ah man! we finally get some numbers I don't care what anyone says that car is going to be a monster on the street as it is right now!!!!

did you ever find out what dyno he uses?

also you very well could be that rich, with the ignition you have it will burn that mess pretty well. i always tune my blow-thru 12a's pretty rich with great success. just gotta have the ignition for it and you do!!! NOT to say that it needs to be that rich tho

this tune is all pump gas right? maybe he was getting the spitting and sputtering because the batch of 93 he threw in there may not be that good. i've had cars where i tune them on the dyno and start getting a miss at higher boost only to find out the owner put 89 in there!!!!!!!! AHHHHH! i know Kilo wouldn't do that, but you get what i'm saying. a bad batch of 93 will do that.

just some things to look at i guess. at least your car is running and pretty strong at that!!! it's all good buddy, you will enjoy it soon enough WOOHOOOOO!

 

It sounds like AFR's are off to me as well.

But there are so many things that contradict each other. For instance if it really is running that rich that would explain the lower then expected numbers, and why the fuel pressure is dropping off more then it should. But that doesn't explain why it won't run right at leaner AFR's and that its perfectly happy being so rich when it should be sputtering and just not running right.

On the other hand, if the AFR's are incorrect, and its really running in the 10's or 11's then that means your power #'s are pretty accurate. It also means there is some other unknown issues going on with your fuel supply. But that explains why it won't run right at leaner afr's.

Do you have the stock wiring or has it all been rewired? That makes a huge difference in pump performance.

 

Ship me the car!! All kidding aside, lets talk sometime.. You are never on AIM anymore.

 

This would've been my very first though, check to make sure the wideband is calibrated

Or maybe from sitting for four years some rust/contamination got into the tank and clogged the sock. That pump should be PLENTY for your injectors unless the fuel pressure is way to high. Good way to check to see if the pump is adequate is add up the CC's of all four injectors and make sure it's under the limit of what the pump can flow at it's rated pressure. I cannot remember off the top of my head what the 044 flows but I know it's an absolute ton

Well, kahren is considered the man by a group of people too but when a close friend of mine took his TII rebuild with a few hundred miles on it with only an Rtek to get tuned, he blew the thing up within a few minutes. There's a big difference in tuning N/A motor's vs turbo motors

MAP sensor should have no effect on how the engine runs at given AFR's. It could give wrong readings and play with the fuel that's being injected, but a MAP sensor should have no bearing on how the car runs at a given AFR

Agreed, I think one problem needs to be fixed at a time.

The one thing that I would have him check that no one has brought up is the timing being used, but more importantly to make sure that the timing is set properly. It's POSSIBLE that he just grabbed a known good ignition map and loaded it in. However, the CAS was off a tooth making the timing VERY advanced. In order to make the car run right with the "known good ignition map" and "properly set CAS", the flame speed needed to be slowed way down hence why it's running good at ridiculously rich AFR's.

 

Hey man what's up? I was wondering when I'd hear from you Yeah I bet 458hp is not bad at all! I'm just worried about the rich *** mixture witch may lead to problems sooner than later so I'd like to take care of it before I have to put another 5k into a new motor I still don't know what dyno he used but I'll be getting the car back shortly and will have the dyno sheet with the type of dyno that he used. So what mixture did you use on your blow threw setups and were they at all close to the 9.6 that Kilo is using? The mixture is all pump gas with no alky, water or race gas mixed in. Thanks for the info and the post man I do appreciate hearing from a fellow mpt70 guy I'll let you know how it pans out.

 

that is exactly my line of thinking as well. I've gone over every theoretical problem in my head over and over and one way only explains half of the problem and the other only explains the other half so I will be theroughly confused until I figure this issue out. I will be getting another wideband sensor, another pump, and checking the fuel filter when it comes back to me. The wiring has completely been redone so I don't think that is the problem unless I need bigger guage wire or something.

 

Rofl, first 8k takes it yeah I need to get back on AIM I haven't had it in years. What's your AIM name? I may still have it if I reinstall AIM

 

[QUOTE=NotTTT;8970519]Well the Zeitronix uses auto calibration and I would suspect, although it would be an assumption, that the guys at the dyno know how to use a wide band. Of course I could be mistaken



Well I took out the old tank and now I've got an 8 gallon fuel cell in there so I don't think it could be rust, also that is part of why the car was down besides changing everything with my motor setup. Also It's an external pump so I have an external pre fp filter and external post fp filter and I will check both when I get the car back.



Yeah but I'm sure he's tuned quite a few world class turbo motors before, I think he even used to tune the atomic bannana which is that 7.28 second rx8.

Ok I appreciate the info on that, that was just one of the many different possibilities running through my mind.



Interesting... THat's another thing I will check when it comes in. The setup is a bit different being that I'm using 13bre pullies on an s5 block but the timing on both 13bre and 13bt are both the same so I don't think it is a problem and I would emagine a good tuner looks at timing however you never know. Thanks again for the ideas.

