ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I've got a StopTech front kit, and have avoided drawing too many comparisons here, for fear of seeming like I'm crapping on the RB kit, but since you mentioned them as a comparison point, here's what I've experienced:

1. I've not done the sort of exhaustive, data-driven testing you have, but I've no indication that the unducted ST's suffer any thermal problems. I ran them for 2+ seasons unducted on the same set of rotors (even once badly overheaded because I ran the pads down to the backing plates accidentally), and they hadn't shown any more than the usual surface cracking. I finally replaced them, just because I didn't want to get caught at an event when a crack finally made it to the edge. I've since added dedicated ducts anyway, hoping it would help longevity further though.

2. Knockback does happen, particularly on 285 Hoosiers, but I'm going to see if a 929 MC helps at all (mine still stock).

3. No uneven wear or taper experienced.

4. Dedicated ducts on the street aren't noisy... but I am going to fab some flashing guards for them to protect from wheel rub. That's really the only issue. Any leaves that got in there would certainly be vaporized after a few laps :-)

5. I'm still trying out different pads for wear, but PFC 01's are the best so far.

Beast From The East

All - I did a search in this thread and only found mention of Porterfield's R-4S street compound, but no mention of their R-4 Full Race compound...only Hawk, PFC, and Racing Brake's pads. Did anyone try the Porterfield stuff? I've used the R-4S for street for several years with very good results, and my friend races vintage in a Panard and TR4 for vintage with Bill Porterfield and has great success with his products.

I'm going to be investing in my first set of race pads and will likely end up with the RB BBK front and rear, but am looking to make baby steps. I'm fairly certain I'll use up what is left on the R-4S pads this weekend at Thunderhill.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Contact RB and see what they say about Porterfields. They typically recommend Hawks or their house brand as that is what they tested their rotors with. I think you are on your own if you wish to use other pads.

Beast From The East

I ordered a set of the R-4 pads in case I burn through the R-4S pads that are on the car now. Since this is my first road track school I doubt that I'll be exercising the car at the same level as the other experienced racers on this thread. I'm using stock calipers still, with Brembo slotted rotors up front (very new, maybe a couple thousand easy street miles on them). If the R-4 pad gives me issues, I'll switch to the RB or Hawk products. I'm sure I'll convert to the products discussed in this thread once I go BBK (based on the hard core drivers here, like Hyperion and Howard, who's been on the Big List for every and is a revered Elder Statesman), it looks like the RB kit is the best way to go for what is currently available. Nice to see all these folks blazing the trail for the rest of us.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

Has anyone else punished these on the track?

Howard Coleman..... has the ice melted in your region yet?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

waiting is a PIA.

i am day to day waiting on a module from FJO. it was supposed to be to me by march 31. i am hopeful i will have it within a week and i will then need to redo my base fuel on the dyno.

i have a new set of shaved 255/295s for the test, a new adj rear wing and an anti-starvation panel in my fuel tank so i am set to go.

just before march 31 i emailed the new rx7 guy at RB re pads for my test. i wanted to know what they suggest would be best for test. i didn't receive an answer.

after all the pad issues last year i have concluded that there is really no such thing as a multipurpose pad for our cars.

so i will not be testing ET700s or 800s on track because i am fairly certain i could shred them in short order.

since i am not quite ready for the track, waiting for the module, i haven't followed up w RB but will as soon as i receive the module.

meanwhile i am running ET500s on the street and have logged another 1000 miles in 08. everytime i stand on the brakes they talk to me.... lots of torque there. wear pattern on the rotors looks great too.

hc

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Not road racing feedback, but on the Tail of the Dragon (318 curves in 11 miles) the RB kit performed flawlessly (ET500 pads). Lots of braking from 70 mph down to 20ish, every few seconds. Zero brake fade, good bite, inspired the confidence to accelerate deep into turns on the side of a mountain. I was able to quickly leave stock-brake FDs in my dust

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"leave stock-brake FDs in my dust "

speaking of dust.... how were the 500s as far as dust?

damian

iTrader: (2)

RAcing season is starting soon, I will have more data on the RB rears.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Surprisingly it was very minimal

I'm optimistic to try out the RB setup with something more aggressive, I know the ET500s are fairly tame.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

I've had mine on since Jan 2008 and have now done two track days maybe 2k street miles. One track day was at Horse Thief Mile and another at Buttonwillow.

THESE BRAKES ROCK!!!!!!!!!!

