need some advice choosing a turbo...
02-22-05, 02:14 AM
#1
need some advice choosing a turbo...
i am very in need of advice as to which turbo to upgrade to. i already have a stock hybrid (t04b wheel in stock comp housing, stock hotside) and it made about 300whp on 14-15psi.
i basically have decided on something from the t04 family cause they are dependable, cheap, proven, and come in alot of different sizes... i am wanting to run low boost and make about 300-320whp on 10-12psi or so i figured a t04e would be a good base. but what i really need advice with is:
which trim t04e?
what kind of hotside (a/r and wheel trim) do i need for very quick spool that will still flow enough to hold boost in the high rpms (mostly just a lower-medium boost levels)
can anyone give me some help?
i basically have decided on something from the t04 family cause they are dependable, cheap, proven, and come in alot of different sizes... i am wanting to run low boost and make about 300-320whp on 10-12psi or so i figured a t04e would be a good base. but what i really need advice with is:
which trim t04e?
what kind of hotside (a/r and wheel trim) do i need for very quick spool that will still flow enough to hold boost in the high rpms (mostly just a lower-medium boost levels)
can anyone give me some help?
02-22-05, 02:20 AM
#2
i also found some cheap t04b's on turbocalculator.com
here's the direct link to said t04b's: http://www.turbocalculator.com/view-...ct=002-001-101
these look nice, but seem to be horrible mismatched between the turbine and compressor housings...
here's the direct link to said t04b's: http://www.turbocalculator.com/view-...ct=002-001-101
these look nice, but seem to be horrible mismatched between the turbine and compressor housings...
02-22-05, 08:48 AM
#3
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
given your requirements:
320 rwhp
10-12 psi
here are your needs flow-wise:
320 rwhp X 1.176= 376 flywheel hp
376 X 1.86= 700 cfm or 48 lb minute
while some of the larger to4E family will flow better than 48 lbs none will flow it at 12 psi.
the to4E 57 will flow 42 lbs at 12 psi at 60% efficiency 2.23X 3.2 wheel
the To4B 62-1 will flow as much as 57 lbs at 12 psi. 2.441X 3 wheel.
look for a hotside that is plus or minus within 10% of the average area of the coldside
to4e 57 cold side average area 5.97
to4b 62-1 5.87
t3 stage 2 4.33
t3 stage 3 4.52
t3 stage 5 5.408
t4 O 5.422
t4 P 5.894
howard coleman
320 rwhp
10-12 psi
here are your needs flow-wise:
320 rwhp X 1.176= 376 flywheel hp
376 X 1.86= 700 cfm or 48 lb minute
while some of the larger to4E family will flow better than 48 lbs none will flow it at 12 psi.
the to4E 57 will flow 42 lbs at 12 psi at 60% efficiency 2.23X 3.2 wheel
the To4B 62-1 will flow as much as 57 lbs at 12 psi. 2.441X 3 wheel.
look for a hotside that is plus or minus within 10% of the average area of the coldside
to4e 57 cold side average area 5.97
to4b 62-1 5.87
t3 stage 2 4.33
t3 stage 3 4.52
t3 stage 5 5.408
t4 O 5.422
t4 P 5.894
howard coleman
02-22-05, 12:03 PM
#4
ok howard, lets knock it down to about 300whp instead of 320... i'm kind of confused with all those numbers you posted.
how do i know what is plus or minus 10% of the average area of the coldside? what kind of hotside a/r's are we talking here? the most pressure i will run is about 14psi and pumpgas.
my MAIN goal is to have around 300whp on low boost... which compressor and which hotside wheel and a/r would be best for that (while keeping quick spool) ?
the t04b 62-1 with a p-trim turbine? but what about the hotside A/R ?
while all of these numbers are useful, i'm really looking for a/r's and trims that would be best, so i'll know which turbo and which specs i need to be looking for when buying the turbo (relatively soon)
how do i know what is plus or minus 10% of the average area of the coldside? what kind of hotside a/r's are we talking here? the most pressure i will run is about 14psi and pumpgas.
my MAIN goal is to have around 300whp on low boost... which compressor and which hotside wheel and a/r would be best for that (while keeping quick spool) ?
the t04b 62-1 with a p-trim turbine? but what about the hotside A/R ?
while all of these numbers are useful, i'm really looking for a/r's and trims that would be best, so i'll know which turbo and which specs i need to be looking for when buying the turbo (relatively soon)
Last edited by jacobcartmill; 02-22-05 at 12:07 PM.