 

Jrat02

 

That could be your problem right there! If I'm not mistaken, the timing pin is in a different location on the front cover between the S5 & Cosmo covers. I'm using the Cosmo front cover and the FD waterpump assembly/pullies so I HAD to transfer timing marks onto the FD pulley from the Cosmo pulley so I could set the timing.

If you have an S5 pulley, I would line it up with the Cosmo pulley and make sure the timing marks are in the same place. I don't think they will be becuase I believe the pin is is two physically different locations. So if you're setting your timing based of the S5 front cover onto the RE pulley, it would be advanced which would actually explain the problem. Does this make sense?

Simply way to check, put the S5 pulley on with the bolts finger tight and manually rotate the engine until the timing marks are aligned with the pin. Now you should be @ 5*. Without rotating the motor in the least, remove the S5 pulley and install the Cosmo pulley. I would bet that the timing marks are now misalinged. If the timing was set with the Cosmo pulley, the actual ignition timing will be off.

-B

 

Hummmmm very interesting.... You know, I asked quite a few people on here if they had the same markings at the same locations on the pulley but if the actual physical location of the pins are different than it really doesn't matter.... well damn, you're probably right. I'll check it out. If I find out it's not correct the tune would have to be made all over again right? Damn I might as well call kilo right now...

 

I just called him to see if that could be it and he said no because there is a way he puts all of his car on time and it doesn't matter what the pulley is. I don't know, I'm lost.

 

No disrespect intended, but how does he set the timing without using the timing marks???

 

That is incorrect, Loquito Killer builds the engine, and helps Ken with the tunnning.

 

There are other methods..

 

If your running that rich on 11.5 race plugs, you will foul them out very quick. Get yourself a good wideband. When Im having my car tuned we use three widebands just for the variation factor between sensors and location. If your car is indeed tuned to that a/f ratio, ask why. Your tuner has been around rotaries for a long time and is respected as one of the leading ones.

 

This is definitely a hardware issue... I would hate for your tuner to read this and think wrong and turn into a discussion over his tuning capabilities.

 

Sorry I thought I made it clear it wasn't him and I am not blaming him in any way shape or form. I'm just asking what it could be. I'll state again KILO IS THE MAN

 

He is saying it's the pump and -6AN lines... I'm going to buy another sensor just to make sure as well as a new pump however I just don't see how any of this could be the reason for a car that likes to be tuned so rich.

 

If the pump is the culprit, I don't see how it is possible to get the AFRs in the 9's. Even if the injectors are maxed out you wouldn't be able to get more fuel out of it with a faulty pump.

BTW I have driven my car with AFRs below 10:1 and it doesnt accelerate very smoothly.

 

The method that I am aware of setting time when using the stock FC/RE CAS and an EMS - (doesn't matter which) - is to lock the timing @ the EMS at whatever mark is on the pulley, in this case 5*, and rotate the CAS until the mark is aligned with the pin while running. If the pins are in different physical locations on the covers, than the correct pulley needs to be used otherwise your ignition will be wrong.

Tell ya what, I JUST put an S4 engine on the stand, in a few minutes I'll grab a few pics of a Cosmo cover next to an S4 cover so we can all see.

Elaborate please.

Exacetly, it cannot be the pump or the lines being a restriction as it's already running way fat. I really thing the timing is just WAY far advanced and it needs the rich mix to slow the flame speed down.

 

This thread has got me a little intrigued.

Im no tuner (only tuned my own cars) but seem to be good with logic.

All this has been said but thinking about it, it seems to be unrelated to fueling hardware

Car will only run right when rich - either gauge is wrong and its actully not righ or ignition is too far advanced and need the fuel to slow the burn - Question is.....is it smokey and smell like fuel?

So the possibilities are:

Gauge is wrong - Power levels seem ok...maybe a little low, but two gauges worng at the same time as well? doesnt explain the drop in fuel pressure either - not the issue in my mind

Lack of fuel supply - Fuel pressure is only dropping off when running extreme AFRs - Logic is all wrong. This all points to the car running way to much fuel and the gauges are indeed correct. - Not the issue

So why are you having to run too much fuel - My bet is on timing or some other fault relating to the combustion/ignition.

I just cant see how having to run more fuel has anything to do with not being able to deliver enough as your tuner has said?

 

Well how about everyone come over to my house when the car comes in. Beer and BBQ is on me Yeah it has me intrigued as well. I'm sure kilo is tired of hearing from me because I keep calling asking him if it could be different things. As soon as I get the car it will be on like donkey kong and we'll get to the bottom of this for sure. Thanks for everyone's help thus far you guys are the ****

 

I'd actually love to see that if you don't mind!

 

Yeah I have to agree with you.