turbo-polak

so here it is as of tonight:



i had originally planned to just go with a front mount (r32 gtr fmic is what i got for $100) but then after a little experiementing with a friend, decided to go with a v-mount... very simple... and make a splitter for the air as well as making sure all the air will be directed to the rad/oil cooler/intercooler by blocking off holes and such with foam..



let me know what you guys think!

Rotortuner

Not too bad. I like how your radiator andoil cooler are not blocked at all. And with that set up there is no need to cut holes in the hood like other V mounts. I think your good to go. Drive it hard then feel the outlet. if it gets warm you could always add a water spray kit.

CJG

signofinfinity

nice set up! but can i ask a stupid question? which is the most effective way for cooling, by ram air or venturi effect? in other words, since the IC is facing down wards, will air just be sucked down due to the differential pressures?

I am asking because it seems a nice set up....very worth considering


do keep us posted

G

turbo-polak

well the car will be on coilovers... and quite low... so im hoping there wont be much air underneath..

i am going to attempt to make a splitter... or something to direct some of the air to the IC...

alberto_mg

looks like the intercooler is horizontal... if thats so, then it probably won't be pretty effective. there won't be any air going through it if its horizonatal.

turbo-polak

so you think i should angle it more downwards?

z-beater

I agree I think that the IC is too horizontal. Personally I would tilt the back up and create more of a v if you want something that is less hassle.

Since I do not own a FC I am not sure what kind of clearances you have. This is just one option that I have toyed with. Allows you to tilt the IC creating more of a vmount with out sacrificing oil cooler and radiator position.

To tell you the truth though this is not nearly the best setup though. The angle between the two is way to great. You want to catch the air and in a sense creat a vortex. When the angle is small the air is forced into the desired areas. Just make sure that you do not go too small.

z-beater

Dang that image is way too small. Let me try and figure out how to get a bigger one in there.

z-beater

here lets try try this one.

Since you are running coilovers how close to the ground are you going to be? This sill factor in on how low you will be able to drop the aluminum air splitter as shown in my drawing.

Personally though I do not think that this method is very effective and would personally not use it. That is me though, I am a little **** when I am building something. I want it to function better than everyone elses and work the first time. I hate having to re-do things.

Good luck,
Z

signofinfinity

thats what i was worried about.....that since its too shallow... i towed with a similar useless setup.....
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/mid-mount-ic-modified-452805/

i still have the designs and measurements...... ma ce la vie.... i guess, that one must have a vented hood just to purge the superheated air...

driftex

why not run it like a regular v mount, with the IC up top and the radiator below it slanted back toward the engine so it loooks like this <

Crusader_9x

If you have some sort of air dam right in front of the intercooler to block airflow from getting under the car then air should get sucked through the intercooler.

Rotortuner

Because then he would have to remount his whole radiator with new brackets and would have to mess with his radiator hoses. It doesnt appear that he has the ability to do any tig welding of aluminum in his shop, so basically hes slightly screwed on being able to remount the rad in any sort of presentable fashion.

Heisenberg

iTrader: (3)

I would like to see what it looks like with the front bumper on. I like seeing people try and design there own stuff. I think DIY is alot more fun and satisfying.

Personaly I dont think your going to get much air going through the intercooler with it sitting horizontaly like it is. I would either tilt it up ,or make some sort of air damn like you mentioned to divert some air into the fins.

Thumbs up to you for tryin to DIY.

Crusader_9x

I have seen local people in the past having success with horizontal mounts like that. You just have to use the front bumper or make a front air dam that hangs down a few inches lower than the intercooler to block airflow form getting under the car/intercooler. This creates a low pressure area under the intercooler and air is sucked through it. Its kinda hard to explain but basically you want the only way for air to get under the car is through the intercooler. You dont want the air to be able to go under the front bumper/air dam. I dont know the specifics but I do know that it works if done correctly.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

From your pictures, I don't see how you're getting air to flow through the fins of the IC. This is especially important if your intercooler is on the smallish side: more airflow will make it more efficient. If your intercooler is oversized anyway (like most people's are), you might not notice too much difference between 'enough' airflow and 'not enough' airflow. With enough testing and experimenting, you'll be able to find a good system, but starting with a well-thought-out design will yield better results quicker.


