BUSTN

Guys, I am shocked that at most sites I find a 13b turbo manifold cost $1000. Is this the normal price for a manifold? I think Im going to be SOL due to wanting a custom t6 mani with dual wg's.Rant over!

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

you gotta pay to play...

or make your own

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

^ Holy ****! You're the King of pictures like these lol. Where on earth do you find these horrendous pictures/builds...?

BUSTN

WOW!! Thats exactly what I was looking for, you must be pyschic!!

turboR1

If you saw how much work is involved you would think 1,000 is really cheap.. I can assure you if you made one yourself you wouldnt do it again for 1,000. unless of course your setup with a gig that would duplicate the exact manifold even then it would take all day to make one. if you had tons of room it would be easier but T6 with twin wg is tight and not easy lol. dont forget that manifold design itself is important and no room compromises that.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

What he said. I just finished a custom manifold a couple weeks ago and though it didn't take quite the time I thought it would it still made it obvious that $1000-1200 is reasonable for a proven, guaranteed manifold like some of the better vendors offer.

fritts

iTrader: (5)

Mild steel flanges and weld el's are cheap. If you have the equipment and skill you can knock a manifold out in a weekend. I have about 200 in mine, may not have a brand/shop name on it but I pushing plenty of horsepower out of it. Sweat equity is about the only way you can obtain one for cheaper, labor costs money and that's what your paying for.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

I too thought they were over-priced until I tried building one myself. I spent a few hundred dollars on materials, flanged and a $500 Lincoln Mig.

30 hours of labor later, I gave up and had A-Spec build me a custom T6 manifold.

Read,

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/those-who-build-manifolds-living-%2A%2Apics%2A%2A-703789/

and,

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/my-new-turbo-manifold%3B-thanks-spec-%2A%2Apics%2A%2A-793593/

killahrx7

personally i think $1000 is over priced, it will take a day to one custom made for whatever turbo we're gonna use on the engine. $500 would be more like it. just my 2 cents

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

I spent $850 just on materials for mine. $1000 is not out of line for a quality manifold by any means.

phunny

Ouch

ziig

iTrader: (1)

hmmm i dunno call me cheap
I bought some elbow butt end welds which happen to be schedule 40 (very thick) cost me 60 bucks...I got a T4 divided flange for 15 made for me by a local fab shop with a CNC plasma, and RB engine flange for 20 bucks
made it myself with friends mig....It looks ok ( except my welds) and I should think wil work just fine......not to mention it wont break or rust out for years to come

arghx

iTrader: (3)

$1000 isn't ****. Ever priced any kind of turbo setup for a V6 or a V8? two cylinder banks drastically increases the cost and complexity. $1000 is cheap for a good manifold.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Just one of those things you really have to spend money on, on these cars. Weigh out the costs and the benefits of a nice tubular equal length manifold with ideal wastegate plumbing vs. a proven cast iron manifold (HKS/GReady?) before you spend the money though. In your particular case it may be a better decision to loose some boost response with a log manifold and spend the money elsewhere.

DelSlow

iTrader: (2)

Sounds to me like you have never made one then. I easily spent $500 on 321 SS tubing and a weeks worth of work getting the design tweaked to where I wanted it. It was only $500 because I made my own 304 SS engine/turbo/wastegate flanges too...

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

LOL my manifold came from an off-the-shelf workshop operation in Australia. It cost me $350AUD (under $300USD) including shipping and if you buy from there you'll get it less 10% due to no gst but have to pay a lot more in shipping.

1000USD easily paid for

mandrel bent thick wall steampipe turbo manifold
mandrel bent mild steel 3" system from the turbo back
my stainless intercooler pipes
my stainless pod pipe to connect the turbo front to inside the air damn


When I go to a T3/T4/T6 turbo I already have a quote for $750AUD which is about $630USD for another steam pipe turbo manifold and a 3" dump pipe to join to my existing exhaust.

$1000 is a joke

My fabricator is very good at TIG welding and other things and he always does a top notch job. He personally doesn't like using 304 grade staino that the performance crowd seem to love. Basically he says its too hard a metal and will not last the test of time like mild steel will (trading a little bit of surface rust for a piece that won't crack after a few hundred heat cycles)cracking through

Islander

iTrader: (6)

Its all about "time". How much patience you have is the key. I've been looking for a T6 manifold for months. I talked to A-spec, turblown, etc etc. Quality is key and craftsmanship is top notch. But i got a manifold made for $350.

Find a local welder, buy some pipe, cut to length and take to welder to finish the welds. I know you guys are gonna say its not that easy, but really it is. I think its just the reality of availability that gets us, why wait when you can have it now.

Everything takes practice! Viking War Hammer, from the work you have done in the past to your car im sure you are one of the guys who could pull off making your own manifold, i bet it just came down to time and patience. Practice makes perfect..

