Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

For a pure pump gas car looking for 375-400(tops) has this turbos time come and gone? Its appealing in price, is compact unlike the 300 frame borg warners(will fit the HKS/Cast mani).

I'm very keen on the EFR 7670 but its a little on the small side for my goals(I already have a very responsive 350rwhp and want more top end than the 99 twins can offer) Basically i make 350 right now with an extremely strong mid range which levels off, i figure if i have a turbo that can support the power all the way to 8k like a small/mid sized single it'll make 375-385 just by its ability to keep making power up top.

The EFR is pretty much a grand more than the old school 60-1 and im not sure its entirely worth it for a 100% street car with max reliability in mind which really is the only reason i want to ditch the twins.

I have 99 twins with the upgraded control rack and the power is so smooth and easy to modulate its almost like a NA car after 3k rpms but it just lacks the punch on the big end i want.

Anyway, seems like back in the day the T04S was the turbo to get for pump gas use for ~400rwhp since it moves a ton of air under 18psi and if i stay with a stockish port shouldnt give up too much mid range and will probably swap in 4.44 gears to liven the car up off boost since i dont think its physically possible to have sequential twin response wth a single, though the 7670 may be the one turbo that can do it, but traction is already and issue down low so I'm not sure i really want any more response or power low/mid than i already have.

This is my current graph. The last line is 8k, i hold over 300rwhp from 5500 to 7500 so its not a total slouch up top, but you can see its DYING after 7500


Wilmer said a lot of the power drop off is caused by the relatively useless greddy SMIC(stays cool underway, but cooks on the dyno) and the twins at 14psi are just throwing a lot of hot air

I'm really just looking for the ultimate simple/single setup which an HKS cast mani(i did manage to track down a mint 50mm HKS gate ) and an old but proven T04S to me seems like as close to that as i can get that will allow fitment of the air pump/acv still(strict emissions here).

I plan to run the new greddy v-mount also for more proper cooling, would nab the big *** HKS setup, but its the same price as the greddy and not as complete or does it look as well thought out.

This is my current setup, love the stock look/fitment but fear the stock complexity and how much heat it all creates. Have replaced everything under the hood and havnt had any real issues other than an exhaust leak that wont stay sealed up.


This is my ideal setup except with the air pump to keep the idle lean/clean


Thoughts/input much appreciated, I tried to put out everything I'm thinking about on the car, if i went with BNR's id want to keep everything exactly the same as it is now with the limited cooling capacity and that concerns me with turbos that will make another 25-50hp since i'm pretty much at the limit of all my thermal management systems.

Ihor recommended the BNR twins over a single setup for being the most cost effective and a definite on delivering power the in a manner in which im used to and wont be a let down in spool/transitional power since it'll be rather similar to what i have now, but not as much the 99's respond way better than the USDM's that came off the car did.

Basically anything 35 frame is what im limited to for packaging reasons. SO precision is open, but seem pretty hit/miss on their quality, obviously the garrets are there, the 60-1 is the one im eying and of course the new gotta have it EFR 7670 is there too but carries the biggest price tag, the S is appealing at a little over 800 bucks since its priced inline with the A/W borg warners which everyone loves for being so cost effective.

Jason

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

The T04S is a great turbo. I started with a T04S and eventually rebuilt it into a T04R. Before going single, I ran the sequential twins at 13psi for a few years. I was worried about lag on the T04. However, it actually turned out the the lag did not bother me in the least. The power delivery was very smooth and predictable. I had full boost around 4200rpm on the T04S.

440rwhp @ 18psi on the T04S and then made 525rwhp @ 24 psi on the T04R. I would recommend either one.

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

I also agree. for the cost it is one of the best units out there .

pair it with a descent manifold and wastegate along a a descent size hot size ( .84 or .96 open or divided depending your mani ) .

there are a few units out there that are also in the price range and have proved them selves ( s300 to 366 for example )

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

was that simply a CHRA swap or is it much more complicated than that?

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

compressor wheel and machine compressor housing or new compressor housing.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

even simpler. thanks.

drifting in drifting

iTrader: (11)

Awsome turbo responsive and 400 hp easy to find parts cheap to rebuild aahhhh yeah

rx7jocke

i made 384rwhp on a ball bearing t04s with full boost(16psi) by 3400rpm on a stock port s4 engine, made 407rwhp at 17psi but didnt have the ***** since my engine is not pinned/studded.
it is a good turbo but make sure to get the p-trim turbine ar 1.0 or bigger and the 4" compressor cover.
i know of a13b rew making 450rwhp+ with full boost at 3200!

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

The to4S is a very dated turbo. Our TDX series turbos provide more power everywhere for only slightly more cost. There is a back to back dyno sheet in the pictures here showing high and low boost vs the OE garrett cast wheels;

Turblown Engineering TDX Series Turbochargers

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

You can find new/rebuilt Garrett T04R/S turbo's for under $900 shipped, that's what was appealing to me.

Upgrading from T04S to R was simply swapping out compressor wheel, rebalancing and machining the housing.

If you are willing to spend a little mroe, turblowns TDX61R looks nice

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

The X57 is quite appealing. Will it fall in line with the S power wise but spool faster i assume? The S just moves a whole lot of air under 18psi which is where i'll be 99% of the time.

I like the idea that i could add A/I and still have a ~425-440rwhp car.

