J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Ted,

I thought you were talking about the motor only and just the build... Sorry for the confusion..

Rat

ikari899

yeah internet racers! every one loves those.

and having some one build a 400 hp car for you would cost so much money...

what it really comes down to is how many friends you have . like take Jrat for example, he does not own a single metal fabrication tool and he some how got a Vmount, downpipe, catch can, fan shroud, and dumptube for free, but + material of course.

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

First off, most people don't have their own shops, or the oh so popular "friend at X shop that will do all my work for free". Which, by the way, I would take as a huge insult if I owned a shop and were friends with someone who wanted me to work on their car for free when there are other customers waiting to pay me to work on their cars. Same thing goes for the $200 manifold boy, there is alot of work and time involved in making a manifold, $200 for a custom manifold is like a slap in the face to the builder, especially when they could be cranking them out to customers who will pay what they really cost. Also, alot of people don't have the extra space needed to work on their cars or they have restrictions in their community prhobiting them from working on cars in their driveway.(there are a few on this board that have that issue) Furthermore, some may not have all the tools needed to do the job or a friend that they can just borrow all the tools from either. They probably don't know how to do all the work either. And finally, alot of people just plain don't have the time needed to take on such projects.

I think its pretty safe to say that at least 80%+ of the owners of these cars fall into at least one of these categories. However, if every rx7 owner had everything needed to do all their own work I bet they all would. I know I would, but unfortunatley I am far to involved in my career to devote the time needed to do all my own work. Realistically the vast majority of car enthusiasts have some of the same issues mentioned above. So, reality says that those that don't have everything needed to get the job done or get everything handed to them for free will have to pay for it. Just telling everyone to "DO IT YOURSELF" just kinda makes you look like an ******* to the people that fall into the above mentioned issues.

vipers

iTrader: (8)

my engine build is still rising... and im right at the $13k mark right now...

i skimmed through this thread, but mainly ignored alot of the negative....

if you do alot of research, the only actual "labor" charges you should get would be the labor for porting and assembling the block (which i wouldnt recommend doing yourself if your a first-timer, especially if your going for 400+rwhp).. and tuning the motor

everything else can be done at home in a garage w/ basic hand tools...and you can peice together everything yourself.. no need to buy super expensive kits... just pay attention and document what other poeple are using that have made the power you want... sometimes mixing and matching works better then kits, and saves you money (sometimes)

i think if i hadnt gone for the bling factor, i could have done my build for maybe $8-10k.. dont rush into purchasing items either... be smart and wait for deals to arrise... as j-rat said, you can pick up used EMS's for 1/2 to 3/4 the cost of new ones, and half the time, the wiring harness is already made for you....

as for the "price sheet" listed earlier..... for people on a budget, there are quite a few of those things that you can get far cheaper...

exhaust-- $300 shipped (full 3" stainless ssauto single exhaust.. great quality)
clutch-- $150 xtd 6-puck (proven to handle 400+rwhp on a fc by my engine builder)
ignition box and coils..-- $0 (fc ignition and coils can handle around 500rwhp w/ no trouble)
turbo system-- $2300 (mp t70 turbo, ss fd manifold, hks 50mm wastegate, 2 hks ssqv bovs, apexi avc-r boost controller, and full 3" intercooler kit)

so according to your calculations for turbo setup, intercooler, exhaust, clutch, ignition box, and coils.. $5250

realistically for a person on a budget.. that cost should be $2750.. which is half the cost... and i can give links to every item i priced.... (not trying to argue w/ you, just trying to show that there are cheaper ways to do thing w/out sacrifing reliability)

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

In my world, doing the work is 75% of the fun! If that makes me an *******, then so be it, but I would rather say I built it myself.

As far as some parts of the car, yes I have been incredibly lucky to have some very talented friends who can do some of the things I cant (fabrication, tuning), but I did most of the work, and I am proud of that.

Guess I am an *******....

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

This is what I am SAYING!!

ikari899

chill dude we are all friends here. just because your point of view does not line up with his doesnt mean you need to get all mad.

oh btw ryan and i (the two people that do/did the custom stuff of Jrats car) dont work at a shop. we just happen to have access to the correct tools one way or another. in fact for the most part we ONLY do work for friends. **** i was ready to make Jrat a exhaust manifold for free, does that make me a bad person?

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

No, that makes you a sexy mexican!

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

damn! can I be your friend

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Simply not true Ted,not calling you out, or saying your lying, just misinformed. FC kits start at $2199, heck the GT3574 which is performing very well is $2399. Even if we used the 35R T4 kit mentioned we at $3299 that's about 1.7k off what was stated. The manifold is proving to be a very good performer as well.

As for the saving money to do your own work, It is a good way to go, the flip side of it is, if you could only see some of the stuff that shows up here that people try and do improperly only to try and save a few bucks.

ikari899

oh so true... some of the stuff i find done to my car makes me cringe... its a good thing i have replaced most of it.

RETed

Hey, I apologize for the prices being that off.
I vaguely remember that your initial kit prices were in the $4xxx range when the first came out?
I swear it was closer to $5k?

Are those $2k kits using a custom manifold or the XS-Power ones?
The pricing doesn't make any sense, cause the turbo is minimum $1k + at least another $1k for a custom tubular manifold...

Do you have a more expensive kit?


