I was wonderig what the best Tien damper set would be for drifting and Auto cross. I was looking at HA HE and RA. Any other suggestios or info and advice would be great Thanks.

Brand new owner of a silver 1993 twin turbo RX-7!

 

I would think that a drifting setup would be completely different from an auto-x setup. You're trying to achieve two entirely different ways of using the tire's grip. Otherwise, RA's seem to be a good compromise for an auto-x shock.

 

Indeed these are two diffrent setups, but I would liek to at least be able to chnage the setup for both ways of driving. In other words, I want a usupension I can tune to both styles.

 

They developed one set just for drifting, He's maybe? not sure which ones they were, I think that the Flex would be the best, and you can tune it from inside your car with the controller, and save different settings to change rates at the push of a button, So i think that they will be best for you,

-Chris

p.s. This is what im doing

 

The Flex are the best....

 

was reading another board an drifters who have he's want a stiffer set up. but for the novice and limited track use the he's seem like they would be a good choice.

 

You're not just saying that, just because those are the ones you own are you?

 

Stiff suspension is relatively necessary for both, but with drifting, you'd want a stiffer sway bar in the rear to break the traction sooner in the turn / induce oversteer. In auto-x, you'd want to have some flex in that rear sway bar to allow for some cushioning body roll in the rear to keep the impulse of a turn smooth enough to keep the tail from getting carried away.

 

Hmmmm so it seems the HE's would be better then the Flex becasue they were made for drifting, and all that really matter is the stiffness of a bar. Becasue you can do more fine tuning with HE's, and so that is what I am considering then. Plus I plan the weld the entire chassis witht the frame soon.

 

No for drifting you want no rear sway bar, and a stiffer front one, it keeps the front end of the car from moving around alot, and the rear has some roll which causes the tires to break loose faster.

yes the HE's were made for drifting, but he wants to do two things, and the HE's aren't made for one of those, so the best bet he could make would be the Flex as i first posted, they offer the most adjustability, and are the only ones that you can save your settings, and change rates driving down the road.

-Chris

 

With coilover suspension, you are already doing much to reduce body roll. Having a sway bar that is too stiff not only reduces body roll, but makes it so that the impulse of inertial forces on the tires is quickened with a shorter amount of roll allowance. In the equations of the related physics, you'll find that for the same car, the amount of force will increase during the inertial impulse of the same turn if the distance the force of the impulse is exerted over decreases. Zero body roll allowance in the rear will quicken the impulse of momentum transfer into the tires when the car is setting up for the drift. Upon that initial snap, the car can hit its threshold of grip more immediately on the rear tires as no extra flex is permitted to cushion its momentum. Imbalancing the anti-roll levels for the front and rear of the car will help you change the threshold of tire grip also. During GT racing, most drivers will drive in rain with the sway bars disconnected so that more body roll is permitted. These lengthens the distance within the impulse and makes for the body to absorb some of the momentum instead of transferring it directly into the tires. As you know, tires have a lower threshold of grip in the rain, so quickest steering is sacrificed for some extra insurance to keep the tires from breaking loose. As soon as the track dries up and the grip threshold increases, sway bars can be reconnected so that the drivers can get more from their tires and get that quickest steering back.

If you've ever watched a stock FD at a Solo event or during a drift, you'll see how its body rolls before the tires break loose. This absorbing action of the body converts momentum with extra movement of the body instead of forcing it into the tires. As they say, "foot work is what gets the power to the ground". For drifting, you want a setup that can keep the rear of the car flat for more control with both tires spinning. Watch some Japanese drifting videos and see how little body roll their cars have in the rear. There seems to be more up front sometimes when going through very deep angle drifts. Some people play around with their alignment to get the car to handle differently when drifting, but I think a lot of that is more a matter of preference once you get past the primary suspension setup. I believe many of the drifters also use suspension setups with high or even equal front-rear spring rates. Just one more thing to do to stiffen up the rear when setting up for the drift.

 

Just want to add that during performance driving, body roll is typically not a good thing as it makes the car less responsive and harder to control when fliping and sliding around. If you were to rely on body roll to break the tires loose, you would be twisting and disorienting the state of the car to the point that you'd actually be peeling the tires off the road instead of just using more direct forces of intertia to push the car sideways going into a turn. With extra body roll and going in and out of slides, you'll be more likely to lose control when the car snaps. Try going into a drift or a power slide, and then when you've got the car in a good angle, fairly sideways to the direction you are moving, take your foot completely off the accelerator pedal. You wont appreciate the body roll while its throwing you around as you're trying to countersteer back and forth.

 

other then setting up the perfect suspension, having good drift tires is all the difference in the world. I have some old BFG R-1's i got from a friend for free (im a poor college student and take what i can get), and i have to tell you right now, i can recover from going crazy sideways like no other.

