DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

i just picked up a 87 turbo 2 recently. finished sanding, primering, the whole body satin black finish. took out the power steering, a/c compressor, the bolts holding the brackets, a/c components. Dropping in soon RB dual belt alt. pulley, rb turbo down pipe 2.5" , 2.5" cat delete straight mid pipe. Planning to port out my upper/lower intake and TB.



Is it possible with 550 primaries and under 1000 secondaries?
what upgrades can i do to reach my 400 goal?
whats a good turbo that spools really fast oil cooled?

Post some suggestions !!!

peachykeenwight

You might be able to get away with 550 primaries, but you'll probably want to stay in the 1600cc range for the secondaries just to be safe.. you never can have too much headroom with something as integral as the fuel system. You'll also need an FPR and upgraded fuel pump.

You'll need a standalone. E6Ks are becoming more and more affordable these days (if you can find one).

To hit those numbers easily, you'll probably want to get some sort of port.. a decent sized streetport should do you well.

GT35R's are "the turbo" for quick response and 400 horsepower right now. Read the thread about them in the A-Spec group buy section, there's lots of good info there.

If you have the money, patience and a good mechanic (if you're not a good mechanic yourself) it can be done for sure!

Node

iTrader: (1)

id say go w/ at least a 3" exhaust, the 2.5 can do it, but every bit bigger exhaust means faster spoolup and more power on a turbo car. you cant go wrong w/ bigger exhaust on a turbo rotary.

Not saying you can't do it w/ 2.5", it just may make things difficult since you're wanting big horsepower and fast spool

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

" 400 h p "

I hate seeing that as that seems to be the common internet goal these days, I'm not picking on you just using you as an example.
A real street, " beast" as you call it, will have a lot of torque over a broad curve. The only reason rx7s are fast at all is because they are lightweight...

Besides that fact have you ever driven a lightweight car with that much power? You would be surprised at how fast you can put yourself into a wall, rearend someone on the street, ending up in jail etc...

It takes a lot of money to setup the car properly from bumper to bumper. You can't just build the powerplant, without building the suspension, chassis, tires, brakes, etc....
Ask the guys who have been around the block a few times, its going to cost you several times the value of the car.

My advice to build a friendly fast street car; start with 10k in the bank.

Node

iTrader: (1)

$10k.....**** thats nothing if you're picky. but seeing by the satin black paintjob. I'd say $10k would cut it if you do the labor yourself.

DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

i do all my own work. cause i trust my own work! rx-7 motors are really easy to work same as body wise. I just started to get into rx-7 recently. before this i use to build from ground up fox body mustang over 350 hp and it feels real good hauling *** on full throttle!!! But of course, building the drivability to accomadate that hp isnt the problem. So far i got top front and rear sway bars coming in already. poly urethane bushing all the way around, but still undecided on suspension. either coilover or just adj. shocks and lowering springs. will be soon sitting on 18" bbs rx with 40 series tires ZR rated. Also planning on solid mm and tq engine brace. So far all the parts im picking up is all through bargaining !!!

FPR?
So the 420hp is not possible on a stock s4 t2 block ?
So i would have to take it apart and port it myself.
Could i use the same seals while taking apart or would it need replacing of all the seals after i port it and slap it back together?

DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

one more thing, i seen people put FD intake manifold and tb on the FC. does anyone have this thread ??

p4nc7

iTrader: (1)

FPR=fuel pressure regulator. You'd need a larger turbo than what would REALLY be req'd if you didn't port it.

Node

iTrader: (1)

420hp is possible on stock port, don't worry about the port.
Search for dynos from J-Rat. I believe they're in the 2nd gen dyno/time slip forum. He made great power w/ a precision PT61 Turbo on a stock block. Then got it rebuilt/ported and did 490rwhp
J-Rat uses alky injection to keep his motor happy w/ high boost and watered down 91 octane pumpgas

If you do choose to rebuild and port, you can use the same hard seals if theyre within spec/clearance, but its always nice to get new stuff. Springs not sealing as well as they did new, etc. I wouldn't reuse any of the soft seals though.

What I was saying is that 2.5" exhaust may be a holdup.

And I've read that swaybars should be done last as a way to tune your suspension setup.
-Ben Martin

DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

sounds good. whats with the garett gt35/40 i heard so much bout it? running 400hp would it be better oil cooled or water cooled?

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Alot of times, the people that can AFFORD that kind of streetable HP (like me for example), also have the discipline and experience not to do some of the things you mention. Driving a 490 horse FC on the street for me is more of a statement saying that I CAN do it, besides what nay-sayers like you have to say about it.

And thats ALSO with 395 ft pounds of torque at around 5k, which isnt **** for a rotary that spins to 9K.

You would be well advised to stop pre-judging people based on what your limited scope of experience tells you is true.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I made 434 Wheel horsepower with a T-61, not a PT-61. This was on a stock S4 motor and a VERY good intercooler setup.

ikari899

i am very close behind Jrat, in fact im coming for that stock port record .

expect to spend 3000 dollars on mechanical stuff
turbo
manifold
custom DP
clutch
flywheel
oil lines
intercooler
injectors
fuel pump
fuel pressure regulator

then you will be droping another 2000 dollars on EMS, aux injection, wideband
just a side note you WILL want some sort of aux injection, weather it be h20, meth, alch is your personal choice, but i will be running meth because i think it is the best.

im running a t67 which is rated at 75 lb/min as compared to jrats t61 which is rated at 65lb/min.
btw go with a garrett they make the bestest turbos , in my opinion.

since you asked about turbos go with the t61 if you are stopping at 400 hp because from driving jrats car and looking at my data logs his spools up quicker.

so if you take your time finding the right parts for the right prices you can make over 400 hp with about 5000 dollars. and it will be set up correctly. just dont spend money where its not needed, like on those cool looking gauges you always wanted . it adds up.

oh and the import thing to remember is that it is not as complicated as some would like you to believe when it comes down to it i just added a bigger turbo and an ecu. its just all those supporting mods that make it seem complicated.