My .02

zaridar

iTrader: (3)

You know one of the primary reasons for using a material such as stainless is not for the looks or weight savings. It can be made with alot thinner wall which, along with the properties of the material dont conduct heat as well as thicker walled mild steel. Regular steel conducts heat alot better, making it a less desirable choice for manifold material. Just the thickness alone makes it conduct heat better also due to the increases surface area of the outside of the pipe. you want all the heat inside the mani and not soaking out into the engine bay. Higher under hood temps = less power. also less heat into the turbine housing= less responsive turbo and ultimately less power since turbos get about 80 percent of their energy from heat and about 20 percent from pressure from exhaust. This along with proper flow characteristics and routing to the Wastegate make it very difficult to make a high quality, high performance mani for cheap

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

When I have the dough for a T04S (60-1) with a P-trim turbine in 1.0A/R or similar (maybe T04R/Z in 1.0A/R or even GT35R in 1.06) and I spring my gate for 20+psi I will be very keen to prove you crowd wrong Its been done before. I actually can't believe you think something as insignificant such as the material the manifold is made from will make 1/10th of fuckall difference to the RPM your turbo finds boost in each gear, or the number of mS it takes your boost response to follow your throttle input.

You guys are talking about not wasting heat but you have manifolds 15 feet long!

fritts

iTrader: (5)

I don't believe your going to see that much difference in spool or efficiency based off the material the manifold is made from. I also have a very difficult time believing that temperature is an 80% driver in rotational speed. The main driver from most sites list back pressure as the main driver of rotation. Look also at the temperature difference in egt between before and after turbine housing you see what 200 deg worth of energy. Where did you find those numbers? Use of ceramic coatings as well as wrapping a mild steel manifold will help if you in those areas as well. Stainless is also not a good material to use on flanges as its expansion is going to be greater than that of the block or the cast turbine housing your attaching it to. Many piston engine guess have seen broken exhaust studs because of these expansions, not sure many have seen this on a rotary though. Design though can also influence this as well. I still believe the main driver is the pretty factor and possibly weight for the stainless not conductivity. Again for most people except those going for every single available horsepower mild steel is just fine. Finally design of manifold flow will have a much larger affect on the performance of a manifold than material will, my opinion.

zaridar

iTrader: (3)

I've been doing my research. Ive read 6 books now front to back 5 on Turbocharging.
Quote "Street Rotary" P. 146 "...the relatively minor effect of increased exhaust backpressure..." P.132 "The rotary engine is a good candidate for turbocharging. This is due primarily to the extremely hot exhaust stream from the engine..."

"Turbocharging Performance Handbook" P. 223 "Since 80 percent of the energy to drive a turbocharger's turbine comes from exhaust heat energy (20 percent comes from exhaust pressure), anything that can stop heat "leakage" between the exhaust ports and the turbine wheel will reduce enginecompartment temperatures and increase the power of the turbine to spool the compressorquickly for rapid engine acceleration and maximum power." P. 224 "Counterintuitively, exhaust plumbing with thicker walls -such as thick castings- has better thermal transfer capability than thinner stainless-steel tubing, which, by the way, also happens to have relatively low thermal conductivity, which is always a good thing unless you want to sink heat. Thicker metal transfers heat faster, and the larger outside diameter of thicker plumbing has more surface area in contact with air, giving it greater ability to radiate heat.


"Turbo Real World High-Performance Turbocharger Systems" P. 97 "...you'll want to be sure you do not use mild steel tubing. As a minimum material spec, you'll want to use 304 stainless..."


I have also read "Street Turbocharging", "Turbochargers", and "Maximum Boost"


If stainless is used and expansion is a big concern you can also use slip-fit joints to allow for that. On a rotary you can use slotted holes or seperated primaries off of the block.

Thats where im getting my info sir!

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

pwnd

fritts

iTrader: (5)

I have been owned. Now show me some real results showing me the difference in horsepower and spool....

How about this lets get some egt readings from a stainless and mild steel manifold. Should see higher temperatures in an SS right?

Still don't see it making much of a difference though, at least one you'll notice.

SENZA PARI

exhaust ports are two inches in dia. 2" pipe has an OD of 2.38." this in sch40 has an ID of 2.07" which is perfect. design a manifold using this material and you'll be set. the thicker walls (vs sch10) retain the heat (OD remains constant between the two). use .5" flanges. tig weld, purging the pipe with argon for 100% penetration. use long radius bends over short for both flow and cost. go with sch10 pipe/fittings to save as well.
if anyone wants or needs a manifold designed or built, let me know. any turbo, any wastegate, any application. you name it.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Lucky bastard, i searched all my distributors for some half inch's ss drops but nobody had anything that was reasonable. I bought waterjet cut flanges from some webstite out west for like $50, i couldnt buy the material for that.