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Posting hoping this alert gets to Skeese and he posts some heat for us!
Ive been working through wiring issues and haven't yet started the car. I've found that when you completely overhaul a FD over 2+ years and redo everything that alot of stuff doesnt show up until you power up and try to tie it all together at the end. At this point, I think pretty much sorted everything and am finally ready to try and fire it this weekend.
In regards to the fuel system, everything is suprisingly solid. I had to redo the ptfe house ends in the sump to pump lines as I had pinched the tube on a few and was getting some small leaks, but that's been resolved now. I had honestly been expecting the hardlines to leak this whole time but was suprised to find not a single hardline connection leaked when pressurized, so overall I'm happy with them.
Hoping to see first fire on the new setup this weekend, then all that's left is me finishing up welding the exhaust and starting some street tuning! I can't wait....I really do think this setup is going to haul ***.
A guy whose car I tuned a few months back mentioned to me he had recently read my whole thread on E85 fuel setup for 750hp which made me realize I never circled back here to post how it all ended up working out!
Since I last posted on this thread, I ended up moving from Houston Texas back home to North Georgia so it ended up taking a good bit longer than planned to get the car fully sorted due to all the crap involved with moving cross country, but probably 4-5 months ago I got everything wrapped up and back running. I ended up going the drive by wire route and rewire/re-pinning the LMS harness to accommodate that and I can honestly say it made all the difference in the drivability of the car with the semi port engine. I think the only other major change between then and now was when I bought the tig welder and taught myself to weld in my basement so that I could make my own full 4". As I'm overly ****, that added a good bit of time as well as I remade everything probably 10 times until it all looked and matched perfect.
So here's the car as it sits now with the DBW and full 4" added on.
So back to the fuel system performance as that was the initial focus of this thread....I don't remember if I mentioned it in an earlier post, but I did deviate from my initial plan to run the 2X ID1300 primaries and 4X ID2000 secondary injectors and swapped out the 1300s for another set of ID2000s so I'm now running 3 total stages with 2/ID2000's per stage, all at 45 PSI base fuel pressure. I also decided to give Alpha-N (TPS-Load) tuning a try and found it to be a 100043570439853475% better fit for my car.
As of now the car is running 23 PSI on the 76mm on ~E65 fuel holding rock solid fuel pressure all the way to 10k with the 2 044s behind it. In the 3rd gear pull shown in the data log below to 10,000 rpms it was running a 10.9 AFR using 85% of the first stage, 85% of the second stage, and 48% of the third stage which is ~73% of my total fuel flow capacity. This isn't fully accurate to how much is needed at that level as the 3rd stage was artificially high here due to the stage-on enrichment was adding 25% and the RPM limiter correction was adding another 15% all when the third stage came on between 9000-9500 rpm.
I've got no idea how much horsepower its actually making at the rear tires right now on the 23 lbs as I've only been street tuning it and haven't gotten on the dyno, but its scary fast. I had a data log the other day that showed a 3rd gear pull that started at cruise at 48 mph running up to 112 mph at 10,000rpms in 6.1 seconds. I figure between the difference in the E65 in the tank and E85 I hope to get on the next fill and the remaining overhead in the fuel system capacity I should be able to get to at least 30 PSI without running out of injector, but we'll know shortly. I figure if I do end up needing more I'll just replace the second and third stage ID2000s with the new ID2600s and that should cover any boost level the engine can ever realistically hold.
I've also got a third 044 on standby if I find I need that to hold fuel pressure at higher boost but think if it comes to that I'll either go to one of the massive brushless gear pumps or a cable driven mechanical.
Looks killer. Any transient low throttle issues with 2000s in the primaries? If I were in your position I would have gone 1300s/2000s/2600s and potentially dropped the staging down but I'll admit I haven't had the pleasure of smoothing out low load stuff with DBW on a street vehicle, only race stuff.
Also, and maybe this has been covered, which EWP are you running? Anything interesting with that control strategy? A meziere 50 GPM on the turbo 3 rotor overcools at full song so for **** as giggles I've decided to run a Davies Craig EWP150 and a rear mounted radiator for the periph 4 rotor I'm fitting. I'm already assuming (and have made provisions for in the routing/mounting) that I'll have to run two in series but it's nice to see what other people have found in high output setups.
