Mpt70 dyno results (kind of disapointed) tuning question.
02-19-09, 09:51 AM
#101
Excellent, you're welcome. I noticed last night when I cracked open an S4 keg that the keyway is @ 90* (or 3 o'clock when looking strait at it) @ TDC. How that translates to other shafts, I don't know. What that means for the front hubs, I don't know. I would think Mazda would make something common between them all, perhaps it's the keyway @ 90* that makes TDC and the hubs are all slightly different as Classic found. Paul Yaw's article seems to indicate that all e-shafts are at 90* @ TDC.
Man o man, I hate this subject 
02-19-09, 10:16 AM
#102
I think that is what he is saying. it's 90 degreed counter clockwise. IE it points twards the exhaust when the motor is at TDC. The angle depends on what end of the motor you are looking at 
As a standard everyone sould relate to setting in the drivers seat, from there it is in fact 90 degrees 
As a standard everyone sould relate to setting in the drivers seat, from there it is in fact 90 degrees
02-19-09, 12:40 PM
#103
I think that is what he is saying. it's 90 degreed counter clockwise. IE it points twards the exhaust when the motor is at TDC. The angle depends on what end of the motor you are looking at As a standard everyone sould relate to setting in the drivers seat, from there it is in fact 90 degrees
As a standard everyone sould relate to setting in the drivers seat, from there it is in fact 90 degrees
02-19-09, 01:04 PM
#104
if your putting down 458rwhp @ 20psi and it hasn't exploded ... it aint knocking and pinging... then the timing is probably very close to where it needs to be
and your AFR's are in the 9's then it aint your fuel system... technically if your really are in the 9's then you are pumping too much fuel into the engine..
but your engine is running smooth????? with no ill effects
I think its pretty clear it's the wideband
and your AFR's are in the 9's then it aint your fuel system... technically if your really are in the 9's then you are pumping too much fuel into the engine..
but your engine is running smooth????? with no ill effects
I think its pretty clear it's the wideband
02-19-09, 02:51 PM
#105
BDC Motorsports
Excellent, you're welcome. I noticed last night when I cracked open an S4 keg that the keyway is @ 90* (or 3 o'clock when looking strait at it) @ TDC. How that translates to other shafts, I don't know. What that means for the front hubs, I don't know. I would think Mazda would make something common between them all, perhaps it's the keyway @ 90* that makes TDC and the hubs are all slightly different as Classic found. Paul Yaw's article seems to indicate that all e-shafts are at 90* @ TDC.
B
02-19-09, 10:19 PM
#107
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It's the same for the other shafts and yes 9 o'clock exactly is TDC on front rotor when facing the motor from the front. The indexing key with respect the front rotor bearing journal DOES NOT CHANGE. That's why we can always use that 9 o'clock (270*) as a point of reference for front rotor TDC. The stuff that does change is the hubs and pulleys. Get a mismatch of those and then you've got timing marks that are marched off either too advanced or too retarded.
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The front cover would need to be matched as well though..... no? If the pins are offset differently, you could have a matched hub/pulley combo but if the pin in the timing cover is in the wrong spot, you're still screwed.
02-26-09, 06:42 AM
#108
Well just got the car back yesterday. I haven't had time to check it out but I'll do it this weekend and let you guys know. Kilo put a rev limit of about 3k on it so the guy shipping the car wouldn't go crazy with it. I just drove it about 1/2 of a mile home from were the guy shiped it too and I gotta say, this is the first experience with a 6 puck unsprung clutch and good heavy duty pressure plate. I love the feel The on / off clutch feel will take a bit of getting use to but I do like it I can tell it's a different beast all together from my last street port/ bnr stage IV setup, lol. Definitely a raw hp feeling which I can tell I am going to enjoy thoroughly! And all this operating at only 1-3krpm lol. I'll let you guys know more later on when the rev limit is off and I get a few things worked out with this 9.6:1 afr stuff. I'm also going to hook up the alky injection and start using it as I think it will help keep the motor alive longer.
