Water to Air intercooler for street/drift use
08-21-08, 09:48 PM
#27
I have been using water to air for several years on my lotus esprit,
it came stock with it 20 yrs old design with 18 pounds of boost,
also it sits right on top of the engine so its easy to heatsoak,
100* texas weather, stop and go with ac on, the fans would allways run
under 40mph, my intake temps never went up more than few degrees from
ambient,
plus it has lots of room for upgrade, it doesent eaven have a tank (sucks to bleed the air out) also not enough air flow in the mid engine bay,
my experiance works much better than air to air even in high boost,
only bad thing it is havier
it came stock with it 20 yrs old design with 18 pounds of boost,
also it sits right on top of the engine so its easy to heatsoak,
100* texas weather, stop and go with ac on, the fans would allways run
under 40mph, my intake temps never went up more than few degrees from
ambient,
plus it has lots of room for upgrade, it doesent eaven have a tank (sucks to bleed the air out) also not enough air flow in the mid engine bay,
my experiance works much better than air to air even in high boost,
only bad thing it is havier
09-15-08, 07:46 PM
#28
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well, I was out tuning as usual today, and the results were far from satisfying 
(degrees are in F)
about 80 degree ambient temps today
about 101-109 IAT while cruising
5psi from about 2.5k - 5k for a total of about 3-6 seconds = 131 - 139 F
12psi from about 3.5k - 5.5k for a total of about 3-4 seconds = 161 F
...even put ice in the cool can but it basically made no difference and turned into a small bucket of water after about 15 mins or less.
I talked to my brother yesterday and he said he remembered the temps being at 45C during cruising and got up to around 52 - 59 while boosting at around 15psi.
I think the change to the .81 on-center turbine housing was a really bad idea.........from a 1.15 (or so) that was on it before. That was the only real change done to the whole setup, aside from larger porting, etc.
(degrees are in F)
about 80 degree ambient temps today
about 101-109 IAT while cruising
5psi from about 2.5k - 5k for a total of about 3-6 seconds = 131 - 139 F
12psi from about 3.5k - 5.5k for a total of about 3-4 seconds = 161 F
...even put ice in the cool can but it basically made no difference and turned into a small bucket of water after about 15 mins or less.
I talked to my brother yesterday and he said he remembered the temps being at 45C during cruising and got up to around 52 - 59 while boosting at around 15psi.
I think the change to the .81 on-center turbine housing was a really bad idea.........from a 1.15 (or so) that was on it before. That was the only real change done to the whole setup, aside from larger porting, etc.
09-15-08, 10:03 PM
#30
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There's actually a "sectioned off" area for the filter. Basically involves sheetmetal, and a large hole (about 6" x 6") was cut out of part of the side "shroud" that helps hold the radiator. Kind of hard to explain, but it pulls in air from the air dam area.
09-17-08, 06:12 PM
#33
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08-27-09, 09:55 AM
#35
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Just wanted to quickly update:
An air/air intercooler was added and the turbine housing was switched out with a .96 undivided tang housing and temps hold around ambient the whole time, whether cruising or boosting.
An air/air intercooler was added and the turbine housing was switched out with a .96 undivided tang housing and temps hold around ambient the whole time, whether cruising or boosting.
08-27-09, 11:19 AM
#36
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Lots of vehicles came with air/water intercooler systems factory. Most of them supercharged. Ford Lightning, Mustang svt cobra, New vette ZR1's. It would help you a lot for design theory to see what those systems had for heat exchangers. You'll notice that they are like small radiators.
Just some food for thought.
Just some food for thought.
08-27-09, 11:43 AM
#37
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I have a really thick/big heat exchanger and no tank and my system works great....it actually drops IAT's when I am at a stoplight because it keeps circulating. I think a big Heat exchanger and big water pump with thick hoses is key. I have a 500gph water pump and 3/4" hoses to and from the heat exchanger. The exchanger is 27" wide X 7" tall X 2" thick...almost like an intercooler and it actually has both inlets and exits on one side so the water runs on 3.5" of core all the way to one side on the top and then comes back all the way on the bottom 3.5" core which really removes the heat. My intercooler is 4.5" thick X 12" tall and I laid it on its side. No ice needed...no tank...no mess...and cooler IAT's. Oh and the car has in the range of 520whp so the system is getting used.
