ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

Ditto, Warren is working his magic. I can't wait to see what the Wizard comes up with. hehe.

Rishie

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Howard, I hope you mean use your OE caliper, not "your OEM rotor" . . .

Also, I am hoping that this would fit within 16-inch wheels.

:-) neil

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

No, not according to Warren. WE will only produce a kit that will work with the stock calipers. THat's the premise for doing this kit. So it's cost effective.

Rishie

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

The RZ setup won't fit in the 16" wheels. The currently offered US Spec FD Two piece rotors will.

Rishie

wanklin

iTrader: (2)

4mm of additional rotor width should not require any caliper modifications since the brake cylinders have plenty of wiggle room around the stockers when compressed.

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

^gotcha . I guess 4mm is really not all that much.

swif

iTrader: (4)

Read the thread. So with this you can us stock calipers all around? Is there gooing to be a kit that will also give th option of new lighter calpers that will have the balance from frount to rear?

jkstill

iTrader: (11)

Possibly so.

I put a Wilwood SL-6 brake kit on my car, and the rotors are 325 mm.

Perhaps the M2 kit was a bit different.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

all rotors look great when you pull them out of the box.

how do you think they look after 25 HOURS of roadracing????

these RacingBrake two piece rotors were on the front of an NASA EVO. i have never seen a better looking raced rotor.

no doubt Warren's pad selection also contributed.

Yes, Jim, i am panting as i marvel at the condition of these babies. they are smiling after 25 hours of roadracing.

an EVO no less. probably very close to 60% front weight. that means over 85% weight transfer to the front in a 1.375 G stop. For 25 hours.

warren knows his stuff....






howard coleman

No Cones

Just to add my vote... I'd be most interested in the largest, most effective (i.e., matched) 4 wheel BBK (keeping ABS) that will fit under 18" wheels. E-brake is unnecessary.

There is a substantial number of FDs used primarily for track purposes and if we are at a point where we are spec'ing a setup from "scratch" it seems reasonable to design the best possible (price being a factor) system possible.

sereneseven

^ I call BS that those have 25hrs in full race condition. The veins arent even discolored. what kind of rotor temps was he seeing? Either that or the tires he's using have zero grip, using a super hard pad and brakes like a girl there is just no way.

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

Like howard said, pad selection would play a big part. There's no way they were using Hawk Blues on there.

I'm guessing they used something rotor friendly so they could get through the 25 hour on one set of rotors and 3+ sets of pads, since changing those is quick comparatively.

In any case, the rotor condition there is impressive given the use.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Awesome! So, any ETA on these??

jimlab

Or Porterfield R-4s...


If they're only going to make rotors for use with stock calipers, does that mean '93-'95 stock calipers, or '99+ stock calipers, or both?

Node

iTrader: (1)

I would be definately intrested in any stock caliper FC front/rear rotor solution that you guys come up with.
these look way better than the other 2 piece stock rotor i found which needed some grinding to fit.
make some for FC!!!!

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

Definitely, once we get this ball rolling for the FD. I'll hit them up for the FC as that's all I own anyways. hehe.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

update:

warren should receive a rear FD caliper today to go w the caliper mounting bracket he received last week. i will be speaking to warren today and pass on what i can.

warren is on the case so all just hang in there and we may shortly have new FD brake hardware.

i do plan to find out the details re the 25 hour rotor pics i posted earlier. all i know, via a post from the driver, is that the car placed 2nd in class. i hope to get lap times v the class and cars in class etc.

also, there's lots of reads on this thread and lots of differing interest as to needs. i would like this RB/FD relationship to be as much of a WIN WIN for everyone as possible. i do appreciate all who have posted and welcome further participation as it all helps get a sense of need.

howard coleman

Speedworks

I'm with Jim about his last question. If you want to make this an all round kit with the widest market possible, you should start from 93-95 stock calipers front and back.

wanklin

iTrader: (2)

exactly. 93/95 calipers utilizing the largest rotors possible, front and back.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

Brake Tech. #2

Longitudinal Weight Transfer/Brake Bias

engineering it right makes it simple


The stock FD generates 68% braking force at the front tires in a relatively aggressive stop.

