What is the diff with all of the To4's
11-05-01, 04:02 PM
#3
Slave2TheFD
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Well I'm not an expert but I have been researching it:
Going by size:
T04B (for hondas :-) ) [300-350HP] - Turbonetics
T04E (60-1 Hi-Fi, 60-1, 62-1) [350-450HP] - Turbonetics
T04R (Garrett ?) [400-500HP]
T04X is a XS Engineering trademark (Garret) [475HP according to XS]
Going by size:
T04B (for hondas :-) ) [300-350HP] - Turbonetics
T04E (60-1 Hi-Fi, 60-1, 62-1) [350-450HP] - Turbonetics
T04R (Garrett ?) [400-500HP]
T04X is a XS Engineering trademark (Garret) [475HP according to XS]
11-05-01, 04:06 PM
#4
Junior Member
Originally posted by Jedon
Well I'm not an expert but I have been researching it:
Going by size:
T04B (for hondas :-) ) [300-350HP] - Turbonetics
T04E (60-1 Hi-Fi, 60-1, 62-1) [350-450HP] - Turbonetics
T04R (Garrett ?) [400-500HP]
T04X is a XS Engineering trademark (Garret) [475HP according to XS]
Well I'm not an expert but I have been researching it:
Going by size:
T04B (for hondas :-) ) [300-350HP] - Turbonetics
T04E (60-1 Hi-Fi, 60-1, 62-1) [350-450HP] - Turbonetics
T04R (Garrett ?) [400-500HP]
T04X is a XS Engineering trademark (Garret) [475HP according to XS]
Petros
11-05-01, 04:13 PM
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Well I'm not an expert but I have been researching it:
Going by size:
T04B (for hondas :-) ) [300-350HP] - Turbonetics
T04E (60-1 Hi-Fi, 60-1, 62-1) [350-450HP] - Turbonetics
T04R (Garrett ?) [400-500HP]
T04X is a XS Engineering trademark (Garret) [475HP according to XS]
Going by size:
T04B (for hondas :-) ) [300-350HP] - Turbonetics
T04E (60-1 Hi-Fi, 60-1, 62-1) [350-450HP] - Turbonetics
T04R (Garrett ?) [400-500HP]
T04X is a XS Engineering trademark (Garret) [475HP according to XS]
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11-05-01, 08:59 PM
#8
Slave2TheFD
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Well that's about 500 to the wheels, and he doesn't get there until what, 9000+ rpm? I highly respect RICE RACING but I have different goals, I would like boost to start a bit lower so I think I'll go with a a larger housing and a smaller A/R (not too small, perhaps .96) for road racing and AutoX. I'm no expert like I said, those were just general guidelines.
-Jedon
-Jedon
11-06-01, 02:24 AM
#9
inteligent extratarestril
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hate to spoil the party guys but i gotta add some factual stuff in here.
Rice Racing's set up, is a T04B with a 1.32A/R divided P trim exhuast side, and a r-11 compressor in a 0.70A/R compressor housing.
With his custom manifold - built by himself after some testing of different designs, he gets positive manifold pressure at 2000rpm, yes thats right he has next to no lag what so ever.
His turbo is sized to rip you a new **** between 5000 and 8000 rpm, and his rev limit is set at 8800rpm i think you'll find
it makes 530HP at the flywheel when running 14.5psi boost and
590Hp at the flywheel when running 19psi boost.
the difference between his car and most of the cars in the US is. all his stuff is pretty much custom made, you cant buy his turbo in a "kit" which bolts straight in, you see we dont take the US "buy it off the shelf and bolt it in" approach, we get all the specs of the stuff we want, go to the nearest supplier, ask him to put together a certain unit, weather it be intercooler, turbo or what have you, and then we get some fittings made up to feed the oil and water lines etc etc etc.
Rice Racing's set up, is a T04B with a 1.32A/R divided P trim exhuast side, and a r-11 compressor in a 0.70A/R compressor housing.
With his custom manifold - built by himself after some testing of different designs, he gets positive manifold pressure at 2000rpm, yes thats right he has next to no lag what so ever.