The on / off clutch feel will take a bit of getting use to but I do like it I can tell it's a different beast all together from my last street port/ bnr stage IV setup, lol. Definitely a raw hp feeling which I can tell I am going to enjoy thoroughly! And all this operating at only 1-3krpm lol. I'll let you guys know more later on when the rev limit is off and I get a few things worked out with this 9.6:1 afr stuff. I'm also going to hook up the alky injection and start using it as I think it will help keep the motor alive longer.
Last edited by hondahater; 02-26-09 at 06:46 AM.
02-26-09, 01:41 PM
#109
Is the alcohol system 50/50 or straight alcohol? Keep in mind when you start using the alcohol the car will be even richer until you pull some fuel from the base map. But if your timing is way off as everyone is speculating then you will need to retune everything anyway to get your afr's where they normally like to be once the timing is straightened out.
02-26-09, 04:13 PM
#110
Yeah I'm going to need to do a few things to it before I drive it, that's for sure. It's a 50/50 mix with two m10 nozzles. I can probably get away with one now since I'm not going to be using a ton of alky like I first speculated. I may just get like to m5 or m7 nozzles to replace these.
03-09-09, 08:19 PM
#111
Well I took the car out on saturday to run her for the first time since getting it back. I enjoyed the power for sure and it got sideways in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. I had a blast but then reality hit when I got out of the car to find my dip stick was about 2 quarts over the full mark. A rich mixture for sure!
03-09-09, 11:28 PM
#114
this sounds pretty tricky but, i think its some sort of a timing issue. for you car to be running smoothly at 9.5's afr's. seems pretty advanced.
this may help some since this happend with my 240sx. first dyno pull 281whp at 9.xx afr across the board. i leaned it out to 10.5 afr and it would skip and the dyno was very jagged. found out it was my crank angle sensor. my timing was over 20 degree's advanced. whats funny is that the car ran smooth under boost even with the crazy rich afr. im guessing you have a similar issue. your mechanical timing is off. i doubt 2 widebands are off, and i also doubt you are not getting enough fuel. hense 9.5 afr's. check the mechanical timing on that thing.
*also post up the dyno sheet with afr's if possible.
this may help some since this happend with my 240sx. first dyno pull 281whp at 9.xx afr across the board. i leaned it out to 10.5 afr and it would skip and the dyno was very jagged. found out it was my crank angle sensor. my timing was over 20 degree's advanced. whats funny is that the car ran smooth under boost even with the crazy rich afr. im guessing you have a similar issue. your mechanical timing is off. i doubt 2 widebands are off, and i also doubt you are not getting enough fuel. hense 9.5 afr's. check the mechanical timing on that thing.
*also post up the dyno sheet with afr's if possible.
05-14-09, 07:07 AM
#120
car is over at BDC right now, motor has been rebuilt again for the 3rd time now 
and I fully expect the car to be running fine when he gets done with it. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get it back.
edit: 3 engine rebuilds and I've only driven it once... This is what happens when you make a costly mistake.
and I fully expect the car to be running fine when he gets done with it. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get it back.edit: 3 engine rebuilds and I've only driven it once... This is what happens when you make a costly mistake.
05-14-09, 08:19 AM
#122
Well looks like all the black apex seals that were put in with the last rebuild had flattened out or rather bent inwards causing low compression. Also bearings were toasted on a rotor and a stationary gear. Also rotating assembly was off by 80 grams on one side. Um.... as far as the blow by I'm not really sure. It looks like the side seals were fine so I'm guessing the extremely rich mixture was the culprit.
05-16-09, 12:46 AM
#124
BDC Motorsports
I'm not sure but I suspect it was just chamber heat that caused three of the six apex seals to warp. Makes sense given its low power output for the boost it was running alongside the way too rich mixtures. I think perhaps unbeknownst to the previous builder, the base timing was off as the front hub and crank pulley combination used had the timing marks shifted off. I don't know which direction they were off but it was by about 8-10*. I also don't know about the tuning done on the Microtech.
The reaming and machine work done on the motor however was very impressive. He had 8 additional dowel pins added and it was a stellar job.
B
The reaming and machine work done on the motor however was very impressive. He had 8 additional dowel pins added and it was a stellar job.
B