GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Garrett TO4Z

GT3584R

GT4088RL

All of these are pretty close in power and response. T-Series is supposed to be older technology with twice as many parts as the new GT series (according to Garrett). The GT3584R sounds like my GT500R (except it's T3 and doesn't state a devided option). I'll have to search for specs (if still available) but I thought the 84mm wheel was the 500R option on the GT35R.

Now if I understand the formulas and did the math correctly then (for 400-500whp@15lbs) I want a minimum of 40lbs/min for street use and a maximum of 60lbs/min track use. I'm still trying to learn the maps but what i'm thinking is .84 A/R to acheive this goal and still have low end torque for street and AutoX but I don't know if it will hurt highway and club/open track use? Anybody, nobody ... Beauler?

Erdin

i think 1.00A/R but i dont think youl get 500rwhp with it, you need 1.15 +for that.

dregg100

iTrader: (34)

why would you need a 1.15 for 500 whp? all a bigger hot side does is slow down spool, but at the same time alows the turbo to output more.

how big are your ports? thats how you should decide what size hot side to go with. if you only want 15 psi you dont need a massive hotside, but you do need a decent size compressor to give you enough air for 500 at 15.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

^ that's what I understood. I was previously going to do 20lbs with water injection but I need either higher gears gears for AutoX. With the same gears, I can keep the gas milage and retain top speed but will still ahve to see how it effects club/open track racing.

My ports are maybe medium. They don't do extended ports but they start with a large and sacrifice the size for a smooth angled port.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

I like the TO4Z. It fits on a HKS manifold and it has the star wars look to it but i'd rather have the newer GT technology with less moving parts, so that's eliminated.

The GT35R is a undevided T3 and I would have to figure out where to get a DP and manifold for it. Since the T3 spools faster and the 35R is smaller, it may be the best choice with the .84 for AutoX. The only downside is there's no devided option even though Garrett now has a devided T3.

The GT40R would bolt right in to my existing manifold being that it is the same size compressor housing but maybe more clearance with a .84 turbine housing and more HP at the same boost with a larger compressor wheel. It would also easily bolt in to a HKS manifold.

charlies7

iTrader: (4)

i say just stick with the 500r....

Erdin

the bigger your ports the bigger the A/r needs to be inorder to get rid of back pressure, this is what i understand any way or your power will begine to drop but like you sade you only want to run 15psi so i think you should stick with the 500r to.

Erdin

500 will not happen at 15psi

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Well if I remember the fuel calculator (850/1300's+GTR pump) I would hit 85% 450rwhp and 100% at 485rwhp. ...or was it 85% at 425 and 100 at 450, dang it? So i'm limited on boost anyhow and the larger compressor of the GT40R may give me more HP at the same boost.

I'm not shure how to size my ports. Mazdatrix does not do extended port, only street porting. It may be the same size as Racing Beat. I asked to go as large as possible and then sacrifice size for response. So the porting should be angled. My idle is not lumpy like an extended race port or bridge but you can tell it's ported.

I do not have a 4" exhaust, so I will not make 450rwhp with my 1.06 A/R housed GT500R. I figure with higher compression I could have made 400-425 but with the smaller .84 housing I figure I would make 375-400rwhp @15lbs.

So I can buy a new turbine snail and 3.5" or 4" DP or start fresh with a GT40R.

Erdin

im sure at 16lbs you should be able to make 4-425 with a 1.06a/r on the R500. i thnik you should stick with that turbo.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Only 91oct in southern CA (USA). I would most likely be limited to 15lbs (1bar). Yes, I could buy a .82 housing (at least $100) for the 500R and I could have a fabricator reroute my wg return pipe or buy a new DP ($400).

I should get more HP with a .84 turbine A/R on the GT40RL since it has a 88mm compressor wheel and .72 A/R housing. The GT3584R has a smaller 84mm compressor wheel with a .70 A/R housing.

I'm not sure about spool though becuase the GT40RL has a 72mm turbine wheel and GT3584R has a 68mm turbine wheel, so it's possible I would not gain quicker spool but I would gain HP at the same boost level.

...allthough HKS has a true T4 manifold which should have larger diameter tubes then my converted T3 to T4 500R manifold which most likely has T3 sized pipes. So that might offset the larger turbine wheel spool.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

I made over 700rwhp with a 1.05 A/R

2a+RoN

t6 though, correct?