His turbo is sized to rip you a new **** between 5000 and 8000 rpm, and his rev limit is set at 8800rpm i think you'll find
it makes 530HP at the flywheel when running 14.5psi boost and
590Hp at the flywheel when running 19psi boost.
the difference between his car and most of the cars in the US is. all his stuff is pretty much custom made, you cant buy his turbo in a "kit" which bolts straight in, you see we dont take the US "buy it off the shelf and bolt it in" approach, we get all the specs of the stuff we want, go to the nearest supplier, ask him to put together a certain unit, weather it be intercooler, turbo or what have you, and then we get some fittings made up to feed the oil and water lines etc etc etc.
11-06-01, 07:20 AM
#10
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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TO4-E
Personaly I have a TO4-E, on my FD. Im shooting about
430-450. T04`s are all the same, just different compressor
TO4 is the exhaust housing size. The T04-R is the most
for your money. Although. If you want lots of go and
break your engine fast. Just order a T51-special threw
me and have over a 1000 horse`s depending on your
engine.
430-450. T04`s are all the same, just different compressor
TO4 is the exhaust housing size. The T04-R is the most
for your money. Although. If you want lots of go and
break your engine fast. Just order a T51-special threw
me and have over a 1000 horse`s depending on your
engine.
11-06-01, 08:46 AM
#11
Junior Member
Re: TO4-E
Originally posted by canman6969
Personaly I have a TO4-E, on my FD. Im shooting about
430-450. T04`s are all the same, just different compressor
TO4 is the exhaust housing size. The T04-R is the most
for your money. Although. If you want lots of go and
break your engine fast. Just order a T51-special threw
me and have over a 1000 horse`s depending on your
engine.
Personaly I have a TO4-E, on my FD. Im shooting about
430-450. T04`s are all the same, just different compressor
TO4 is the exhaust housing size. The T04-R is the most
for your money. Although. If you want lots of go and
break your engine fast. Just order a T51-special threw
me and have over a 1000 horse`s depending on your
engine.
Petros
11-06-01, 12:18 PM
#12
Slave2TheFD
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So the designation T04 is for the Exhaust turbine housing, which is then further broken down into different A/R's which are determined by the size and shape of the exhaust turbine wheel?
Then theT04B,T04E,T04R is the compressor housing, with wheel being 60-1, 62-1 etc and the shape of the wheel being the O,P,Q trim? Just trying to make sure I have all this terminology correct.
As for Rice Racing, if his setup is so great it would seem that major car manufacturers would be very interested in how to make turbo rotaries that effective. He is also selling his car.
Don't get me wrong, I love his work, and don't doubt the results but there has to be a tradeoff somewhere.
-Jedon
Then theT04B,T04E,T04R is the compressor housing, with wheel being 60-1, 62-1 etc and the shape of the wheel being the O,P,Q trim? Just trying to make sure I have all this terminology correct.
As for Rice Racing, if his setup is so great it would seem that major car manufacturers would be very interested in how to make turbo rotaries that effective. He is also selling his car.
Don't get me wrong, I love his work, and don't doubt the results but there has to be a tradeoff somewhere.
-Jedon
03-22-02, 06:26 AM
#14
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally posted by Jedon
So the designation T04 is for the Exhaust turbine housing, which is then further broken down into different A/R's which are determined by the size and shape of the exhaust turbine wheel?
Then theT04B,T04E,T04R is the compressor housing, with wheel being 60-1, 62-1 etc and the shape of the wheel being the O,P,Q trim? Just trying to make sure I have all this terminology correct.
As for Rice Racing, if his setup is so great it would seem that major car manufacturers would be very interested in how to make turbo rotaries that effective. He is also selling his car.
Don't get me wrong, I love his work, and don't doubt the results but there has to be a tradeoff somewhere.
-Jedon
So the designation T04 is for the Exhaust turbine housing, which is then further broken down into different A/R's which are determined by the size and shape of the exhaust turbine wheel?
Then theT04B,T04E,T04R is the compressor housing, with wheel being 60-1, 62-1 etc and the shape of the wheel being the O,P,Q trim? Just trying to make sure I have all this terminology correct.
As for Rice Racing, if his setup is so great it would seem that major car manufacturers would be very interested in how to make turbo rotaries that effective. He is also selling his car.
Don't get me wrong, I love his work, and don't doubt the results but there has to be a tradeoff somewhere.
