TT_Rex_7

Wether or not it's going to create more hp, or spool the turbo faster, all depends on the design. As far as lasting longer, it all depends on what material, thickness, and the welds. If all of those are top notch, then yes, they will last longer.

-Alex

GUITARJUNKIE28

i know all that...

i wanna do a heads up comparison with the cheap stuff and a few of the other ones and see where the extra money goes.

SnowmanSteiner

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=964751

A couple quotes from this thread:

I have a 95 Integra LS that I am currently putting a turbo on and I purchaced a ssautochrome manifold off ebay. It has its pros and cons: The radiator fan will have to be removed for installation but it will fit if you want to put it back on but it is a close fit. There is no problem clearing the PS pump but the AC is a really close fit between the downpipe and the back of the AC compressor. I had to refabricate my downpipe to make it fit. Also I had to move the AC line that runs along the top of the radiator but that wasnt that hard.


My wastegate fell off 3 times in the first 2 months, I had insane boost creep. I had more problems in 2 months of running that mani than in a year with my drag mani.


i didnt have a problem with cracking but one of the braces fell of and it creeps like crazy... i kreeped to 15 psi one time with 8 psi spring... sux


Had one for less than a month on the wifes car. Build a downpipe with a flex joint. Wastegate fell off TWICE (literally off, it was hanging on by the vacuum hoses and the dump tube got jammed up somewhere) and all the runners began to crack. Why should I spend time and money welding up braces when I can go spend 400 bucks for a proven SFP manifold that won't crack, and that's exactly what I did. I threw it in the garbage because it wasn't worth dick.



My room mate (sorry if this is too distant of a testimonial) has been boosted for about 3 maybe 4 months. He had his SSAC manifold braced before installation, and has since been off 3 times to be RE-welded. And it's not because of the down pipe either, as he is running a VERY short open downpipe. Last week a chunk of the collector was sucked in the turbo and became lodged in the blades. It didn't hurt anything, but damn, it could have...



I had one for a month and boost creeped out of hell, wg fell off, turbo flange cracked few times. I spent more money in rewelding than I could of bought a proven manifold


Now if you were a company and you were selling a product, would you tell your consumers that they are going to need to put in work to A. get it to fit, B. get it to work properly, C. fix it over and over again? I remember a year or so ago, when Sean was working on the GT35R kit for the fd's he was having a problem with fitment and hitting either the manifold or the strut tower, guess what he did, he continued working until he found a way to get it in there without touching/rubbing anything. You said yourself that your manifold made your turbo hit your manifold. Almost every single rx7 person that I've seen buy these, has had to clean up all the crap welds on the runners, or reweld different parts. Has anyone ever had to clean up the welds or reweld anything on a manifold from A-spec, Gotham, or any other reputable tuner out there? NO. I don't know why you want to back a company that produces such crappy products. Regardless of whether they've fixed the cracking problem, the consistency of people coming on here and saying they had to weld the manifold again, and clean up the runners, and re drill the holes for turbo flange, should be enough to show that this company does not take the time to make a quality product, they rush to get it out on the market then make the consumer clean up their mistakes and fix the problems they generated. Sorry bud, but I wouldn't want that kind of support, I prefer tuner products that are made to work properly and that are made correct the first time, that don't require me to FIX their problems.

- Steiner

GUITARJUNKIE28

good reading, but let's keep this rotary-specific.

i'm still waiting for people with first-hand experience.

SnowmanSteiner

Well I have never heard anything from them that gives any inclination that they do anything different with their manifolds for rotaries than they do for any other piston engine. Which means that if other manifolds are prone to cracking then ones on the rotary are probably more susseptible considering the higher egts. Regardless of that, what I said in the last paragraph still holds true. Almost every person with an FC or FD that has bought one of their manifolds, have had to clean up the welds, or drill new holes for the flanges. That alone is reason enough, for me, not to buy the product. If they can't even get the flanges right, or even make welds clean enough. I just refuse to buy a product that is supposedly engineered for my car that requires me to fix part of their manufacturing process.