My car: street port, 99 twins with all the bolt ons and run 10 PSI. Estimate ~300 RWHP at 10 PSI. Dyno'ed ~330 at 13 PSI and 357 at 15 PSI. Suspension is Konis with H&R Springs and Eibach sway bars. Also running 929 Master Cylinder and Super Blue brake fluid. Tires are Kumho MX 255/40/17.

I'm running Hawk HPS and now ET500 on street. Ran Hawk HT10 at Buttonwillow.

I was previously running the 99 RS/RZ OEM BBK with Porterfields.

Horse Thief Mile:
At Horse Thief Mile I didn't even bother with track pads as the track is very short. I ran the RB kit with my Hawk HPS pads. Even with the HPS pads, the brake system had enough torque to haul the car very quickly. I was hard on brakes engaging ABS all day long on that slow track.

The brakes just kept on working all day long w/o issue. The pedal felt awesome and was confidence inspiring. The braking distance and speeds are low at HTM (and it was a cold day), the brakes held up well and didn't overheat. I was surprised that I didn't need more pad at that track but its basically an autox course.

I also spent some time on the "skid pad" over at the Willow Springs complex. That was pretty cool as I was able to experiment to see how the car would react to certain events. I did stupid stuff like drop throttle mid corner, brake hard mid corner etc. Plenty of safe run off area so I was just sitting there doing all the stupid stuff you shouldn't do on track that would upset the car. What I learned was the car was pretty well balances suspension wise and the so were the brakes - and they had lots of braking power.


Buttonwillow 2008:
I was at Buttonwillow in 2007 with the 99 kit and Porterfields. I went back last month for a 2 day event running the RB BBK. I started out running ET500 pads and drove to the track on them. They have more bite than the Hawk HPS pads and feel pretty good for aggressive street driving.

Since I'm new to NASA, I started out running HPDE1 and got signed off to run HPDE2. They didn't have enough instructors so I ran HPDE2 by myself the rest of the day - which was fine as there was less traffic than HPDE3.

I ran the ET500s the first day to see what would happen. I figured that there wasn't enough speed to run a more aggressive pad in that class. It was slow going the first session but picked up quickly thereafter. Even so the brakes felt really good with lots of torque and worked very well at hauling the car down from speed. They did start to fade after any straight where speeds exceeded ~100 MPH so these are definitely not track pads.

The major thing that I noticed this first day was how much more torque and stopping power I had and the balance of the car under braking. The car felt like it had a little more rear bite under braking which helped keep the car stable under hard braking into a corner and decreased weight transfer to the front.

I switched to Hawk HT10 on all 4 corners on Day 2 in preparation of a day of fast driving. These are some very aggressive pads with lots of bite. Very cool. This was an eye opening day. The car is fast on track and well balanced suspension wise with tires that are very consistent but not R-comp grippy. With the RB kit, I was able to drive the car harder and with more confidence than I have ever felt.

The RB kit with HT10s stop right now. Get on them hard and you got some serious negative G forces. I had more braking power than suspension and grip and it took me a while to re-learn how to drive with the extra braking force. The braking power was very consistent all around the track. The car was very controllable under threshold braking after the straights. No fade. No wandering. No drama.

What really impressed me the most was the braking balance. I like to trail brake and I like to brake aggressively (learned that racing karts). On the Rs/RZ kit, I couldn't get the Buttonhook to work for me at speed. I was hard on brakes going in and there was a lot of weight being transferred to the front of the car making a clean entry to that corner difficult. With the RB kit, I was hard on brakes off the straight into turn 1 and hard on brakes again going into Buttonhook. It gave me enough rear brake and braking balance to not transfer as much weight to the front of the car and properly setup for that (and other) turns.

I'm not sure I'm doing a good enough job communicating this but it felt f'in amazing.

Another thing that has really impressed me is the pedal feel. I had lots of knockback with the 99 Rs/RZ kit. I have had none with this kit with my suspension and tire package. No need to "tap-up" and prep the brakes for a hard stop. I was very pleased with this also. Actually, ecstatic might be a better descriptor. The knockback of the old setup really frustrated me and caused me to not have as much confidence in the brakes. Now the pedal feels really good all the time.

For my suspension setup and grip levels of the Kumho MX that I run, I think I might need a less aggressive pad as I seem to have more braking power than either suspension or grip. I think I might try the Hawk Blacks. I agree with Howard and don't bother with ET500 or ET700 for track use. Not sure about the ET900s though.