If it helps, a stock C6 Z06, specifically the more lively 06 model year, is the car I've been building my current car to be power wise since that car is as fast stock as I'd ever want a 2700lb car to be. Which i think a strong mid range 425 would do it since they are 3150 with 440rwhp on average but with a gearing/torque advantage.

Thoughts?

Jason

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Yes to all of the above.

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

Cool, I'll be picking away at this over the fall/winter so i can drop it off at JPR once all the parts are in for a fresh engine and assembly.

I try to cover all my angles which leads me to over thinking some things...like..a lot. lol I'm in love with the EFR setups but I've already had one car that i built to over 800awhp turn into a huuuuuuuge financial black hole and I'm desperately trying to keep this FD reasonably priced in the cash i throw into it and not ruin the awesome balance the car has. Which is why i like the idea of a smaller turbo since it wont suck at ~350 where my car is now(which i enjoy a lot since its so responsive) but can still open the taps up to satisfy my need for more power when i want it.

But also handcapped by the 35 frame of turbo to keep my ACV/Air pump setup for emission inspection which i have to do every other year. The air/ACV keep my idle nice and lean/clean. I sit around 15:1 at idle and even with a straight exhaust dont have a car that stinks of fuel which I'd like to keep that way.

Jason

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

I just did 357hp on a crapped out T04S.(bad oil seal).
Got it rebuilt and I was fortunate to get a watercool and oil upgrade.

If I ever find out how to Tune a damn PS1000 I am gonna be knockin on Elliot's door though for a new TD61R..lol!

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

How would the tdx57 compare to the 61 power and spool wise at around 15 - 18 psi on a street port, both running the 1.0 rear?

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

I think I am around 400WHP around 15PSI boost or so on a GT3574R. I do like the spool characteristics of this turbo, and I am at 6,300FT above sea level which slows spool down.

I would go with this sized turbo again. so Precision 6266, GT35, EFR 8374, TDX61 turbo sizes in divided, .84 to 1.04 sizez in T4 flange size. 4" intake, 3" exhaust.

Zenki FC3S

Battlecat on here is selling a T04S

arghx

iTrader: (3)

ran a T04S for a while, switched to a T04R. Seems most people get tired of it (more than the normal churn of anyone getting tired of any turbo). It's not quite small enough to be really responsive, and not big enough to put down the bigger numbers (especially if your dyno isn't so generous). It still needs an external wastegate, big compressor inlet, and all the fitment hassles.

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the info all, still have lots to think about. Right now the TDX57 is looking like my best option.

Jason

djseven

iTrader: (56)

BW s258 with 1.0 t4 hot side. Should fit fine with HKS cast manifold, costs less than $1k and should do right around 400rwhp around 16-18psi

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Two things to keep in mind additionally :

Bw takes a rediculously long time with warranty work . Its never longer than 1 week with our turbos .

Furthermore all of our tdx series turbos are built by a Garrett tech who only does turbo building and repairs (over 25 years worth). I've never once seen a bad unit, its always end user issues ( less than 5 percent have too big of a restrictor , engine issues or not a big enough crankcase vent ).

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Physics hasn't changed so the T04S (60-1) compressor still matches a rotary well at low boost and the big "P" trim exhaust wheel can flow well in a 1.0AR T4 housing.

However, if you ever want to run race gas and boost over 16psi-18psi the T04S won't deliver much more peak power- mainly a bit more under the curve.

If you are going to run the HKS cast manifold you will likely have issues with boost creep if you try to run low boost with an unrestricted exhaust.

I am going from a really reworked 385rwhp S5 hybrid turbo (60-1 Hi Fi compressor, P trim exhaust wheel, 60mm external wg, reworked manifold/turbine housing runners) to an EFR 7670 on old style T4 flanged HKS T04Z SS manifold with twin 44mm external wgs.

I fully expect to lose peak power at the lower boost settings I run on pump gas.

I am hoping for much better response and area under the curve as well as the ability to make a little more power at higher boost on race gas.

Actually, the benefit of the light weight EFR exhaust wheel is amplified on the larger turbine wheel sizes, so this little 7670 might not be the best for response even- would probably be best to run a hybrid EFR 7680 or 8380 on a rotary for best response. At this point you are having to buy two expensive turbos to make this fantasy turbo.

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

Low boost will be w/e my pump limit is(16-17psi i figure). Not all the way down to 10-12 or anything. I wanted to the run the cast since its likelyhood of failure is minimal at best.

If thats still an issue even with HKS's 50mm gate vs the Tial 44 that can be adapted to use I may reconsider(hence the discussion).

The only other reason I dont run BNR's is a sequential car for me is intimidating to own due to the enormous complexity of it vs a single setup. But will not give up my ability to keep the acv/air pump to keep me emissions legal allowing me to just bolt back in my car and run straight through inspection here(like I can now)

Appreciate any/all input. The FD is still new to me, i went from a know it all in my old platform to trying to learn as quickly as I can!

If anyone still feels like Ihor does and I should just run the BNR's and go on about my business due to the emissions thing feel free to speak up!

Jason

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Stock port 13B, TO4S turbo on .81(?), no boost controller, 9psi wastegate spring, cripping to 11psi.

PFS dyno/tuned on a Haltec E6K:


KDR dyno/tuned on a Haltec PS100:


Obsolete, sure is. Cheap on the rebuilds, and they are dime a dozen. If I had the money, and would be looking for a turbo, the TDX61 or BW S300 would be on top of my list!

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the charts. I would be giving up a lot of torque vs my twins at a similar rwhp. I'm at ~310tq now.

Jason