Erdin

Your 700rwhp was on a GT42 was it not?, he is talking about the gt40, TO4Z and the gt35/40? Have they not all got a smaller turbine then the GT42? and he also whants to run 15psi.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

A GT42 T6 @ 30lbs is way off track from this thread. It does have larger wheels and housings. Which of these things do not belong with the others? - Sesame Street "lol".

TO4Z, GT500R (GT3584R) and GT40R (GT4088RL) all have the same size compressor housings. All are ball brearing. All have very similar rated "max/peak" hp.

TO4Z - uses a short runner T4 manifold
GT500R - has two choices: Short runner T3 with T4 flange or Long runner T4 manifold
GT35884R - no manifold offered, T3 turbine but devided not offered nor is a T4 hybrid.
GT4088RL - no manifold offered but would esily mate with HKS.
...now since the compressor A/R is the same on all of these they are approximately the same size and should not have any fitment issues using the HKS manifold intended for the TO4R which is also approximately the same size.

So what it comes down to (after eliminating the TO4Z) is: At 15lbs, would the GT40R with .85 turbine A/R be equal to or more HP then the GT500R with a 1.06 turbine A/R and still be as quick to spool or quicker?

RICE RACING

just buy yourself a GT35R

it will spool fastest as it has lowest inertia assembly than any other you listed and it will make power @ 15psi 1.06 housing.

that same turbo has made enough power to propel drag cars well into 9 second zone at over 140mph and street circuit RX7's (FC's) into 130+mph in above spec, so what more do you want?

Your not happy to run normal boost on a TO4Z (20+psi) so why waste your time? it pretty pointless especialy when your going between witches hats in car parks

Normal GT35R will suffice 1.06 will give you upper end documented performances 0.82 will give you more resonce, there is a GREAT thread on ausrotary about just such turbo's and thier merits, if your not a member highly recomend you sign up and go do some reading in the right places with people who have and abundance of information on these turbos in real world applications.

http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?t=107563

hard core results from page 12 or so onwards, remember our dynos read much less than your exagerator types BUT the performance on cars is beyond doubts so draw your own conclusions

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

^ Coolio, i'll read that when I get to work. I do have a GT35R, just slightly modified. The turbine housing was switched to a T4 twin scroll and the compressor wheel was swapped for a larger one, but smaller then the GT40R. Both 500R & GT40R are rated about the same in CFM and HP but that is top end with their largest compressor A/R but the GT40R is capable of alot more boost. I will only be using 1bar. Where I am there is only 91 octane petrol. I may do water injection next year, so i'm giving myself room for 20lbs but I won't go higher then that.

Since my turbo and manifold are essntially a modified T3, would I be better off replacing my turbine housing with a twin scroll T3 and replacing my manifold flange with a devided T3 flange?

So what about my question below? ...please translate to US English so us Dingo's can understand.

cozmo kraemer

That is awesome! Must have lots of "work" work to do...

FWIW, I do most of my forum reading from work as well. One can only lecture a mortgage broker on commercial loan scenarios for so long, before one needs some time on the forums!

I dont think you should switch turbos. If you dont want to go above 15psi, you would have been better served with the 35r than that 500r. At least that is what Sean said to me when I ordered..but I didn't want to go above 20psi. I ended up with the 35r and a 1.06A/R turbine.

I dont have any idea what turbo is going to be on my car when Elliot is done with it...I am guessing it will be properly sized to my application though! Which is what I requested

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Blimey, Rice Racing - That thread is all arguing and only a bit of info every ten pages. Oh and the 500R has a .84 compressor blade.

Some from reading and more research i've found that the regular GT35R with 1.06 and the GT40R with .82 will produce about the same air flow at 15lbs. Allthough the GT40R can do it at 10lbs before it peaks and will flow about 33lbs/min and GT35R is about 32lbs/min. Going to the smaller .82 A/R on the GT35R will reduce flow to 20lbs/min and is not acceptable. I can not find any tuebine maps for the GT500R/GT3588R but it has the same size turbine wheel as the regular GT35R, so would the map not be the same?

charlies7

iTrader: (4)

if you want something for autox get a rx6 or something like a 57 trim T04E, 1.15 turbine...lot less pre turbine back pressure, lower egt's

dougiepants

Well I'll let you guys know how the T04Z 1.00A/R w/ Custom Tubular Manifold w/ Tial 44mm Wastegate @ 15psi does in the next two months. I'm about to break in my freashly rebuilt S4 13BT w/ 13B-REW rotors & Agressive Street Port and then going to apply the boost with the tuning. I'll have a full write-up on it w/ high res pics, dyno, and track results.

dougiepants

I actually meant to put I had the 1.15 A/R on it... Sorry for the typo