- Steiner

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

My base flanges are .75 in some circumstances they may be .625 no thinner. and guess what they warp when being assembled this is even being bolted down to a .625 plate. .375 is to thin for use. It will warp. I'm not argueing with you I just think you are trying to avoid the points by bringing up others. Kinda like answering a question with a question.


I think it's funny period, you say you have no experience with the product yet try to substantiate it. Notice I do not come on here and slap my sig with my product in this thread. I am not on here saying buy "my" product. As I stated I could care less what you have on your car. I just try and tell you guys from a experienced and educated standpoint what is quality and will hold up, and what is not. After that you decide.


Truth is half of you wont get your car running good enough to fully put one of those manifolds through its passes and just wind up selling the car in a couple years. The other half may but then they occasionally drive hard on the street. Woo Hoo! (yes I'm being a smart ***) I have guys driving my stuff on the track both strip and road coarses. So for the last time from "Experience"(actually being familiar with it, the whole process, use and assembly) Those manifolds will not hold up to that use. On your cheap single turbo upgrade for tootling around with on the street maybe. For awhile. When you guys can say that you've put together and used as many for as long you can then have something to back up your claims. No offense meant.

GUITARJUNKIE28

i see your point, but what's "tootling" around about a bridgeported turbo car?

this thread has gone way the hell off on a tangent.

anyone who's had a problem with one of the cheap-o manifolds chime in and tell your story.

txturbogs

I'll put my 2 cents here regarding SSAutochrome stuff. I have a turbocharged Eclipse GS (not GS-t or GSX), and some people I know in the 2GNT community have bought their turbos at SSAuto, guess what? Turbos sucked! I imagine the rest of their products do too.

TT_Rex_7

Trying to make sure your manifolds withstand a nuclear blast?! IMO, 5/8" is more than enough, and 3/4" is just a HUGE overkill. I think 5/8" will definitly give you peice of mine, but 3/4" is just a waste of money.

When I had my manifold made, I made up 1/2" flanges for the turbos, wastegates, and header flange. I left a bit of stock on each flange though, which you'll figure out why in a second. When everything was welded, I had a second flange bolted to each one to help keep them from warping. When I got the manifold back, I went ahead and set it up in one of my machines and took a cut off each flange to bring them down to exactly a 1/2". By doing this, it will ensure a flat surface, and a leak free joint! For the piping, I went with 2.4" O.D., with a .20" wall thickness. (2" I.D.) At the time we wasn't sure how the downpipes would fit, or even be ran, so I wasn't able to weld in braces. However, once the downpipes are finished, i'll be going with a 1/2" brace for each turbo. The one thing that i've done, that I havn't seen anyone else do, is add braces between all the studs/nuts. I took some 1/4" thick, 5/8" wide strips of flat stock, and machined 2 holes on either side. I placed them on the studs, so when I tighten up the nuts, it will help distribute the pressure against the whole flange, instead of just the 4 corners. With the flange being 1/2", it probably isn't helping much, but every little bit helps right?! I made everything from 304 stainless. Anywho, I feel that my setup is more than enough, and I don't expect any problems with warping, or cracking!

-Alex

AImec Racing

i'm using the SS maifold, WG, BOV and turbo,,,about 1 year from now...dynoed 430whp,,,manifold was installed just like it came (no mods) turbo's thrust bearings are **** but that's about all ,,,(i know some people having the same thrust bearing problem),,,i know 4 people running the SS FD manifold with no problems and install them w/o mods,,, i agree the company looks careless about quality and customer service but i suposse that that's what you pay for... may be i'm been lucky with my stuff but until now,,,i'm more than happy with my set-up so far,,, and will let you know if something goes wrong,,,

GUITARJUNKIE28

i'd be afraid to use the wastegates.
if the turbo blows, that sucks, but get another and you're good. same for the manifold... but if the wastegate sticks shut, boom.

