btleier

Hey guys, need some help. I've been experiencing some problems with my car, and I'm having a hard time figuring them out. A little background on the car. This summer I went single turbo with my car. Car is running on AEM. Car was taken to a professional tuner, tuned to 425whp @18psi on e85. Shortly after I got my car back, I had a turbo failure (used turbo). Turbo was sent off to precision for a rebuild. As soon as I got it back I noticed at idle the exhaust manifold was glowing orange. Another issue I've had from the beginning is the car starts very hard. Lots of cranking, with some backfiring before it will finally come to life. Most time the car won't idle property either, dying off if the rpms drop below 1000 rpms. I'm just not sure where to start. I moved, and replaced the IAT. But I don't know what else to do from here. I've heard alot of people make comments about my timing. I don't know how to check that. The FSM (G-17) only shows how to do it with a Mazda scan tool. I've also read it could be a leaky injector dumping raw fuel into the exhaust, and causing how EGTs. How can I check my timing, and where should I go from here. I appreciate everyone's help. Below is my full mod list:

Aftermarket parts...
18x8 and 18x9 Work emotion wheels in bronze - flawless condition
JIC FLTA2 wheels
JIC toe links
Polyurethane rear differential bushings
ACT 4 puck clutch
AEM EMS
AEM Ignition
AEM UEGO wideband
Blitz water temp
Blitz boost gauge
Sparco steering wheel
Pettit short shifter
custom tubular manifold
tial 44mm wg
tial bov
huge custom vmount ic
large koyo aluminum radiator
3" ic piping
precision t4 pt67 turbo
aluminum ast
dual walbro 255lph fuel pumps
850cc primary injectors
1600cc secondary injectors
aeromotive fpr fuel pressure set at 45psi
dyno tuned 425whp @ 18psi on e85 - tuned by Joey at Excessive Autosports - Sioux Falls, SD

btleier

forgot to mention I tried dropping fuel pressure tonight to see if it was too much fuel, or a flooding issue, but that didn't help...

btleier

is the next step to change injector o-rings?

killahrx7

not sure how to check the ignition timing on a 3rd gen engine, but the glowing of the manifold could be a sign of ignition timing too retarded. the you should take it back to the tuner and have him check your timing. 425 at 18lbs of boost kinda low for e85 when you probably can make the same at a lower boost level on pump gas. check timing. just my 2 cents.

btleier

I've heard it could be a sign of ignition timing too retarded... but I don't know how to check it. big problem is my tuner is a solid 8 hours away. are these power levels really low? you're the first person I've had say that. I know he mentioned the timing was very conservative, so that I could have a safe, everyday tune.

btleier

would it help if I could log my car at idle, and post the log? I'm not sure how to do that, as I am unfamiliar with AEM, but I'm sure it's something I could figure out. also, would a wideband be helpful at idle? I have an AEM Uego, just not installed, but I'm not sure how much it will help at idle.

BDC

+1 and good post on the retarded timing. All the symptoms show it from what I can tell.

Let me ask you this, btleier: Along with the symptoms, are you seeing poor throttle response? I am unfamiliar with the trigger/ignition setup of the AEM ECU, but is it possible that it, or the rest of the tuned map, got zapped somehow or reset to default, therefore throwing the timing part off?

B

btleier

throttle response was never an issue before. however since I have run into the issue of the manifold glowing at idle I have not taken the care on the street as I did not want to cause any undue harm. I called me tuner to ask that same question, and he assured me that AEM never just losses it's tune, and I have never he plugged the cord into my laptop.

well, all signs point to retarded timing... how can I check. obviously I need to check if my ignition timing is set properly, and then need to look into my timing maps to see what my tuner has set at idle, or that rpm point? but I don't know how to do that.

BDC

If the AEM unit allows the transferral of maps, then I'd recommend getting back in touch with him so he can send you the map file and then have you (or instruct you) to re-load it back into the ECU just in case.

Otherwise, as another member has mentioned, there's no way to adjust the timing manually on the 13BREW block (it has two crank triggers bolted to the front cover that work based off of a trigger wheel that's bolted to the front of the crank) so it'd only have to be done on the ECU, assuming there's nothing goofy going on like a malfunctioned leading ignitor/coil pack or something else hardware-related.

B

btleier

I appreciate your input. so what would you recommend doing from here? I'm tempted to take the care back to the tuner, but it is over 8 hours away, and that trip is costly.

what all can I checked that is hardware related? coils? tps? what else. I want to eliminate as much as possible before I spend the money to ship the car back to the tuner. I really do appreciate your guys help, and input.

btleier

my car is tuned on the e85, and the one big reason why I don't think it's a lost tune, is the car would not even run prior to a tune on the e85. I will see if there's a way to double check my tune also.

ZAN_TUNING

iTrader: (1)

arggg, i have had so many ignition issues with the AEM ems one unit actually had to be sent back in.

(didn't read all posts) you checked the timing yet?

btleier

I don't really know how to. The ignition timing is not manually adjustable, so I just need to check my timing table inside of the AEM? I have no idea how to do that. Can anyone help with how I'd do that.

btleier

do I just go into it, and go to ignition, and then go to table? and screen print that?

BDC

Could always physically verify that the lead plug wires are sparking while cranking or something (disable the fuel pump prior to doing this). It's sure as heck tell you if the lead ignitor/coil is working and knock one thing out.

B

ZAN_TUNING

iTrader: (1)

agreed, just make sure you are actually getting spark at the moment

btleier

k. I will do this right away tonight, and post up my results.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

ugh my opinion of AEM electronics has steadily declined... my AEM UEGO wideband had a broken display and the tech support guys refused to actually fix it until I complained to the customer service department.

it sucks because the AEM EMS on paper is a better ECU than the PFC, but for our cars a lot of people have significant problems.

btleier

a step closer... yet confused. so with your guy's advice I put the car up on the lift to check for spark with each wire. I used the stick a spark plug in the end, and ground it to the block. 3/4 sparked. the one not sparking being the front trailing. so I pulled off my intake manifold, and removed the coil. I pulled out the service manual, and it says that it should test under 1 ohm if it's good. I tested it... it stats at 1.1-1.2 ohms, and settles to .8. however, then I was at the parts store, and they're gauge read it at 1.3 ohm, and holding strong. is this an immediately replace coil? I tried to test my wire, but the leads can't reach deep enough into the wire to catch the metal, so I'll have to find another tomorrow. any feeback on this?

btleier

any reason why I couldn't swap the known good coil(my other trailing coil) into this ones place to test whether it is the coil or something before it liking wiring?

btleier

bump, bump, bump... looking for some help before tomorrow.

btleier

UPDATE:

was able to test the 2nd trailing coil in the 1st spot today, and it sparked like normal. new coil on the way. hope this helps anyone else with the same problem.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I'm not sure that this is your problem, although it is 'a' problem. Trailing plugs are for cleanup, and don't do the majority of the combustion.

I discovered not too long ago that the power wire for my front trailing coil had been severed, thus that plug hadnt been firing for quite a while. This included lots of WOT pulls and a ~3000 mile round trip down to the Deals Gap event and back. Looking back, the car was down on power a bit, but nothing else, none of the symptoms you're experiencing.

ZAN_TUNING

iTrader: (1)

^^^ you beat me to it hahaha^^^

still tho... if the leading were firing properly the car should still crank and run just fine.

i used to not even run trailing ignition at all and never had an issue like this. i think it's something deeper, but lets hope it isnt.

btleier

boooooooooooooooooo.