Chris
Chris
08-28-09, 05:55 PM
#40
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Good idea, but I think they only offer a few standard cores nowadays.
08-28-09, 07:24 PM
#41
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I would look here...their stuff works and they have several air/water specific cores and the necessary accessories.
www.frozenboost.com
I know its cheap...but I've had a good experience with them in the past.
Chris
www.frozenboost.com
I know its cheap...but I've had a good experience with them in the past.
Chris
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08-28-09, 07:34 PM
#42
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I would look here...their stuff works and they have several air/water specific cores and the necessary accessories.
www.frozenboost.com
I know its cheap...but I've had a good experience with them in the past.
Chris
www.frozenboost.com
I know its cheap...but I've had a good experience with them in the past.
Chris
08-29-09, 10:13 PM
#43
In a drift car you will have to be careful where you put the liquid to air heat exchanger core as you don't want to **** everyone off watering down the course with coolant. Not to mention it would take out your IC system.
A thin core as tall and wide as possible may work right on the front of the radiator, though you have heat soak issues and block airflow to the radiator. An immensely powerful fan (like stock when clutch is locked) would solve these issues!
Brake duct location (like FD oil coolers) is probably out due to the likely hood you will tap or get tapped on your corners.
Horizontal down low in front of radiator with big pusher fan would be good for size available but again probably out due to ease of damaging it when running over your own or someones bumpers and front end collisions.
In a V mount location with the radiator would work and look cool, but limits both core sizes.
Well, I guess it doesn't even have to be in the front of the car (a benefit of the system). Roof scoop in sunroof to ducts down the B pillars to the core in the hatch with a duct out the car somewhere (who needs a license plate?). You could run a huge core and keep it safe
On the US D1GP cars I saw that they are now building tubular space frame structures behind the front and rear bumper fascias.
Seems like that would transfer all the force of impact to the unibody and tweak it unless you got tricky in how you mount it with a weak sacrificial flanges.
It also messes up whoever you hit much worse. Lots more steering linkage issues after impacts.
I wonder if they will find they have to regulate this in the future...
A thin core as tall and wide as possible may work right on the front of the radiator, though you have heat soak issues and block airflow to the radiator. An immensely powerful fan (like stock when clutch is locked) would solve these issues!
Brake duct location (like FD oil coolers) is probably out due to the likely hood you will tap or get tapped on your corners.
Horizontal down low in front of radiator with big pusher fan would be good for size available but again probably out due to ease of damaging it when running over your own or someones bumpers and front end collisions.
In a V mount location with the radiator would work and look cool, but limits both core sizes.
Well, I guess it doesn't even have to be in the front of the car (a benefit of the system). Roof scoop in sunroof to ducts down the B pillars to the core in the hatch with a duct out the car somewhere (who needs a license plate?). You could run a huge core and keep it safe
On the US D1GP cars I saw that they are now building tubular space frame structures behind the front and rear bumper fascias.
Seems like that would transfer all the force of impact to the unibody and tweak it unless you got tricky in how you mount it with a weak sacrificial flanges.
It also messes up whoever you hit much worse. Lots more steering linkage issues after impacts.
I wonder if they will find they have to regulate this in the future...
09-08-09, 08:39 AM
#47
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Chris
09-08-09, 08:42 AM
#48
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Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
Chris
09-08-09, 12:29 PM
#49
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That is probably a great choice. The Bosch pump (360gph) they sell is designed specifically for water to air intercooler (in OEM cars) and it will last very long running all the time. I went with the cheaper one (500gph) because I wanted to test out the system first since I wasn't sure it would work, I will likely upgrade to the Bosch one when the one I have gives out. It flows a little less but its meat for continuous operation.
Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
Chris
Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
Chris
So, I guess I'll play with that for now.
Do you have any pictures of how you mounted yours? Does the bottom suck, and the side push?
09-08-09, 01:09 PM
#50
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The thread that goes into the center of the pump is the one that sucks and the one sticking out the side is the one that pushes. I actually mounted it on its side so the suction one is pointing sideways and the pushing one is pointing up. I don't have any pics right now but I will see if I can get some and post them. Just make sure and place the pump post heat exchanger, no reason to shorten its life by making it pump warm/hot water as opposed to cool water.
Chris