SnowmanSteiner

I guess I'm fairly alone in the idea of do it once, do it right.

- Steiner

GUITARJUNKIE28

no, you're not.

but if i have to modify one bolt hole, whoopity ******' doo if it saves $1000. everyone's still apt to talk **** about the cheap stuff but i still haven't seen anything anywhere near definative.

SPOautos

Thats because like Zero said, MANY of the people that are cheap never get thier cars running or wont be making enough power or driving it under the conditions that matter. You start hitting a lot of road coarses with it or do a lot of hard high speed 4ht gear driving or high boost high egt driving and you'll see. The material they use isnt thick enough for teh grade. It would be fine if it was 321ss but its not and if it was it wouldnt be so cheap. I looked into making a nice manifold out of 321 and by the time you get everything you need the material alone was over $400. I just decided it wasnt worth the time and effort so I bought a $700 one thats all 321ss

I'd rather buy the HKS cast over the Ebay manifolds.

Stephen

kenn_chan

Zero R, I am not defending it, I am poking fun at all of the people who are talking trash about them, there is a distinct difference.

The one gentlemen who posted the photos with the photoshop text, and arows was a perfect example, the thing was obviously rewelded by the owner for some reason, (and I don't think the reason was cracking either) it cracked above the weld (a very shitty one) and he tried to use that as proof of there quality level.

I simply raised the bull **** flag on him, as it was obvious that it cracked all of the way around this new weld. (please look closely at the photo before you reply on this one.

While I have been welding for a number of years, his reply comments ticked me off enough that I grabbed a couple of the master welders from the ships repair facility here on the base to give me their opinions (they weld steam pipes both thick, and thin walled that hold thousands of PSI of steam pressure in a variety of hard to weld metals) , and they both stated that it appeared to be due to the new weld that had been layed, IE: poor welding techniques, and that whoever re-welded that did not tig it, but probably mig welded it at the wrong tempature hence the bubble gum appearance and the large amount of over fill on it.

The person who posted it tried to then BS me about it, Sorry, but I am an Irish American, and when it comes to BS, I have all of the patience, and control of temper that we are so well known for.....(zero).


not flaming you, nor anybody else, but if he had posted some REAL, no BS photos, or results from non destructive testing results (x-rays, penetrant dyes etcthen I would not have said **** one way or the other.

Like I stated before, I am the guy who threw one of there wastgates plunger valves on a lathe, and hit it with a dial indicator, I did this for a reason, to post substantiated NON BS results.

Not the crap you read here on this forum a lot of times , (my brothers second cousins friend 5 times removed had a friend that etc, etc, etc. Its all hearsay, until they, can actually post some proof, not he says, she says highschool crap.

kenn

GUITARJUNKIE28

that's what i was doing.

"they're crap!!!"

ok, show me a broken one that the owner didn't destroy himself.


not one person has shown me one so far...


and how much do you guys wanna bet that if ssautochrome slapped a "name brand" label on their **** and sold it under a defferent name, people would be singing praises?

TT_Rex_7

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1073443&page=1

There's the original thread.

BTW Kenn, I wasn't the one that originally posted the picture. That same manifold cracked in another location before it was even cut and re welded. However, the cause of the crack in the picture was due to the weld around the turbo flange. I simply pointed out that the other welds on the manifold are ****. Another thing to note about the manifold, is that the braces should have held the turbo up when it cracked, not drop it several inches from the collector. Anywho, I was wrong about the weld not being the cause. For whatever reason, that weld was placed over another. However, I do feel that if the outside weld was the only thing holding the flange to the collector, it would have cracked right on the weld. Oh, I think it was stated in the thread above that it was stick welded.

If any of you take some time out to read through the thread, you'll notice several first hand experiances with the manifolds cracking.

From a simple search through google, i've found several forums that have shown their turbos, wastegates, and manifolds. Majority of them all had problems. There are the few that arn't having any problems as of yet, however that seems to be far and in between. What I don't understand, is if everyone knows their wastegates and turbos are ****, what would make their manifolds any diffrent?!

