Replacing the twins, recommendations?
10-09-12, 06:32 PM
#1
Replacing the twins, recommendations?
My twins gave out at the track a few weekends ago. In considering replacements, Fritz suggested the t04e. I have a bunch of questions as I'm totally new to the world of single turbos. I should mention that my motor is an Atkins stage 2 street port with 3mm seals, if that affects turbo choice any here.
- The t04e has been out for a long time. Should I be looking at any alternatives and are there any more modern (ball bearing?) turbos on the market these days that produce similar power but with faster spool?
- My goals are literally no more than 350whp, possibly even less. Would keeping the primary injectors and going 1600 secondaries be a good move or is it possible to do this without upgrading them at all?
- I've read about the 50/57/60 trim and different ratios but am not sure which one I should pick. My primary objective is quick spooling and not making max power.
- Water cooled CHRA seems like a good idea for a track car. Thoughts?
- Lots of choices in manifolds out there. Whose is best?
Probably more questions to come. Thanks for humoring my n00bish questions!
- The t04e has been out for a long time. Should I be looking at any alternatives and are there any more modern (ball bearing?) turbos on the market these days that produce similar power but with faster spool?
- My goals are literally no more than 350whp, possibly even less. Would keeping the primary injectors and going 1600 secondaries be a good move or is it possible to do this without upgrading them at all?
- I've read about the 50/57/60 trim and different ratios but am not sure which one I should pick. My primary objective is quick spooling and not making max power.
- Water cooled CHRA seems like a good idea for a track car. Thoughts?
- Lots of choices in manifolds out there. Whose is best?
Probably more questions to come. Thanks for humoring my n00bish questions!
10-09-12, 07:41 PM
#2
IT seems you are being honest with your self in the power goal form.
The to4e is a fantastic turbo. I have had it in a 57 trim and 50 trim ( hks bolt on kit for FC ). And they are superb with the correct hot side. and will yield exactly the power you are looking for at a great price.
Im going to assume you already have an ems as you have a ported motor. If not this will also play a role.
Set your self a budget, and see what fits it.
( but for your power range, the to4e is great with a .96 hotside and adequate manifold and wastegate setup )
another good option is the garret to4s , also know 60-1 ,very nice setup as well, but the to4e felt quicker at the same power level ( 320 hp ) .
Those turbos are in the $ 500-$ 750 dollar range for journal bearing setup, then you have a whole range of new school turbos that im sure will outperform the above, but at a higher starting price point.
I myself am looking at piecing together a to4e setup . ( too bad I cannot get it with the tial turbine side, this is the only reason I just might go with a gt series turbo ) .
The to4e is a fantastic turbo. I have had it in a 57 trim and 50 trim ( hks bolt on kit for FC ). And they are superb with the correct hot side. and will yield exactly the power you are looking for at a great price.
Im going to assume you already have an ems as you have a ported motor. If not this will also play a role.
Set your self a budget, and see what fits it.
( but for your power range, the to4e is great with a .96 hotside and adequate manifold and wastegate setup )
another good option is the garret to4s , also know 60-1 ,very nice setup as well, but the to4e felt quicker at the same power level ( 320 hp ) .
Those turbos are in the $ 500-$ 750 dollar range for journal bearing setup, then you have a whole range of new school turbos that im sure will outperform the above, but at a higher starting price point.
I myself am looking at piecing together a to4e setup . ( too bad I cannot get it with the tial turbine side, this is the only reason I just might go with a gt series turbo ) .
10-10-12, 07:15 AM
#4
57 trim To4E with a 1.0 divided and a water cooled CHRA is what you are after;
Garrett 57/60 Trim TO4E - Turblown Engineering
Garrett 57/60 Trim TO4E - Turblown Engineering
10-10-12, 07:40 AM
#5
I love my Apexi rx6b kit with the 61mm compressor. Im sure Fritz will vouch for that kit as well. 3rd gear pulls starting at 2500 rpms I can hit 13-14lbs by 3200-3300rpms which is much quicker than the stock non-sequential setup. Ill be interested to see what it will do around 17-18lbs in a couple months.
10-10-12, 12:18 PM
#7
Budget is flexible. I'd love to use the stock injectors/fuel pump if possible but there's no problem with replacing them if necessary. Power is not my goal, quick spool / good throttle response is. The car is used for AutoX and open track days. Thanks for the suggestions so far guys. I'm looking for specific facts why one option is better than the other given my engine and goals.
Rich, I'll give you a call when I get out of work.
Thanks!
Rich, I'll give you a call when I get out of work.
Thanks!
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10-10-12, 12:35 PM
#8
You will have to replace the stock pump/injectors, unless you are going to run 6/7psi, and you better have rock solid boost control.
The reason I recommend the To4E is because of the good wheel ratio, it will provide low exhaust back pressure and EGTS which is important for a track driven vehicle, and it "spools fast". Cars we've built in house are generally at full boost by 3000rpms( 4th gear/1bar).
I have tuned the Rx6 turbo and it is generally 200 degrees higher EGTS because it has a large T3 turbine wheel, and a T2 frame turbine housing( both are way too small for a rotary above 5500rpms). The Rx6 usually die early from too much heat transfer to the bearings/bearing housing also, not to mention the stress on the engine). It spools no faster than a To4E. The To4E also is cheaper to buy and rebuild, and rebuild parts are plentiful.
The reason I recommend the To4E is because of the good wheel ratio, it will provide low exhaust back pressure and EGTS which is important for a track driven vehicle, and it "spools fast". Cars we've built in house are generally at full boost by 3000rpms( 4th gear/1bar).
I have tuned the Rx6 turbo and it is generally 200 degrees higher EGTS because it has a large T3 turbine wheel, and a T2 frame turbine housing( both are way too small for a rotary above 5500rpms). The Rx6 usually die early from too much heat transfer to the bearings/bearing housing also, not to mention the stress on the engine). It spools no faster than a To4E. The To4E also is cheaper to buy and rebuild, and rebuild parts are plentiful.
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