Maintaining Reliability and Raising My Power to 500rwhp
04-28-13, 09:53 PM
#51
Here is the experience I have being around all the rotary guys here in town.
The guys who built their engines in their garage have had great success and their engines are still running after thousands of miles.
To add insult to injury, we all tuned the car on the street by ourselves. No professional tuners, none. I tuned my car by myself and spent some time tuning the hell out of it. every row, every column I want a perfect AFR reading with knock levels under 30, and my max injector duty cycles I was hitting were around 70's percent with 5,300CC of fuel.
My car runs like a damn champ and feels amazing. It idles well, it runs well, and its great.
my suggestion is learn how to do it yourself. It doesn't subject yourself to a bad tune that is rushed or by incompetence. Atleast you will need to learn and can monitor it, and you know you will take your time and get it right regardless of how long it takes you.
Just MO.
The guys who built their engines in their garage have had great success and their engines are still running after thousands of miles.
To add insult to injury, we all tuned the car on the street by ourselves. No professional tuners, none. I tuned my car by myself and spent some time tuning the hell out of it. every row, every column I want a perfect AFR reading with knock levels under 30, and my max injector duty cycles I was hitting were around 70's percent with 5,300CC of fuel.
My car runs like a damn champ and feels amazing. It idles well, it runs well, and its great.
my suggestion is learn how to do it yourself. It doesn't subject yourself to a bad tune that is rushed or by incompetence. Atleast you will need to learn and can monitor it, and you know you will take your time and get it right regardless of how long it takes you.
Just MO.
04-29-13, 10:30 AM
#52
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getting past 400-420whp reliable is really not possible on a rotary with 93 pump gas. adding meth works but it can fail or run out and that can take out a motor or bend steel seals. a well built and clearanced motor with good irons, housings and balance is defiantly needed 100%. the only real solution to a reliable 500whp is e85 with no meth etc. to bypass the 1 flaw that methanol injection can have. my car has been very reliable at 490whp on pump/meth. one day i will switch to e85 when the pumps come around my area more consistently.
lol
420whp no possible to be reliable ? are you serious ? 
04-29-13, 10:50 AM
#53
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very true.. even the best ems tuners cannot get it perfect in only a weekend or so, which is all most shops will spend tuning your car. self-tuners spend months perfecting it, so i suppose its no surprise homebrew tunes end up being so successful. basically learn to do it yourself or roll the dice on a shop
It good to log during really hot summer days and cold winter days to get the full complete tune.
04-29-13, 11:06 AM
#54
Would it be a good argument to utilize a shop for WOT tuning only? I say that because from my experiences from tuning my own car. Driveability tuning, although tedius, is pretty simple since the chances of detonation are so small. My worry is not having enough experience when trying to tune a high boost (20+) setting when one extra degree of timing can be the end of a motor/turbo. Shops have the experience, hopefully, to know when they might be reaching that limit since they probably have past the limit before, especially on a rotary lol. A self tuner is usually just going off information from other self tuners, which may be good or bad, who knows.
04-29-13, 11:51 AM
#55
getting PAST 420whp on 93 pump gas is really not reliable you will need a/i which in turn is just something else that can go wrong. like i said can you do 500whp somewhat reliably yes. i have nearly 500whp on pump/meth myself and it has been working well but in reality if that meth goes off for even 1 sec under boost you will detonate.
04-29-13, 01:27 PM
#57
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Would it be a good argument to utilize a shop for WOT tuning only? I say that because from my experiences from tuning my own car. Driveability tuning, although tedius, is pretty simple since the chances of detonation are so small. My worry is not having enough experience when trying to tune a high boost (20+) setting when one extra degree of timing can be the end of a motor/turbo. Shops have the experience, hopefully, to know when they might be reaching that limit since they probably have past the limit before, especially on a rotary lol. A self tuner is usually just going off information from other self tuners, which may be good or bad, who knows.
I think all tuning can be done by an individual, granted they start with a good conservative timing map and split.
I tuned my car on 91 pump fuel the entire map up to 14PSI sea level (17PSI up in the mtns).
My map was lean to start on the entire map (just how it was, had to richen it up before tuning). I first tuned the lower cells and worked my way up slowly. I would smooth the map after every session and ensure I added fuel to lines above as I worked up. When I started my first pull at like 10PSI (7PSI sea level) I noticed it was getting lean on the ramp to it, I added fuel, tried again and noticed lean, added fuel. I added fuel till I could make a complete row run in the 10's AFR. I then leaned it out after that (12's AFR for this boost pressure).
When I was adding fuel I also added fuel to the whole map above that row line. I then trimmed the fuel back to where it should be for that line and the ones above with real data. (top row was low 11's high 10's AFR)
The easiest lines to tune where the upper rpm region. I did 2 runs of data for each row (boost controller set to off, then 5% gain, 10% gain, etc.) till desired boost max was attained. That whole top half took literally 15-30 minutes to perfect.
The partial boost and vacuum areas were a bitch since we don't have long flat roads here in CO, everything is hilly, so it was tough to maintain a constent input to fill the line, plus the car doesn't have much power to climb a hill vrs. going down hills.
After that I checked knock. I was doing checks with knock and watched temperatures during my AFR pulls, but wasn't logging them. This time I logged them. I also logged injector duty cycle for my top row. I retarded the time a degree or two in some of the lower areas to reduce knock under 30.
I did not tune for max WHP, I staid with conservative timing maps.
04-29-13, 05:40 PM
#58
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getting PAST 420whp on 93 pump gas is really not reliable you will need a/i which in turn is just something else that can go wrong. like i said can you do 500whp somewhat reliably yes. i have nearly 500whp on pump/meth myself and it has been working well but in reality if that meth goes off for even 1 sec under boost you will detonate.
Just don't Buy anything people tell you
04-30-13, 08:25 AM
#65
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500whp on 93 is doable, you just need a bigger turbo that flows well and about 16-17 lbs of boost, and when i mean bigger we're talking like a t6 or larger t4 size turbo or so.
04-30-13, 09:51 AM
#67
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500 is not hard to make this days . but if is so hard for you then ... i dunno ... change your mec or something. what can i say
04-30-13, 09:56 AM
#68
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I guess what it comes down to is combustion temperature which can equal detonation if it gets too high.
so you need a turbo that is efficient to push 500WHP (certain flow rate) and a good heat exchanger (intercooler) to ensure you can keep the incoming air temp low.
But as WHP increases, combustion temps increase as you are compressing more fuel/air in the same sized volume.
Does anyone have a rough guideline or know of any that says given these parameters equals dangerous? or given these parameters you are good with a good margin of safety?
so you need a turbo that is efficient to push 500WHP (certain flow rate) and a good heat exchanger (intercooler) to ensure you can keep the incoming air temp low.
But as WHP increases, combustion temps increase as you are compressing more fuel/air in the same sized volume.
Does anyone have a rough guideline or know of any that says given these parameters equals dangerous? or given these parameters you are good with a good margin of safety?
04-30-13, 09:58 AM
#69
We were talking reliably . 500 whp can be done i never said that it couldn't . but its pushing way past whats efficiant for 93. I would never tune anyone's car close to that. As soon as any of my customers want more then 400whp I turn them to a/i right away.
04-30-13, 10:26 AM
#74
He recently installed that, but apparently he's been running 100 octane on his previous dynos and not 93, but no meth still. I've ridden in his car on his old 25 psi s475 build, no meth, just holding on for dear life.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...hp-lol-981063/
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...hp-lol-981063/