I had already known that ssautochrome=xspower, but OBX is also apart of the "gang." If you search for OBX, you'll see alot of cracked headers.

-Alex

books

iTrader: (8)

Perhaps ssautochrome's EBAY feedback would provide some insight.

kenn_chan

There EBAY feedback is for ****, there a a few complaints about the equipment, but there are mostly complaints about their business practices and customer service, Some of their replies to feedback left are amazing, if I bought something from them, and they left a feedback on me that looked like that, I would track the ********** down and remove his ********* with a very dull knife but the equipment seems to be for the most part a hit or miss type of thing, I personally feel that its more of a quality control thing than anything, you can train anybody to weld a header together, and if they follow the instructions it will work everytime, when it doesn't work is when the QC people should catch it. once again I will continue to make my own, but please all (mainly casue I am an *******) try to be factual!

do some solid research, and impress me nothing will get one of these any quicker than a well researched complaint that shows proof, anything else (he says she says ****) gets this .

kenn

GUITARJUNKIE28

***tangent alert***

SnowmanSteiner

I just posted an entire thread devoted to failures of SSAutochrome's manifolds? I've shown you. How many people that own an RX-7 actually have one on that is running, very few, which is why we haven't heard much from them on either side, good or bad.

- Steiner

iceman4357

iTrader: (2)

I dont think i would invest in the Turbo...but the new manifolds dont look to bad. Im going to get one for my T78. If it needs moded, then i wil have someone do it. The welds dont look bad, and if i pay someone to mod it, it is still way cheaper than purchasing a name brand one. **** even the name brand ones crack after a while. My friend had a T78 on his rx7 and when he upgraded to a T88, we took off the manifold and found 3 cracks and the manifold was a greddy.If the ss turns out to be a shitty manifold, i will give it to my friend to use as a bong and have someone build me one.

GUITARJUNKIE28

remember when i said rx7's????? i dont' care how many honda guys kill their ****. i'm talking about the 13b turbo manifold for the fd's.

this is useless...5 pages of the EXACT crap i was trying to avoid. mods please close, delete, burn, and **** on this thread. nobody has given ANY useful information!

TT_Rex_7

Dude seriously, I can't figure out wtf your looking for. How the hell are we supposed to show you good/bad things about their manifolds on rx7s?! There's only a hand full of people that have them. Wether the manifold is for a Honda, Mazda, or Nissan, they are all built with the same qaulity. Why the hell would it differ between them!?

Think about this, if they can't hold up to the power/heat that a Hnda produces, there's no way in HELL they're going to hold up to a rotary. If you don't know, they run a hell of alot hotter than a piston engine, and i'd say most single rx7's are laying down alot more power than the avg. Honda.

Now, from all the threads that have been listed, it's a hit and miss with their manifolds. A select few hold up, and most crack. We also know majority need modifications to simply be installed. Please tell us what else your looking for!!

As far as their current manifolds, it states that they use 2.7mm thick stainless, which shouldn't have any problems cracking. However, that depends on what grade it is. Since these manifolds are pretty cheap, i'd say it's a lower grade stainless to keep costs down. If that is the case, it'll still crack. The new manifolds still have 3/8" flanges which are to thin! Other then that, the braces won't support the turbo if the manifold cracks. Now, if you go out and purchase a nice Garrett turbo, it's going to run you ~$1,000.00. If the manifold cracks, and drops the turbo, chances are it'll damage it. If that does happen, after you get done repairing/replacing the turbo, and purchasing another manifold, you'll be over the cost of a decent manifold and turbo.

-Alex

GUITARJUNKIE28

i love how everyone is saying it WON'T hold up...it'll crack, warp, etc....

but everyone who's used one hasn't had that happen. i've asked a bunch of times for people to chime in who have actually had problems with them (other than the bolt holes), but the only people saying anything bad are the people who haven't used them.

the people who talk the most usually have the least to say.