The oil injectors are vaccum controlled correct? So if they were not hooked to the front side of the turbine like the stock system would they work? Or does the ecu control the oil injectors based on rpm exc, or is it all based on vaccum. Or both. If i left the oil injectors vaccum lines breathing from the atmosphere under the manifold what would happen. If they don't sense vaccum does that mean no oil is injected ? I don't want to premix either. Would this cause increased eng wear on all the seals? Plus be harder to start, no oil to seal? I am running a PFC and a t88 with all the other goodies. I know that haltech doesn't control OMP, so do you all premix? Thanks

 

they are vacuum controlled, if you plug them they inject more oil

mike

 

I think I'm going to disagree here... I chopped up a oil injector from my FD and made a video. I think that you could put a total vacuum on them and they'd inject just the same amount as if they were open to atmosphere. I think capping them is still better than leaving them open to atmosphere because they might cause a small vacuum leak... but I prefer to connect them to a pressure source like an intercooler hose.

I think when they see -boost- pressure, they will inject a bit more oil.

http://www.zeroglabs.com/rx7/howoilmeteringworks.htm

Regards,
Brian

 

If they are connected in front of the turbine they would alway see neg vaccum. If placed after the turbine they would always see postive vaccum. Therefore wouldn't work? So they will still inject oil if left open to the atmoshere, but less than if fitted to a negative vaccum sorce? How much of a difference? The omp regulates the oil injectors how? Mechanical? If j9fd3s is right, more oil never hurt anything! I couldn't get the video to download. Just try to get a better understanding of how this system is regulated.

 

Yeah I am not too sure why Mazda connects them where they do. On the old TII engines, they connected them to the intake manifold, on the FD, they connect to the front of the turbine so they don't see boost.

Who knows what they think... they also gave us the rat's nest!

Brian

 

Wondering if I could hook them up to one of my unused vaccum ports on my UIM. Then they would see boost then, not just neg vaccum. The systems aren't that different from model too model, then why the change? Anyone else have any comments on this?

 

we had one that was smoking at idle (blue oil smoke) and we uncapped (its modded) the mop nozzels and it stopped smoking. are they hooked up differently than a t2? we dont know that, that port sees boost, i should check ive got the upper sitting on the bench

mike

 

So if they see no vaccum, (blocked, pinched line exc) what tells the OMP to supply more oil? I am confused how this system works. On FC( tII) connects to UIM and senses boost. FD connects to turbo inlet and only senses neg vaccum. Are there any web sites that state the amount of oil and control system for the OMP? I looked but had no luck

 

well the omp and the nozzles are independent from each other. the mop output depends on oil pressure and the ecu. the ecu seems to be more rpm than load related. a friend of mine put a voltmeter on the mop on the dyno, so i may be able to get him to give me a chart or something.

i should make this clear, i dont really understand how all the peices fit together yet either

mike

 

THe forum is being completely retarded today... I can't uplod my attachment...

But anyhow, my datalogging with my PowerFC shows that the oil injection amount is primarily controlled by the boost.

Brian

 

So if it is controlled by boost, then how does it work on an FD? The stock setup only reads neg vaccum, it doesn't see boost like an FC (TII) How come when you ask hard questions only two or three people comment, I thought more people would have knowledge on this. Hopefully j9fd3s will get that chart and clear it up.

 

well the one that was dynoed was an na s5 fc. he said it changed with rpms. i checked my t2 upper and they do see boost, so i'm confused

mike

 

the FCs OMP is controlled mechanically, where as the FD is electronic. They need to see vacuum only, if they see boost, they do not inject.

 

Let me see if i get this right:The OMP is ecu controled depending on rpm, injecting more oil based on boost. But they will still inject oil if left open to the atmosphere, just not as much. I know someone that has 500+hp FD and his are left open to the atmosphere, and all his work was done by a rotary specialist shop. Wonder if they know something that we don't? I just thought it was werid that they wouldn't connect the to a neg vaccum sorce if it was that important.

 

I think just to be clear, I'm only going to talk about FD systems in this post.

The pump itself is gear-driven off of the eccentric shaft. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that more RPM -could- very well result in MORE oil even with no voltage change from the ECU. We don't know it for a fact, because for all I know, the electronic metering portion doesn't let anything but a trickle through anyhow... I dunno. But if I had to guess, I'd say that with a constant voltage to the OMP, the increase in engine RPM will turn the pump faster so more oil does end up going in.

We also see in datalogs that under boost conditions, additional voltage is sent to the OMP. This probably opens it up wider so that more oil can get by. This would be very similar to the old 86-88 method where it had a mechanical linkage to the throttle.

Brian

 

I am going to run some test and see what I can find out, get some hard numbers from datalogit and the pfc. Thank guys for your info

 

well the omp "sees" rpm, by the gear being spun, and the oil pressure changes with rpm too

mike

 

any update on this?

Just bringing it back up..

 

I don't really understand the injecters either but if you only want to have vac. on them all the time why not use one of the old vac/pressure chambers that came on the car instead of working on the inlet side of the turbo

 

OK in my experience I see the oil injectors working like this. On my power FC the voltage to the OMP changes directly proportional to the RPM. I would have to assume that more voltage would equal more flow. On my FC the injectors are connected to see vacuum and boost however, the service manual states that when testing an injector that you should only be able to suck air through it and not blow. This represents that they only need vacuum. I think that the boost would hurt the injectors or increase oil flow beyond limits that the engine can take in. So that is why the valve inside closes during boost which allows oil flow to be uninterupted. The FD being more thought out and advanced they connect it infront of the turbines so that they never see boost and remain at a stable flow all the time.

 

I completely forgot about this post: I have been breaking my motor now with the oil injectors open to the atmosphere. So far now problems. I have asked a couple more people that I know over in Japan and it seems like everyone hooks them up differently. So to the vaccumm ports on the bottom of the manifold, in front of turbine or just open atmosphere. I haven't really got around to dataloging of monitoring it yet, still alot of little bugs to work out. I will try to remember to post what I find out, I'll start writting down and recording the results once I can rev my motor after break in is done.