Looks killer. Any transient low throttle issues with 2000s in the primaries? If I were in your position I would have gone 1300s/2000s/2600s and potentially dropped the staging down but I'll admit I haven't had the pleasure of smoothing out low load stuff with DBW on a street vehicle, only race stuff.
Also, and maybe this has been covered, which EWP are you running? Anything interesting with that control strategy? A meziere 50 GPM on the turbo 3 rotor overcools at full song so for **** as giggles I've decided to run a Davies Craig EWP150 and a rear mounted radiator for the periph 4 rotor I'm fitting. I'm already assuming (and have made provisions for in the routing/mounting) that I'll have to run two in series but it's nice to see what other people have found in high output setups.
It idles at 1750 rpms chopping like a helicopter with a 13.0 AFR which the log says is using ~4% duty on the primary injectors being about 1.38-1.42 ms pulse width on the ID2000. According to the low pulse data from ID, the ID2000 non-linear low pulse width region ends right at 1 ms so it shouldn't be impacted there.
I really haven't had any noticeable issues at low throttle with this setup either, but I attribute that mostly to the TPS load tuning. When I was still on the rpm X map based fuel table it was all sorts of picky, jerky and unstable at low rpm when using the single blade 90mm rotary works throttle body, so bad that I sold that and went back to the factory one with the staged linkage. Going to drive by wire made it functional on the map X rpm tune, but combining that with the Alpha N TPS load fueling setup eliminated damn near all of it. Its honestly such a smooth driving streetable car in vacuum (aside from the chopping idle) that driving it doesn't feel much different than a street port.
I've got the regular old EWP150 using the controller that it came with. I was originally going to control it with the haltech but decided it wasn't worth the extra effort and having to control it after a friend of mine told me about how his literally just ran on whatever temperature he set it to without any further input. Since install and over probably 1200 miles after I've had the same experience. Its set to target 185F water temp and once warm the car runs 180-188F all the time across idle, traffic, cruise, boost...whatever. I really have no complaints and given I had to do nothing but install it, no real feedback beyond that it just works as it should.
Originally Posted by TonyStarkz
Skeese, you never fail to disappoint. I'm thoroughly impressed. Well done!
Now you know we're going to ask for a dyno....because well who doesn't love a good chart!
I'm going to try and make that happen soon. Admittedly I've never been to a dyno with the car, or even physically myself which is pretty strange considering I've tuned a ton of these cars on the street. I found out the other day that Fueltech USA is actually only about 20 minutes from my house and through some mutual friends know the owner of that deal is a huge rotorhead so I'm hoping to drive the FD by there later this week and just say whats up. I know their website says "in house dyno only to be used by cars powered by fueltech ECUs" but who knows, maybe he'll think its cool and toss it on there to see what it makes. Either way, it'll probably happen pretty soon somewhere regardless.
Also, if anyone is interested I just posted up an informational thread on how I plan to go about setting up the variable boost levels via a rotary trim switch and how that all ties into closed loop boost control with flex fuel safety controls. It blows my mind that stuff like this and nobody replies. There were only a handful of really good detailed tuning threads back when I was first learning and I remember reading through the same ones over and over trying to figure it out, as most were Q&A or general progression type stuff and not truly a "how-to" thread.
Looking back a few posts it looks like the last update I had was when I was running 23 PSI. Since then, I have refined the tune to a level of absolute perfection and tuned the boost and fuel map up to where the MAP sensor is flatlining at the 29 PSI max of the internal 3 bar MAP sensor. In the latest log, I flatline the map reading at 29 PSI right at 5000 rpms and it holds there until I let off at 10,000 rpm. AFR is still following the target perfectly fine, so I've just been running it like this for a couple weeks but wired a new 5 bar MAP sensor in yesterday so I'll know shortly how much I'm actually at.