PS, most true race cars implement a diffuser section in front of the heat exchanger (radiator or IC), in order to acheive maximum heat transfer. This is a very crude diagram that I based on an illustration from the 'Bible' of racecar engineering:


Notice that the opening in the bumper is smaller than the heat exchanger. It might seem counterintuitive at first, but if you're familiar with physics, this is Bernoulli's Principle in action, causing the air to be forced through the heat exhanger with greater pressure. The airspeed will decrease (which is OK), and the pressure will increase (which has been proven to yield a more efficient system). I'm not saying that this is the ONLY way to make a good system, but it's a proven design, and you might benefit from trying a few of these concepts.


For more info, read pages 555-559 of Race Car Vehicle Dynamics, by Milliken & Milliken. ( ISBN: 1-56091-526-9 ), you should be able to find it on Amazon.com

For more aero info, http://www.mulsannescorner.com/ is a good website to look at top racecar designs, with good aerodynamics commentary.


Good luck,
-s-

MakoRacing

iTrader: (12)

If your going to put ur I/c down there take a look at HKS's vmount to get an idea. Your I/c Def needs to be at some sort of angle..and just read what the guy above me said

chuck8313BTSDS

how about something like this?
chuck

mwatson184

The problem is, the air needs to make two tight radius 90 degree turns. It will not flow diagonally through the IC core. It should be angled at least 30 degrees.

-Marques

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Here is one thing that you seem to be overlooking: desired temperatures. Your coolant and oil don't need to get any colder than 180-220*F, but most of us want our intake air temperatures to be as cool as possible.


To me, this means that the IC should be given as much cold air as possible, and if the radiator gets slightly warmer air that's not such a big deal. Remember that the factory setup puts the A/C condensor in front of the radiator, so unless you've installed a smaller radiator, it shouldn't hurt the radiator to see some warmer air, as long as you've got sufficient airflow. This is where you'll need to do your own measurements: I don't know how hot the compressed air leaving your turbo will be, that will depend on your individual setup.



Also, don't forget the other side of the airflow situation: how is air leaving the engine bay? EVERY well-designed racecar has exit vents to balance their intake vents. Look at any street-car based series, and you'll find that most cars have had hood louvres and vents added to them, but the front bumper openings remain about the same size.

Good luck,
-s-

turbo-polak

i want to start off by thanking you for your input.... but i must say you used some nice words there

but im pretty sure i get the overall message...

the car will be used a lot for drifting, and i was worried about low speed air flow through a fmic... thats why i wanted to let as much air get to the rad as possible.... unobstructed by a large fmic like i have....(24x10x3" thick)

still think i should put it up front vs. down low?

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

First off, I don't mean to be blunt or insult you. Sorry if my post came across as rude.


For drifting, I would almost just assume you won't get much airflow at all, and try to use the biggest heat exhangers possible, with fans. For instance, here is the Rotary Power FD.
http://www.importtuner.com/features/0507_it_fd3s/

I've spoken to the builder, Jeff McCall, and he said the car hasn't had overheating problems. A couple things you might not see in that article:
1. He has modified the coolant passages in the rotor housings for better flow and heat exhange.
2. Each of those HUGE oil coolers have fans pulling air through them.

I'm still a big fan of vented hoods. Hot air rises, and a hood vent will let a lot of heat out of your engine bay even if the car is sitting completely still.

-s-

turbo-polak

nono, i wasnt saying you were being rude.. i was commenting on the complicated words.... like counterintuitive

turbo-polak

do you think my IC is a good size? my mods are in my sig...

i will be making some sort of a vented hood.... i havent read up much on them though...

but i was thinking of a big opening just after the rad, and two on each side of the hood closest to the raintray.....

or i could just take my hood off at the drift events!

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

thier is a reason all 'V ' mounts are located with the IC, AT the hood.. that's the point of greatest pressure differential. mounting it low like that, AND droping the car is going to reduce the air flow through the IC tremendously. Personally I think it's a lazy place to put the IC and the fabrication is only going to lead to you running over the IC when it falls off.. if you don't have the desire, funds, equipment to do it right then at least bring in someone who does.

Of course you could setup an FEA to work out the flow mechanics required to get the right conditions.. but if you do that.. then you've lost most of your front end downforce..

good luck with that setup, your going to need it.