-Jedon
(I found a safe place where I can keep it, since moving house.)The trade off is you do loose low end power, around 3k to 4.5k not much happens, it make boost, it goes good but it's range is as stated to match the gear ratio's and the engine redline. When reved to 8400rpm @ 1 bar boost "14.5psi" it accelerates (street trim, 320kph gearing, full exhaust, street tires) quicker than a Ferrari F40 and does the same top speed "rev limit 8800rpm" (My car weighs 1070kg + me 69kg = 1139kg or 2511lb).
My specs are as follows 505BHP (engine power) 8200rpm @ 14.5psi boost at std temp std pressure day.
from 5500rpm up to 90+% of the maximum boost setting is achieved and maximum boost happens at 7600rpm (wich is where my maximum torque happens)
It is horses for courses ! I love the responce and power of my engine, for my driving style and normal rev limit (8400rpm) I have proven acceleration figures....I do not care what boost or spool up I have at 4500rpm as I am never in this range, and when I am coming out of a tight bend comming onto a straight I do not wan't full power or full boost at 5000rpm anyway.
My settings are not THE way to do things, but I do know this that if you wan't full boost at lower revs you will sacrifice power production at higher revs.....It's the old rule. You do not get something for nothing !
Last edited by RICE RACING; 03-22-02 at 06:30 AM.
03-22-02, 07:22 AM
#15
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally posted by Jedon
Well that's about 500 to the wheels, and he doesn't get there until what, 9000+ rpm? I highly respect RICE RACING but I have different goals, I would like boost to start a bit lower so I think I'll go with a a larger housing and a smaller A/R (not too small, perhaps .96) for road racing and AutoX. I'm no expert like I said, those were just general guidelines.
-Jedon
Well that's about 500 to the wheels, and he doesn't get there until what, 9000+ rpm? I highly respect RICE RACING but I have different goals, I would like boost to start a bit lower so I think I'll go with a a larger housing and a smaller A/R (not too small, perhaps .96) for road racing and AutoX. I'm no expert like I said, those were just general guidelines.
-Jedon
riceracing@ozemail.com.au
03-22-02, 07:36 AM
#16
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I have yet to start my new engine but I will be running a TO4B P-trim 0.84 divided housing with a 60-1 compressor. Is this turbo going to be too small for the largish street port that my engine has? This is going to be mainly a street car with the occasional trips to the drag strip. Any input on this guys?
03-23-02, 12:33 PM
#17
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Originally posted by 1FastT2
I have yet to start my new engine but I will be running a TO4B P-trim 0.84 divided housing with a 60-1 compressor. Is this turbo going to be too small for the largish street port that my engine has? This is going to be mainly a street car with the occasional trips to the drag strip. Any input on this guys?
I have yet to start my new engine but I will be running a TO4B P-trim 0.84 divided housing with a 60-1 compressor. Is this turbo going to be too small for the largish street port that my engine has? This is going to be mainly a street car with the occasional trips to the drag strip. Any input on this guys?
03-27-02, 12:46 AM
#18
Lives on the Forum
You guys are getting lost...
In general, the Garrett turbo families are T04B, T04E, and T04S04 (also called TS04 or T04S).
I dunno where the T04R came from, but HKS uses it, but it's not an official Garrett turbo family that I know of.
The sizes are (IN GENERAL) larger as you go up - T04B, T04E, T04S04.&nbps It IS possible that a LARGE T04B can easily outflow a smaller T04E.
You cannot tell at what boost a certain turbo will kick in.  This is usually defined by turbine wheel trim and turbine A/R.  Compressor housing sizes usually dictate potential PEAK power output.
Go read Hugh MacInnes "Turbocharging" and Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost".
-Ted
In general, the Garrett turbo families are T04B, T04E, and T04S04 (also called TS04 or T04S).
I dunno where the T04R came from, but HKS uses it, but it's not an official Garrett turbo family that I know of.
The sizes are (IN GENERAL) larger as you go up - T04B, T04E, T04S04.&nbps It IS possible that a LARGE T04B can easily outflow a smaller T04E.
You cannot tell at what boost a certain turbo will kick in.  This is usually defined by turbine wheel trim and turbine A/R.  Compressor housing sizes usually dictate potential PEAK power output.
Go read Hugh MacInnes "Turbocharging" and Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost".
-Ted