Some background on me...
I've been doing HPDE on/off since 1988 (yeah, I'm getting old). Stopped for 4 years to race karts from 99-on. In the past I usually ran Group 3 sometimes Group 4 depending on how fast the cars were. I usually didn't run Group 4 b/c I generally drove momentum cars like 84 VW, 88 FC and NA Miata with occasional stints in slightly faster cars like the TII and e36.

I hope this feedback answered some questions for you guys. I am absolutely loving these brakes. Thanks Howard for spear heading this effort. The development process had some hiccups but the end product has been worth it.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Oh, regarding dust. Not bad on HPS or ET500 on street.

I didn't wash my car for 4 days after the Buttonwillow event and the dust came off pretty easily with a wheel spoke brush and some Meguiar's All Wheel cleaner.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Can you please clarify the correct direction they should spin? I made this quick drawing showing the curved air channels within the rotor (RED LINES)..

Which is the correct orientation, 1 or 2?

Thanks,
Ian

hyperion

iTrader: (2)

You want #2, where the air is drawn out of the center of the rotor due to low pressure.

-ch

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

lifted from RB's info-rich site.

hc

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Thanks.. I knew my shop was putting them on backwards.

habu2

Ian, did you have the RB kit on your car at MSR last weekend? Wish I'd gotten a closer look at your car...

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

just received word my delayed module will be in my hands by wed-thurs next week. shouldn't be too much longer.

hc

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

Hyperion- Have you taken the car to the track again? What track pads are you running? How is the Racelogic traction control working?

Who is running a stock FD master cylinder and who is running the 929 setup that actually has beaten these brakes on the track? No autoX stuff or aggressive street driving. Serious track use....

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

What module are you waiting for Howard?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

module is the new generation FJO AI system. i received a (delayed) version last Nov but it has a lock up issue as to logging. that has been fixed so i can now do my dyno stuff and then get ontrack.

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

Gotcha, that's what I was thinking. I really like their engineering of the injector box. I'm really interested to see what you think of their WI setup.

jknapik

iTrader: (17)

those are real hot, cant wait to know how much they gonna go for

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Just wanted to post a quick update on the ET500 pads compared to the Hawk HPS on the full RacingBrake BBK.

I've been running the ET500s for a couple of months and a few thousand miles. Have done one track day at Buttonwillow and a decent amount of aggressive street driving on them.


The verdict: They are great!


I really wish I had bought these rather than the Hawk HPS pads the first time around.

The Hawk HPS pads have decent stopping power but feel "wooden". They slow the car down but when you stand on the brake pedal they don't really feel like they are biting hard. This lack of feel makes you question the effectiveness and doesn't inspire much confidence - especially in aggressive driving.

The RacingBrake ET500s in comparison feel MUCH BETTER. When you get on them, you feel the pads biting harder and slowing you down in a more urgent matter. They really do inspire more confidence in your braking system. The car is much more fun to drive as a result as you don't have to wonder if the brakes are working OK. You KNOW they are working and feel it with every step of the brake pedal.

Modulation on the ET500 pads are also better than the Hawk HPS pads. I felt like I had to hit the pedal very hard with the Hawk HPS to get the car to stop. With the ET500 pads, I feel like I can more comfortably vary braking pressure to suit the situation at hand rather than stomp on the brake pedal for every hard turn or stop.

Dusting is reasonable on both pads. I need some more time between car washes but it seems like the RacingBrake ET500 pads dust a little less. It washes off easily with soap and water.

I am impressed. The pads really behaved themselves well both on the street and stood up well to some decent abuse on track. Very minimal wear, friendly on rotors. They didn't break apart when pushed beyond their limits on track. Dusting isn't bad either. Very good bite and good confident feeling to them. Good stuff.

I got to say again, I wish I had purchased these from the start. Highly recommend them.

Given the performance that these pads have offered, I think I might try the ET900s on my next track day. I need to find track events in NorCal now that I'm moving up near Palo Alto.

Cheers.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i second your postive feedback re the ET500s. i have 1000 miles on them this year and love the way they put you thru the front windshield w modest pedal pressure. my car is white and i run 12 spoke aluminum wheels and the dust is quite reasonable.

tomorrow i will be receiving a complete new set of RB brakes (paid list) for my nephew's LS2FD and we will be running ET500s on the street.

if you haven't bumped into it check out my thread "Shootout at the O K Corral." this match race will use RBs and will be pedal to the metal.

hc