That’s taking a power assisted 4.1 pedal ratio, .94 master cylinders, 1.42 diameter front caliper bores, 1.37 rear caliper bore, 11.6 inch rotors and a 24.9 inch tire.

If you remember the weight shifts on braking from post 73 page 5… the FD generates a 56% front weight at .5 G, a 63% shift at 1 G and a 71% shift at 1.375 Gs.

The stock system is right there w regard to bias. To keep the rears from locking at 1.375 G when the bias is greater in the rear than it needs to be the proportioning valve bleeds off a little pressure.

If you have installed a big brake kit on the front and not touched the rear, like me, you have 74% front braking force.

do keep in mind that that is 6% more than needed in front and 6% less than needed in the rear. LOSE LOSE

We have taken a perfectly tailored bias and added too much to the front and taken away what we needed in the rear. (bias is like a teeter totter… you load one end, you unload the other).

Any brake upgrade must retain within 1 or 2 points the OEM bias of 68-32%.

That’s one of the reasons RacinBrake’s upgrade for the NSX works so well as it retains the original caliper and just upgrades the overall force.

It is also one of the reasons RacingBrake is coming out with a smaller 4 piston caliper… the caliper will be the perfect (not too large to throw off the bias) size to function in the rear when upgrading the front.

There are many other metrics involved as to finding the balance of course. Rotor size is a major consideration. Warren is building a 14 inch rotor (front) and a 13.375 (rear) for the C6 ZO6. he is also doing a 6 piston front caliper that balances perfectly against the smaller 4 piston rear.

Given the ZO6s similar size (post 73), I wouldn’t be surprised if someone were to…..

Should the right balance be achieved it would appear to me that w the right proportioning valve or pad balance the ultimate FD brakes might be had without going thru the hassle of single manual brake cylinders w a balance bar.

That’s why this post is entitled:

The right engineering can keep things simple.

howard coleman

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

The car was #18, a E0 class Mitsubishi Evo RS.
Team K&N WORKS Goodsport Racing

There's a fair amount of info on the team on their website:

http://www.goodsportracing.com/

Here's their writeup from the event:

http://www.goodsportracing.com/index...ObjectID=22869

Here's a complete 25 hour lap chart for the Team:

http://www.whack.org/~prd/enduro06/l...8&output=table

There's bunch of other pics of the car as well:

http://www.dleong.org/2006/track/25h...s/image26.html
http://www.dleong.org/2006/track/25h.../image117.html
http://www.goodsportracing.com/pics/thill-prac.jpg

Of particular note is this from the writeup:

The car has Porterfield and Hawk stickers... so that might give some idea as to the composition of the 'WORKS WRP' brake pads. You can see on their site ( http://www.worksevo.com/store/index.php?cPath=24 ) that they list the Racing Brake rotors as 'WRP 2-piece slotted rotors'.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

here's a picture of a 324 mm diameter rotor that will probably be the size of the rear 2 piece, directionally convergent vaned centermount RacingBrake rear rotor v the stock rotor.

please discount the hubs as they aren't the centervane FD setup.

weight should be similar to stock but leverage, heat absorption etc will be way up.

this rotor will match up w a soon to be spec'ed front rotor and OEM caliper relocation bracket.

go warren go.

howard coleman



howard coleman

rx7what

iTrader: (6)

Looks great. I would be in for the larger rears with stock calipers, and the largest front rotors with larger calipers.

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

Excellent!!! Thanks for the work on this again, and pass the good word on to Warren. I really would love a new properly balanced (and cost effective) setup like it appears this will be.

Thanks also for the tech info, I've read all these posts at least five times now.

Speedworks

Is this the case?