I have had my car almost totally sideways, and some how, i have managed to bring the rear back under the car. If i tried the same thing on my street tires, there would be no way i would come back from a drift that deap.

I could not believe how much i could slide them, and apparently either could the people at my auto x. Iv never had people come up and talk to me and look at my car just because i 'drift'.
the car is pretty sexy though

 

I watch millions of drifting videos so I know exactly what you are talking about Mako. And I understand the body roll as well, anyone that drives hard will know this from experience. So I am down to 3 things now. Flex or HE's I will ask around alittle more, but it seems the flex would be a good choice for what I want to do. Now the only thing left is, what kind of tire do I really want to use and what would be the best sway bar? I will most likely seam weld the enitre chassis as well this winter. Since I have an autobody shop at my disposal. So ay other advice would be great. And yes OC, drifting is quiet sexy indeed

 

Im in the process of seam welding now, Its a bitch and is really getting tiresome, but oh well its for the better. I guess you could call it preference on teh sway bar thing, i like my rear to have some roll i just like the feel of it better and i know more of what its going to do then with a stiiffer rear bar. I personaly just like the rear sway bar on there, its just about right for me, With the tein coilovers and the stock sway bar i feel that i have the best setup for me. I dont get thrown around by my car at all when going into or out of a drift,

-Chris

 

You could always go with the Flex and upgrade to a higher spring rate later if needed.

 

How high do you think I should take the spring rate? Because I want a pretty stiff setup. And how long have you been seam welding now? Do you have any tips you could throw my way before I start? About the electronic setup for the Teins, is that system any good? Becasue I really don't liek to depend on electronics when it comes to that kind of thing.

 

for drift, the setup is all driver preferance...

some drivers run mega high spring rates to reduce body roll. some run stock sway bars, some run upgraded, some run only one upgraded. Some run 4 sticky tires, some run 2. Some run mega wide tires (275), some run normal sized (225).

it is all up to what you feel comfortable with. you can make the car rotate faster or slower with the appropriate mods, you can use less throttle to control the rear end with the proper mods. or more throttle if you like a snappy (grippy) rear. You can run a low grip front and do 4 wheel slides on high speed straights.

 

Thats pretty much the whole idea sir.

Drifting on street tires will give you more control, after you learn to can control them.

 

let me say this first. I dont go out and try to drift, nor have i been to a drift event. but some times, things just happen and i find my self pushing my car through the finishline cones at my autoX totally sideways.

i dont know about that Initial.... yes, these street tires i have are totally worn as they are.. but so are these r1's
and they have already saved my *** from going into 'the tree' at blackhawk farms raceway at 60+ mph.

Iv always heard that high profile street tires inflated to a huge psi was the way to go for drifting. Iv never done that to my street tires, but after racing on street tires for a long time, and then getting these r1', i can tell you right now i have way more control and can carry my 'drift' longer and more stable then with my street tires, and these are on 17" wheels. (street tires where 15"s)

maybe my street tires just suck? which they do... they are dunlop D60 A2s or somthing like that. i would never recomend them to anyone.

 

Actually a low profile and low psi is the best way to go. the tire wall doesnt "fold" as easily. and low psi cuz the heat will cause it to rise to a "safe" psi level and not chunk the tire up too much.

 

Not sure about the coilovers, but a few words about suspension setup.

You definitely want the shocks to be as adjustable as necessary. You can tune how your car behaves by stiffening or softening rear or front shocks. Given price, I'd go for whichever CO setup gives you more adjustability.

Same goes for the rear sway bar. While a cheap way to go about it would be to remove the rear bar to make the car more tail happy for drifting, it isn't good for the street or autoX. Having adjustable sway bars (or at least an adjustable rear bar) will allow you to tune how much oversteer or how loose you want the rear of the car.

In the end no matter which set of CO you get, its all about the tuning. After you install that, you gotta get out there and do some testing on all the different settings to get an idea of what settings to change to get your overall desired result. From what I've seen a drifting setup is similar to a loose autox setup - it allows the rear of the car to rotate in a controllable manner.

Then pick a set of tires that have grip, yet can be broken loose with the power you have and feel controllable at the limit. You don't want tires where you can't feel the limits. The tires need to communicate well.

My 2 cents. Good luck and have fun.

 

WOw that sums it up pretty well on drifting setup for me. Thanks. Oly problem is the damn shipping company still hasn't brought my RX-7!!!!!!

 

Okay, I have a question about wheel setup now. I was planning to go with 17in wheels first, BBS most likely due to thier light weight and great looks. But The RGRs are 18in ones and 18lbs. What concerns me is, woudl a 17 inch be better or an 18 when it comes down to handeling?