TomaSoft

I plan to install a Turbo on my Race Car for racing season 2010.

I run 4 hour endurance races on dirt tracks (Auto Cross).

As I want to get a little more power and a 'simple' installation, I thought about adding a turbo to my 12A engine.

I want to keep my Weber 48IDA and make the installation as simple (reliable) as possible.

What do you think about this turbo?
T04S 60-1 T4 60.85
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=260442787750

arghx

iTrader: (3)

isn't that kind of big for a 12A that isn't drag racing? and looking at that picture in the link... I thought a real T04S (60-1) has 7 blades, not 8. I thought 8 bladed wheels were smaller T04B's but somebody else may know. It says "Air Research" on the housing which is I believe a Garrett brand, so it's probably not a knockoff, just mislabeled.



that's my old Garrett T04S on the left next to a Garrett T04R

TomaSoft

No idea?

I'm new in turbo applications.
I read some threads about turbos, but did not understand everything.

Especially which turbo (size) for which application I should use.

If it’s 'only' big, but will work, it's OK for me, but if it's too big and doesn't fit my application, I have to look for another one.

Here a small video of my race car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB1T5QsIcY

Sorry for my bad English

TomaSoft

I have to leave now.
I'll have a look at your replies on monday.
Thanks for your support.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

That is not a t04s, and its a knock-off. Stay away from turbos on ebay.

Depending on how much power you are looking for a To4E or Gt35R is probably as big as you want to go.

The .82 T4 Gt35R would work well, or a .84 To4E 57/60 trim.

TomaSoft

Thanks for that info.

I don't want too much more power as I'm going for 4 hour endurance races.
I prefer reliability and need just a little more power.

As I'm new in turbo application, not only for endurance auto crossing, I thought about a turbo, that gives me a little more power to start with, but it should have some reserves if needed.

???
I'll have to do a search on that.

Even if I don't know what that means yet, (I'll find it out) I asume that I should buy one without that knock-off thing?

TomaSoft

Knock-off, Brand, Copy, ....
Now I think I understand. Thanks 1Revvin7.
Sorry for my bad English.

According to the price, this should be an original Garrett?
http://cgi.ebay.de/Garrett-full-60-1...item2ea5e3cf5d

Garrett full 60-1 (aka T04S) Turbo w/P trim T4 .84 A/R
- Kompressor: 70 A/R
- Turbine: 84 A/R
- V- Band Abgasgehäuse
- Ölgekühlt
- Verwendbar bis 600 Ps
- 102mm Inlet
- 63 mm outlet

I did not expect to spend so much money on a turbo

ScorpionT

iTrader: (3)

Thats an original Garrett. They arent cheap, but knockoffs arent the route to take.

TomaSoft

Thanks for that info.

I'm doing only 4-5 races per season.

That's why I thought even a copy should make it.
Even if it's not the same quality than an original one, it should do its job?

But I'll have to think about it.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

knockoff turbos are hard to predict. I've seen some last a long time, others fail within 1000 miles.

TomaSoft

1000 miles should bring me over the next 2-3 seasons.

As it is only an experiment, I prefer a buying cheep turbo.
If the setup works for my application, I should still be able to look for better turbo.

That’s why I try to find one that is similar to the one I should buy if I had the money now.

NB.: If the turbo is new, I'll have 2 years of EU warranty. Even for a knockoff.

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

How much traction do you have? A better option might be a rebuilt stock 91 TII Turbo with an external gate.

Can make near on 300BHP and my gen1 only weights 2575lb so thats a lot of power/weight. I have an LSD and drive on semi slick tyres on good surfaces.

I can't imagine 400BHP on dirt tyres off road being easy to drive.

I'm using twin 50mm throttle bodies on top of a IDA manifold on my 12A NA with a turbo.

TomaSoft

I planed something similar.
I want to stay with my 12 engines as I have some of them left.
I have only one 13B TII, with broken seals.
I read about modifying and using a TII turbo, but don’t like the idea of taking apart my TII.

As I want the installation as simple as possible, I thought about keeping my 48IDA carbs and just add a little boost.

My goal is to increase the actual power by 1/3 (or so), especially at the upper rpm range, to get more speed on the long straights.

I don’t know the actual power and weight (should be less than 2000lb) of the car.
I just know that on some tracks, dirt breaks the vehicle down so much, that I lose rpm when shifting up on long straights, even @ 8000-9000rpm.

junito1

Well a 4 hour enduro with turbo engine will create some serious heat. Thermal issues
Oil cooler upgrade and stupid big raditator is a must.
Most turbo rotary circuit cars use 4 inch thick radiators. 4 hour race.. i would too.

If you tell us how much Horsepower u plan on making. We can get a better idea on what turbo you will need.

BUt I would suggest a small t4. I like the to4s with .84. I think it will be better than the gt35 turbo.

Latin270

What mods exacty have you done to your motor to support the extra HP you'll get the boost? I seen many guys over the years blow out seals and damage motors due to the lack of prep.

TomaSoft

I have installed a big radiator, 2 big electrical fans and 2 electrical water pumps.
The radiator is at the back of the car to transport the heat out of the engine bay.
So does the oil radiator. If I should need a bigger one, that won't be a problem.

As I don’t know how much power the car makes now, I cannot say how much power I want, I just know that I need more power to avoid loosing RPM on long straights in 3rd gear.
It's an original 12A, with polished (sometimes ported) in- and out-ports.
I can adapt the porting of the engine to the requirements of a turbo application.

T04s sounds good to me.

TomaSoft

I’ll try to adapt the engine configuration to the requirements of a turbo application.
But I’ll have to find out first, what these requirements are.

junito1

Your loosing rpms in third? As in the gearing is wierd? falls out of powerband?

ANyways. The thermal issues will vary on how hard you push the turbo... PSI..
AN intercooler of correct size and possibly an intercooler sprayer. Like subaru sti's spray water on the intercooler to keep intake temps down.
I suggest an intake temperature sensor because they will be really high on a 4 hour enduro.
Also if the turbo is oil cooled only.. then you will need a bigger oil cooler than a normal Fc3s has for sure.

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

Mines just a fresh block with JDM mazda 12AT apex seals. Basically everything else is stock standard.

I mean a had a turbo port done and the rear stationary bearing 3 windowed, and the rotors side clearanced (thats more for high rpm RPM tho)

Basically I'm close enough to stock that I would actually consider a stock block doable.

You don't even need a WB02 if you are going to start rich (like misfire rich) and then lean it until it runs properly.

TomaSoft

I just don't have enough power to drive in 3rd gear.
Sounds crazy, but it's just that.

The dirt (like loam) on some tracks breaks your car down very badly, especially if it’s wet.
Feels like driving with one foot on the break pedal
On some tracks you even don't need to break before the turns, just move you foot off the accelerator.

I’ve seen guys with original car; they could not shift to 2nd gear. So they dive in first as long as the engine holds.

TomaSoft

Big oil cooler is no problem, as it is located at the back of the car.
I could use two 12A oil coolers for example.

As I want to keep everything as simple as possible, I hoped to do it without intercooler
I take the fresh air (less dirt) from the inside of the car (co-driver compartment).

If I install an intercooler, I have to look where to put it, to keep it clean and allow as much fresh air to pass through it as possible.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

if you don't run an intercooler you really should have an electronic fuel injection system that could adjust ignition timing if your intake temps shoot up

TomaSoft

Is it only the ignition time that has to be adapted or also fuel injection?

Insomniac21772

+1 on T04e works great for me not a large turbo but not to small either. with a smallish hotside (.84) it should spool up quick enough to provide you with decent enough torque in the lower rpms for that sticky mud your driving on.