At 29-31 PSI (best guess?) on E70 running a 10.8 AFR and 50 PSI base fuel pressure my max fueling use was 85% on both primary and secondary stage and the third stage clipped 65% duty...so I've got a little bit more head room, but not a ton. Fuel pressure is holding solid with the 2 bosch 044s with the second one being set to come on anytime throttle exceeds 40% and MAP is above 0.0 PSI. See youtube link below for some 29+ PSI pull videos.
I'm happy with it as it sits now, but still want to get on a dyno and find out what she's making as it sits. My goal has always been 750 wheel, so if I'm not there at whatever this 29+ PSI boost level is now then I will be by the time I leave the dyno or I'll be going home with the motor in pieces.
Hey everyone! I'm glad to report I FINALLY got the car on the dyno and got some numbers! I'm still working on editing the video clips into a a single youtube video and I'll post the link here once its up.
The dyno session went perfectly smooth. I drove the car onto the dyno and on the first pass un-touched street tune it made 711rwhp and 550 ft.lbs of torque! This first pull was in 4th and I had too much duty in the wastegate table down low which caused an overboost condition to 37 PSI by 5200 rpms, then it leveled out to the 31 PSI and held all the way up. This fast spool overboost was what drove the 550 ft.lbs torque reading on the first pull.
To avoid having to monkey with spool timing on the dyno, I took out the low spool duty so we could just skip the overboost condition and focus on tuning fuel and timing at higher boost levels. The rest of the pulls were made in 3rd, so the numbers can be assumed to be slightly lower that what we'd have seen in 4th.
After 10 pulls where we iterated fuel, boost and timing we made 778 rwhp and 494.7 ft.lbs torque at 36.5 PSI! We did make one pull at 38 PSI which resulted in higher torque numbers, but less horsepower which to me was a sign that the 36.5 PSI was where we exceeded the flow capability of the factory UIM which I had anticipated would happen. Fuel pressure started dropping off past about 33 PSI and we were literally using 99.9% of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd injection stages (each with 2X 2200cc ID2000's) so its safe to say that 36.5 PSI was the stopping point for the day!
Overall I'm EXTREMELY HAPPY with the outcome and consider it mission accomplished as the car made over 750rwhp. The dyno session went perfectly smooth as we literally didn't have to touch any mechanical aspect of the car while on the dyno and made 10 pulls total without any issue! Huge thanks to my friend Sean Flynn (Ninja Socks on here) for driving down from Greenville SC to drive the car on the dyno while I did the tuning in the passenger seat!
For the time being I'm going to leave the car alone and just wrap up some small mostly aesthetic details within the interior and get some R888Rs on the new set of Volk CE28SL rims I've got sitting in my home office waiting to go on the car. I'm kinda on the fence about keeping or selling the car. If I do end up deciding to keep it, I'll likely be buying a projay typhoon to handle the flow up top and support more injectors. I'm not sure what exactly I'd want to do pump wise to fix the pressure dropping off up top, but I'm sure I can figure something out should I decide to push it.
That’s awesome man! Good on you for sticking with it.
Thanks! There have definitely been a few time along the way where I almost caved and wanted to push it off a cliff. I already had a cliff picked out and everything!
Originally Posted by TonyStarkz
Great to see the "paper validation" of all the work you've done street tuning this setup. Fantastic job!
To me that was the best part. Not only was I right on target with my "just over 700 on street tune guess" and got to prove all those who doubted wrong, but the car performed flawlessly. I see these people who go to the dyno and end up having all sorts of issues causing them to have to stay on it all day and wrench on the car between each pull, which to me just beyond silly. If you're trying to send it and it isn't prepared to be sent, that is how you end up going home on a trailer with a box of broken parts. We rolled on, put down 10 700+ hp passes with only tuning in-between, then rolled off and drove home.
Originally Posted by estevan62274
Awesome work Skeese! Thanks for sharing the results.
Whatcha interested in getting if you sell the FD?
Honestly probably nothing for a while. I do love this car and have enjoyed my journey with it over the past ~8 years that brought me/it here, but my life is so different now with wife and kids then when I bought it that it just isn't the same to me. Between family, work and life I honestly never drive it for any real purpose other than every couple weeks getting in and going down highway 20 to scare the **** out of myself and return home. With the car in perfect 700hp+ working condition it sat in the garage for 3 full weeks without being started prior to the dyno day and its still sitting where I parked it after and hasn't so much as been started. I'll always love that thing, and I do think it to be the perfect street FD (in my opinion only, as I'm sure others will disagree).
