PBK7

Well i thought it might be useful to those researching or looking for single setups to learn from my experience.(93R1)

We made 417@19psi/6500rpm(pumpgas) and BLOWN rear rotor on the last dynopull!

Car has :
1. Streetport with atkins seals
2. Power FC
3. T04s
4. 850primaries, 1680 secondaries
5.Walbro intank pump( rewired)/FPR
6. xs power intercooler ( stock mount)
7. 50mm wastegate
8. Fluidyne rad/aftermarket fans
9. 9's leading and trailing

We concluded that the weakness of the system was the size/efficiency of the Intercooler at that power level. Intake temps were high whilst water and afr's seemed in check.
Whilst i'm the first to admit we were pushing the limits for Pump Gas, i believe with more efficient cooling ( and less back to back pulls) 400 reliable RWHP is possible for this setup.

Well we're going back up with a larger intercooler in the stock location (v mount) and possible a second fuel pump. Also the HKS twinpower. Aiming at 400 reliable again!

iceman4357

iTrader: (2)

You could run 19psi, just run alky or water injection into the car. Im at 20psi with alky injection on 93 pump

rotaryinspired

iTrader: (3)

Wouldn't hurt to run 10.5 or 11 in the trailing. THe plugs spark actually gets hotter than the leading 9 plug due to the smaller hole. Not something you want on a high boost application. I always wondered why they where cooler until I found this out. It makes perfect sense.

Good luck

ProjectD

iTrader: (15)

Congrats on the #s but sorry about the aftermath what exactly were the intake temps, AFR's, and octane of the pump ionyour area?

4CN Air

iTrader: (7)

19psi is too much for straight pump gas (what octane can you get?)

I'd also run 10's all the way around for plugs, or at least in the trailing.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Thats also a small intercooler your using. Your charge temps probably got too hot with the amount of boost you were running and it detonated. As stated, you should used some sort of water/meth injection running that kind of boost. This would also compensate for your small intercooler.

PBK7

We get 95 at best, but avg is 93 octane. i don't have exact #'s for the temps but the afr's were conservative 11.5 at worst case.

Ernie, were replacing the IC, but my preference is not to use Auxillary Injection ..even if it means running lower numbers!
10's may not be a bad idea!

fritts

iTrader: (5)

If you are using the temperatures that the PFC gives you, don't trust them. That sensor is not an open element sensor which does not react fast enough for air temperatures. The sensor depending on location just heat soaks based on what its mounted to. I have the XS power intercooler running a 60-1 for a while and now a 62-1 @~16 psi. I am using GM open element sensors in my intercooler piping before and after the intercooler. During boost runs I see efficiencies in the high 70-80%. Which is not bad for a "cheap ebay" intercooler. I do have a custom fiberglass duct though that is very well sealed. So I highly doubt its the IC is the problem.

BDC

The first weak-link is the fuel. It almost always is, without exception, on these street-driven cars that aim for and exceed 400hp when sticking to using pump gas. I was thinking about this on the way home today, actually. The problem is the compromise of the charge temperature that shoots up into the stratosphere during the compression stroke. Pump fuels are notoriously volatile and unstable and what happens is that fuel, during compression and prior to spark, essentially explodes on its own due to the heat created. The replies given here regarding intercooling and intake air temperatures (IAT's) will have an effect, but not a substantial enough one to counteract or workaround the problem with the fuel itself. In plain English, it's just not designed for the highly-modified RE environment that we regularly subject it to.

B

sk8world

iTrader: (5)

dont get Brian going on this again!!!! BTW turn your phone on BDC!!!

zinx

iTrader: (3)

Those are good points, the one thing about pump gas is you are never 100% sure what you are pumping is actually what you think you are pumping. You never know when some gas delivery guy put 87 in the 93 tank. The answer to running that much boost on pump gas is to add a lay of protection like methanol/water injection. Its been proven time and time again, and not only with rotaries but many FI applications.

PBK7

Must admit we may have gotten a bit Horsepower high as the numbers rose steadily with the tunning. I did read a very fine article by BDC about "why our rotaries blow up and how to solve the problem", infact i circulated to my fellow rotary owners and my mechanic!
Nevertheless, I'm inviting comments now regarding the attainability of 400RWHP on my particular setup.(without AI) Infact i'd prefer to make the dyno numbers on C16 and have a lesser figure for street driving!

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Lose the Atkins seals and go with aviation, add another fuel pump and install a meth injection kit. On a good street port and that turbo you can make 430 RWHP at 15 lbs of boost.
Dont waste your time trying to do that on just pump gas as its risky.

Jason

BoostedFd3s

iTrader: (3)

I would like to read this article myself. You have a link to this article?

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Why loose the Atkins seals? I made 735rwhp on them with about 20+dyno pulls and 10+passes down the dragstrip with Atkins seals.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Didn't you at one time run the RA Super Seals or are you running them now ?

rotaryinspired

iTrader: (3)

^^^
Just shows tuning is the most important thing w/ the rotary.

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Atkins are to soft and dont hold up to any detonation. Aviation will take some abuse without cracking.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Are you talking about the RA Super Seals ?

crispeed

Why?

varendra7

hey...i heard about that man....sorry to hear..
yeah i was pretty surprised to hear a REW making that kinda power on the gas we get here in trini.
nice figures tho....i stopped at 362whp@ 18psi...AFR about 10.8...i was pretty afraid to go any further...i kinda decided on a boost and AFR, and whatever power i made i just stuck with it..
i made 420whp @ 23psi but on race fuel tho...but i ent brave enuff to try to make that on pump....hehehe
good luck in your next dyno session..

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Both the regular and super seals. From our testing the super seals can take a lot of detonation without cracking.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

I am confused. Is Trinidad Gas that different? I have been running 18psi on Pump gas for years now, making well over 450rwhp. This is in nice HOT, HUMID and HEATSOAKED as *** South Florida too.

My friends call me a ***** for not running 20+ on pump gas.

I guess it is all in the tuning.

zayrx7

Are you still running them now?

sk8world

iTrader: (5)

More of a joke with Brian as we have spent a ton of time on this subject..

I have read-heard of many making nice power on pump gas without any water or meth added. Some say its i the tuning but how can this be? Auto ignition is going to play a role I would think no matter how much pump gas you pure in? Or are these numbers just made on the edge and not backed up over and over? With motor failure soon to follow?

BTW any chance of you coming to the Speed For Sale event in AL? Your name was mentioned before..