02-22-05, 02:49 PM
#5
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
"while all of these numbers are useful, i'm really looking for a/r's and trims that would be best, so i'll know which turbo and which specs i need to be looking for..."
uh, no.
firstly, i applaud you for pursuing a reasonable hp goal. generally i hear.... "i want 500 rwhp on low boost and reliability is an important option."
that said:
after you have set a hp target and a boost target.... the first thing you look at w regard to turbo selection is AIR FLOW. generally expressed in lbs/min or cfm. 10 lbs/minute equals 144.71 cfm. trim and a/r's come later.
it take approx 1.86 cfm to make one rotary flywheel hp. you lose approx 15% between the flywheel and the rear wheels.
i did the math for you above.
the next thing you should be looking for is efficiency... it is stated on the compressor maps. ideally you want as high a number as possible... certainly above 60%. turbos heat the air as they compress it. heated air has less oxygen and makes less power. cool is cool.
the next step is sizing the airflow driver... the turbine wheel. generally it's good to be within 10% plus or minus the compressor.
10% of what you ask. take the large and small measurements of each wheel and solve for each diameter's area. Area= radius squared times 3.1416. add both together and divide by 2. you now have the average area of the wheel. i did the math above.
generally most people run a similar a/r for each compressor wheel. ditto turbines although there is a bit of lattitude.
there are lots of turbo shops out there some are even pretty good. i happen to like Majestic turbo in waco texas and have dealt w them for a few years w good results. kevin draper is the guy to talk to. he is a racer as well as a turbo expert, having built the turbo for the bonneville Racing Beat fd that literally left the planet earth at a fd record speed. he is very competitive pricewise and deals w the journal bearing type of turbo you are looking for. 800 231 5566. mention my name.
good luck,
howard coleman
uh, no.
firstly, i applaud you for pursuing a reasonable hp goal. generally i hear.... "i want 500 rwhp on low boost and reliability is an important option."
that said:
after you have set a hp target and a boost target.... the first thing you look at w regard to turbo selection is AIR FLOW. generally expressed in lbs/min or cfm. 10 lbs/minute equals 144.71 cfm. trim and a/r's come later.
it take approx 1.86 cfm to make one rotary flywheel hp. you lose approx 15% between the flywheel and the rear wheels.
i did the math for you above.
the next thing you should be looking for is efficiency... it is stated on the compressor maps. ideally you want as high a number as possible... certainly above 60%. turbos heat the air as they compress it. heated air has less oxygen and makes less power. cool is cool.
the next step is sizing the airflow driver... the turbine wheel. generally it's good to be within 10% plus or minus the compressor.
10% of what you ask. take the large and small measurements of each wheel and solve for each diameter's area. Area= radius squared times 3.1416. add both together and divide by 2. you now have the average area of the wheel. i did the math above.
generally most people run a similar a/r for each compressor wheel. ditto turbines although there is a bit of lattitude.
there are lots of turbo shops out there some are even pretty good. i happen to like Majestic turbo in waco texas and have dealt w them for a few years w good results. kevin draper is the guy to talk to. he is a racer as well as a turbo expert, having built the turbo for the bonneville Racing Beat fd that literally left the planet earth at a fd record speed. he is very competitive pricewise and deals w the journal bearing type of turbo you are looking for. 800 231 5566. mention my name.
good luck,
howard coleman
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02-23-05, 02:29 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by jacobcartmill
yes i am looking to sell it.
"..........and it made about 300whp on 14-15psi."
then you said:
"ok howard, lets knock it down to about 300whp instead......the most pressure i will run is about 14psi and pumpgas."
You're changing turbos to make the same power at 1psi less boost pressure?
-jb
02-24-05, 12:51 AM
#9
i am trying to get a better turbo setup. i dont need more than 320whp, but i want the turbo to hold boost til redline (stock turbine wheel sucks), i want the turbo farther away from the LIM (for heat purposes), and i want an external wastegate (for no boost creep).
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