FC3S.USD

iTrader: (2)

I would suggest problably enjoying car with the stock turbo and 720 cc secondaries and a ems ( e6k as recommended above works very well and price shoudl be good ).

Then save up and do the 400 hp setup correctly the first time.

Im not saying 13bs are no reliable at that power, but I Would say a bit more delicate to chewing gum setups to other engines .

So a well thought out setup is needed and is in the 5-8k I would think. ( more or less dependign finding good prices on parts etc .)

Node

iTrader: (1)

I think ErnieT has a "record" amount of hp for stock port. But thats a FD w/ REW motor. Was a madza reman. Not sure on the turbo, but I think mightve been t78. Not positive at all. ****, not even positive it was ernieT, but I think thats right.
Now he has a 600+rwhp monster

not saying its a real record at all, but he just made a shitton of power on a stock port motor.

FDs are a little better motor than BT though from the get go.

RETed

How much over 350?

A 351hp Mustang isn't hard to build.
Basic bolt-on's within $1,000 should hit that number.

Building a 500+hp Mustang is a whole nother ball game.

Piston engine builders are a dime a dozen, unless we're talking about cutting-edge techniques.

Hell, centrifugal superchargers in kit form now make building big power Mustangs pretty trivial, since things are simply "bolt on".
All you need is the money to pay for the complete kit and take off a weekend to complete the project.

That's the problem.
Building a 400hp 13BT is not trivial.



-Ted

sao1

Amen to that!

ikari899

HA i really dont know, really doesnt matter i just want a fast car

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

That's what i WISH i was able to do with my TII. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy the whole package ready to install all at once.?.?

Instead I'm building piece by piece, saving money and then buying each piece, it's hard to find out what to buy and what is needed to run which turbo and so on.

I wish I was rich......everything would be new and loaded with speed....

RETed

That's the problem.
There is not complete kit that I know of.

If you ask a shop to put together a kit, we're talking SERIOUS cash here.
Don't be surprised you get quotes $10k+!
About half of that is labor...


-Ted

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

$10 K for a 400 Horse 13bt?!?! Have you been freebasing again?

cozmo kraemer

I would like to know how much it cost you to get the point of where your engine is. I am guessing it is a lot more than $10K...because it has taken more than one attempt. Also, what prices do you get parts at? With all the parts I have put together and put into my engine I am a little over $10K and I may have been able to save $1K, but not much more than that. You have MANY systems in the engine to think about, if you are starting with a completely stock car it is going to take some coin...

Engine build........$3500
Turbo system......$3000 + $800 in necessary parts to get it running (BOV, Boost control, IC piping)
Intercooler...........$500 (used)
Clutch setup.........$500
Fuel system..........$800
Exhaust................$800
ECU......................$1000
Wideband.............$300
Tuning/dyno..........$300
__________________
Total.....................$11,500

(options)
W/A Injection........$400
ignition box...........$350
coils.......................$100
heatshielding.........$150
gauges...................$200
__________________
Total w/options.......$12,700

That is a conservative estimate WITHOUT labor, and it also doesn't include all the little things that nickel and dime you to death with this car. I "thought" I could afford it when I started and even though it will turn out that I could afford it, I never wanted to sink this much money into a car.

All of this before ever even starting to build the suspension and braking components and also assuming all of the chasis is in PERFECT shape. I would NEVER drive a car with that much power with tired old bushings and suspension. That is just silly.

So perhaps it can be done cheaply, but it certainly won't hold together very long especially on roadrace type tracks and lapping sessions. I guess it depends on what you want out of it, but a reliably running 400whp is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination...well unless you are one of my clients and this type of money is what they spend on one of 10 fountains in their landscaping...

Oh, and I am not taking a shot at you, J-Rat, I am just asking if you added up everything it took to get you to the 400whp barrier, what would it come out to?

RETed

Nope!
Go ask A-spec how much they would charge to stuff their GT35R (close to $5k for just the kit?) to be installed on your FC?
Don't forget the EMS install and tune!
We're talking turn-key install - you drive the car in...they work on it...you drive the car out.


-Ted

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

This man is right. My car is @ A-spec now for a 500R kit + lots more! This **** costs money kiddies. If you can't pay to play then please stay away.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Here is what it cost me to make 434 @ the wheels...

Nope, used a 1200 dollar used stock motor
[quote]
Turbo system......$3000 + $800 in necessary parts to get it running (BOV, Boost control, IC piping)[/quote
Nope, used a BNR turbo.. 800 for turbo, and about 300 for a used IC system.
Nah.. $350 for a used ACT clutch that is still holding down my power levels today, and MAYBE 300 for fuel...

Exhaust is good, thats about what I paid. Used E6Ks are 650, which is EXACTLY what I paid.

I dont pay for tuning, Trevor does it, and my wideband was $350.


Thats why you DO IT YOURSELF.. If you are paying someone labor, then you are wasting your money.

Yep, and it isnt as expensive is people think it is. It also lasted over 3 years at that HP level before a bad vacuum line caused the wastegate not to open.

Point is, Ted was talking TURNKEY.. I wasnt aware of that. If you have other people do your work, you will PAY.. Pure and simple.

You would probably do well to listen to people that are MAKING that kind of horsepower, instead of those that WISH they were...

Rat