I may also get a wild hair and add a projay, a **** ton more injectors and some more fuel pump and go back for 40+ PSI. Not sure what is going to happen with it yet honestly.
the acceleration must be mind blowing if the tire traction can put it all down
It really is! The car currently has the factory 16s on the rear with a set of the Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S drag radials which are really on 255's. Being drag radials, they do hook and put the power down really well when they're warm and the roads are warm, but even then 1st and 2nd are always pretty useless under hard throttle and 3rd is always sketchy depending on tire/road temperature and how you come into it.
I've got a brand-new-in-box set of Volk CE28SL's with 18x9 +45 fronts and 18x10 +40 rears sitting next to s brand new set of 265/35/18 front and 295/30/18 R888R rears sitting here next to me in my office that will be going on as soon as I can find somewhere local with touchless mounting machine that can rear mount the tires without messing up the wheels.
Given what all I've heard and read about the R888/R888Rs I'm expecting that these should help significantly with traction given their performance and the side increase in the rear. Not to mention they're going to look badass on the car.
It really is! The car currently has the factory 16s on the rear with a set of the Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S drag radials which are really on 255's. Being drag radials, they do hook and put the power down really well when they're warm and the roads are warm, but even then 1st and 2nd are always pretty useless under hard throttle and 3rd is always sketchy depending on tire/road temperature and how you come into it.
I've got a brand-new-in-box set of Volk CE28SL's with 18x9 +45 fronts and 18x10 +40 rears sitting next to s brand new set of 265/35/18 front and 295/30/18 R888R rears sitting here next to me in my office that will be going on as soon as I can find somewhere local with touchless mounting machine that can rear mount the tires without messing up the wheels.
Given what all I've heard and read about the R888/R888Rs I'm expecting that these should help significantly with traction given their performance and the side increase in the rear. Not to mention they're going to look badass on the car.
Skeese
Do you know if that wheel and tire combo will fit stock front and rear fenders(rolled)?
You heard correctly about the R888R's. In the summer there are RWD cars with well over 1000hp that run that tire at the half mile events here in Texas.
Do you know if that wheel and tire combo will fit stock front and rear fenders(rolled)?
You heard correctly about the R888R's. In the summer there are RWD cars with well over 1000hp that run that tire at the half mile events here in Texas.
I'm not worried about the fronts at all given I used to have some RPF1s that were 17x9.5 +38s that had 255/40/17s on them so the change to the 18x9 +45 with a 265/35/18 shouldn't be a game changer given the minor size increase. The change in diameter is basically negligible at +0.22" and given the 7mm change in offset the effective change in width is +0.304" which won't be a game changer given the space I had before.
The rears on the other hand may be an issue, but I'm not sure yet. With the RPF1s set the rears were 18x9.5 +22 and they had Nitto NT05 275/40/17s with what I remember to be plenty of clearance to un-rolled rear fenders.
Considering the offset change from the +22s to the +40s being 18mm = 0.71” and the fact that that the rears are only growing in width by 1.01” the ultimate change to the rears should be +0.3” and looking back at the pictures from the old fit I THINK that may work with maybe just a roll. I had spacers on either the front or the rears with the old RPF1s, but cant remember. Either way the fact they fit with them on one side or the other only helps my case in either application.
I’m no wheel fit expert, so take my info with a grain of salt. That being said though, I’ll make it work if needed. I’m scheduled to get the tires mounted and balanced tomorrow then will fit them up and report back.
Got the new volks on the car finally and holy **** they are badass.
The fit to me seems to be perfect. I'm going to drop the ride height in the front 1/2-3/4" and just leave the rears where they're at. It just looks SO MEATY on front and rear with the 265/295 R888Rs and the wheels look even better on the car than they did new in the boxes all this time. These pictures really don't do it justice as the lighting is shitty in the garage and the car is filthy, but I'm hoping the sun will come back and I'll be able to get it out of the garage for a was/wax/boost session here soon.
