now that it is summer in Houston, they are quiet.
I am not so fussy as many younger drivers are since I grew up on the primative sports cars of the 60s.

Some of us can withstand more pain!

 

Stock brakes with stock or upgraded rotors are more than capable for any kind of street driving. If you are having probables try a better pad.[/QUOTE]

1. Which is the best upgrade rotors to keep stock wheels, calipers and ebrake?
Thanks

 

Either the two piece or single piece RB OEM replacements are better due to directional cooling fins. Go to there site and read.

 

I'm usually a little more verbose, so here's the short version of my Laguna test last Saturday:

1) No issues with rotors
2) DTC-70 fronts down 16%, HT-10 rears down 4% after event
3) Caliper temperatures a little higher than I'd like, but it could be heat soak (will test again)
4) No noticeable fade
5) Very, very bad knockback, to the point that I'm changing all my wheel bearings just to be sure

I don't like the way the HT-10 pads wear on the rear, so I'm going to talk to Racing Brake about getting some DTC-60 pads made up. The wear pattern of the DTC-70 is just amazing--light surface cracking (totally normal) and completely flat. In five track events, I've worn less than 0.001" from the surface. Outstanding. If I tap up before the corner, the braking performance is phenomenal. (If I brake at anything less than about 50% pressure, there is a lot of vibration, but again that's not out of the ordinary for a race setup.)

-ch

 

My only complaint: Nothing for FC3s

 

It may not mess it up enough to be noticable but from a physics stand point it only makes sense that it will mess the brake bias up. Especially considering that the stock system has no adjustment or way of knowing what you have done to the brake system.

RB are probably the best rotors from what I've seen, although I haven't tried them due to the cost. But as for holding up to track conditions cheapo NAPA's have been great for me and I can buy 3-4 sets for what a set of RB's cost.

 

Thanks again CEWRX7R1

RB doesn't offer 2 piece rear rotor anymore. Would the 2 piece front and 1 piece rear rotor work? or just stick with 1 piece front and rear?

Early thanks.

 

Tell racing brake there's more people who want the DTC series pads for the rear. Damian and I would both run them if they were available. I do like the HT-10's in terms of feel, but agree with respect to cracking longevity and friction coefficient. I have a Hawk rep on the Grand-am team I'm crewing for this year, so I can bug him about it too, but I don't know what pull he has.

 

The production of rear two piece rotors was discontinued due to low demand (replacement rings will still be served).

Here is the post on RB front two piece rotors:
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=459

Note RB two-piece rotors are “not” the exact duplication to stock, we improved the design as we see appropriate – the rotor is 24mm in thickness (same as Subaru’s most popular turbo charged race car Impreza/WRX) vs. OE’s 22mm, this beefier design makes (our) build and (your) investment more sensible, but it would require you to re-align the stock caliper in a more precise way to avoid slight interference as detailed in the post.

We believe RB two piece front and an upgraded one piece rear with proper selection of pads offers a good value for customers who wishe to enter their driving experience to track level.

 

I just wrote a message to Alan and asked him if he can offer his review on DTC-60 (He has DTC-70 front). Alan is one of the very few equipped with such a set up, but he said he has not tested them out yet but will do so when available.

As you might recall, we requested Hawk to make DTC-60 compound specifically for RX7 rear (Even today Hawk still doesn’t list it as available in their website). I was hoping that DTC-60 shall generate more interest it deserves although both Hawk and RB know the application is very limited, however we committed to serving RX7 enthusiasts and they are stocked.

 

This makes sense only if the stock system's bias is not front-heavy. I believe Mazda over biased the front (probably to avoid rear lockup with ABS failure), so a rear upgrade could help.

The real problem here is that ideal brake bias is a constantly moving target. Relocate the battery & lower the suspension, and you need more rear brakes. Then add sticky tires, and more weight transfers to the front under the higher braking loads...

 

Warren, if there is a set of DTC-60 pads available I could test them at Thunderhill on the 21st of this month. I left you a message on your voicemail. I'm very interested in moving completely to the DTC compounds as I feel they work exceptionally well with your rotors and better than the HT-10. It sounds like there is growing interest for this pad.

-ch

 

Update: Warren actually has the DTC-60 in stock for the RX7 rear; I'm going to get a set out here for my next event. GooRoo, you and Damien might want to jump on this ASAP as well.

-ch

 

Yeah, I noticed that on teh web site and sent in an inquiry. Since I don't have a RB front kit I would have to get someone to make DTC 60's for my front calipers (95-98 911 turbo) as well. I'd love to test and post a review.

Based on what I've heard I think we will like them.

 

>>5) Very, very bad knockback, to the point that I'm changing all my wheel bearings just to be sure

I had the same issue on my race car, I installed knockback springs and that solved it.

 

Thanks Sdoow. What pad will you suggest with that setup? Aggressive street.

 

Damian, could you be more specific about what springs you used? I'm not too familiar with your setup so if you could fill me in on what calipers you're running, and what springs you chose? I know StopTech makes some springs, and HRP sells some PFC springs here:

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?fo...action=product

I'm not sure of the spec on the springs; I've seen 4-7 lbs per inch as typical. I'd need to find something that's compatible with the RB440 calipers in my Racing Brake kit.

Thanks!

-ch

 

Sure, here is a link to the thread on my race car brakes setup:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723283

I did get the springs from HRP, here are the details of my springs:
Part Number Part Title
PFC900.900.106.02 36mm & Smaller Piston Anti-Knock-Back Springs - 4 Pack
PFC900.900.106.01 36.5mm & Up Piston Anti-Knock-Back Springs - 4 Pack

You just need to get the proper spring size for your caliper pistons. I have stoptech calipers and they are offset pistons sizes for leading and trailing, so I needed to get 2 different size springs. Install was pretty easy, just remove the pistons, put in the springs, reinstall pistons.

 

No trimming of the springs? Is it a pain to change the pads with the springs pushing the pistons out of the bores all the time? Did you notice any accelerated wear rates?

Thanks, Damian.

-ch