-Ted

DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

UPDATE: thanks for the feedback guys! Sorry if i have not been replying been busy in the lab. So far she is coming together very well. I finished the complete interior all black with new carpet missing misc. plastic piece s etc. The outside looks very cherry so far. I added a S5 tailights, rear bumper, side mirrors, & a aluminum hood from a convertible( sleeper style cant tell its a turbo beside the oversize intercooler) front bumper & modling minus the side skirts. The undercarriage had a complete scrub including the fenderwell and has been bedline black coated for rust protection. I ripped out the complete drivetrain and rear end and gave each peices a good cleaning and fresh coat of high temp cermaic paint. Also had all the suspension bushing pressed out and gave it a fresh polyeurethane bushing from energy suspension. suspension include rb rear springs eibach front springs tokico adj. all the way around.Also included cusco front and rear sway bars. All the brake caliper been cleaned painted fresh, stainless steel brake lines, cross drilled & slotted rotors all the way around. I ripped the ABS system out and make it to a non abs brake system, removed all the speed sensor rings & sensors and replaced the front brakes with n/a brake lines & brake master cylinder. Engine bay recieved a fresh coat of bedliner black, engine block been cleaned , kept it stock ports but ported my TB & manifold. I decided to block off the omp and run on 2 cycle instead. I took your guys advice and just aiming 300-350 range. So far the whole drivertrain is installed with new motor mounts, stage 3 exeddy clutch, resurface flywheel, pilot bearing, needle bearing & fresh fluid. Thinking of putting a lightweight flywheel later on. As turbo wise i got me one of the ss chrome aftermarket turbo manifold with 50mm wastegate. Exhaust wise im still looking for a 3 inch downpipe but no sucess =(...........
all emission are blocked off running 720 secondaries. I added a FPR stainless steel braided lines & a 255lph fuel pump out back. Also a alum koyo radiator & a huge front mount intercooler. I still havent found the right intercooler pipes yet prefer a 3 inch though. So the only thing im missing left is a ECU system, pipes, turbo timer, boost controller,short shifter, & some nice shiny wheels! So far im in the hole about $4500. not to bad so i need some other recommendation from you guys whats a good budget ecu to use? whatelse am im missing etc.

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

i dunno things get expensive real quick. do lots of research before you buy anything.
i was planning on spending about 5k on my s5tii trying to get 500hp boy was i off. spent 5600 on the car and about 7k on the goodies.
900ish for hbp port
600 rebuild parts
4300 500r turbo kit wiht all the extra goodies
650 ic setup
200 fuel setup (alread had the injectors and pump, just went to a new fpr and modded the rails so i dont have the pd or stock fpr)
180 for a used avcr
hell my car doesnt even start yet
i still have my exhaust and meth setup to figure out
also i forgot to budget in some dyno time. im doing most of my tuning but when steve kan comes to stl im gunna let him have a wack at it and see what can be done.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

he should def do 3" exhaust. with stock ports on an s4 motor i managed just under 430 rwhp on 93 octane with no ai until the water housing rusted out (apparently mazmart let the engine sit too long without proper fluids).

this was done on a gt4082 which is actually smaller than the gt35r. The gt35r is a great turbo. I'm using a pt61 (same compressor, non ball bearing) and am very happy with it.

nyt

iTrader: (1)

I'd recommend larger injectors. 1000cc/1680cc makes a good combination and gives you lots of headroom.
What kind of turbo are you planning to use? You can always use a hybrid unit and get a 60mm compressor in it. It should be able to exceed your goals pretty easily. If you do this you can just pickup the racingbeat 3" turbo exhaust and it will bolt right up.

good ecu: haltech or wolf should be pretty affordable if you find a used unit.

Longshoe

iTrader: (2)

What kind of setup did you have/pics? Did you keep a/c / p/s? I am planning for the very same thing (400hp on a stock port s4) but I cant decide on an I/C. I was thinking of going with a water/air barrel type but im not reading very good things about that setup regarding heatsoak. Not to mention for the price I can easily get a brand new greddy i/c.

Longshoe

iTrader: (2)

^Disregard that, I didnt know this thread was a year old..

DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

thread still going lol i dont have a/c or p/s at all all removed.

DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

updated added a flex-a-lite 180 xtreme fan with thermostat switch, full aeromotive fuel plumbing braided lines through out, 255 lph pump in rear aeromotive 100 micron fuel filter, 3 inch v-band downpipe welded straight into the y-pipe, new thermostat, rat nest removed 60/1.15 hotside undivided, 50mm tial bov, 50mm wastegate,.....she is almost done almost about a year soon, only thing missing now is injectors planning to run 4x 720cc low imp. with the r-tek 1.8v pocketlogger. I will post complete pictures of this car as soon it is complete. pictures from ground up!!! now i just need a great tuner or a good map setup for the r-tek1.8v. Any other info is appreciated.

splitzo

I had planned on 2.5" but everyone is talking about a 3" exhaust. Now I don't want something REAL loud and after what Node said "id say go w/ at least a 3" exhaust, the 2.5 can do it, but every bit bigger exhaust means faster spoolup and more power on a turbo car. you cant go wrong w/ bigger exhaust on a turbo rotary." it almost makes me think thats what I need to do. So is there a 3" exhaust you guys would recommend thats not REAL loud and has a nice tone to it? I was lookin into an RB kit. Thanks..

dregg100

iTrader: (34)

you need a full standalone if you plan on running an aftermarket turbo. 720s are not going to cut it as far as fuel. all i can say is be very carefull!

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

Definitely RB. No question about it. I have it and, personally, it's the best I've ever heard.

DrBlazeMdoc

iTrader: (4)

4x 67 lbs injectors wont handle it? usinga wideband o2s and good tuning im sure i can turn out at least 375-400 on pump gas with 4x 720cc. insurance wise hmm i should add 1000cc secondaries 2 be on the safe side =X

RETed

4 x 720's are only good for a little over 300 at the wheels...maybe 350.
They are not going to support 400 at the wheels unless you're running ungodly fuel rail pressures.


-Ted