Maintaining Reliability and Raising My Power to 500rwhp
04-17-13, 05:01 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Monsterbox
What was your setup? Just wondering.
Otherwise, PT6265 turbo, 4" full exhaust, MASSIVE VMIC setup, Aquamist HFS-3/Summer, PFC, Profec B Spec II, etc., etc., etc. Fit $50k into thought out mods across the whole car and you'll have my setup at the time.
We took my engine apart in my garage and I was shocked by what I saw, but that is another story for another time.. Bottom line is that he blamed Enzo for my first engine going (with the broken side seal) and he said that I must have put bad gas in my car for the second engine.
Originally Posted by Monsterbox
Was timing just too advanced?
Question: Why do you want 500whp as opposed to 400whp or 450whp?
Last edited by fendamonky; 04-17-13 at 05:12 PM.
04-17-13, 07:40 PM
#29
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PFS built my previous motor, and tuned it to approx 470whp (I think it was like 469 at 19psi, I can't remember exactly). He gave the motor his stamp of approval and said the tune was good.
That motor blew an apex seal less than 1,500 miles from initial start up, while I was sedately driving in to work one sunday (I was testing to see what kind of fuel economy I could get if I went easy on it..)
No tuner is perfect, and it's my experience that PFS will NOT stand behind their work if it causes you an engine. I'm not saying that he'll blow your motor up, but I do know of several cases where engines blew shortly after being tuned there. Just a word of caution..
That motor blew an apex seal less than 1,500 miles from initial start up, while I was sedately driving in to work one sunday (I was testing to see what kind of fuel economy I could get if I went easy on it..)
No tuner is perfect, and it's my experience that PFS will NOT stand behind their work if it causes you an engine. I'm not saying that he'll blow your motor up, but I do know of several cases where engines blew shortly after being tuned there. Just a word of caution..
04-18-13, 02:32 AM
#32
To the OP.. Many members here run 450-550whp on their strip and weekend warriors, you could always find a few build threads and make notes of their setups, the ups and downs etc and then draw your own conclusions. A car in the 400-450whp (t4/1.0+ AR gt35r) has a larger window to work with than say a car running 500whp+ on pump and just water. IMO around 500-525+whp is when things such as running 1 fuel pump (plus OEM fuel lines etc) begin to hit high duty levels, the tranny starts to feel quite abused, the cost vs drive-ability of a good clutch really factors etc.
04-18-13, 06:45 AM
#33
. No blowie. When I first got the car and was very inexperienced I ran it on 87 for 2 years and pegged the coolant temp gauge numerous times...no blowie. The engine does not pull much vacuum and compression is in the 80's but I can get it to idle smoothly below 500 rpms at times.
04-18-13, 09:01 AM
#34
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I'm running a 13psi wastegate spring but, for some reason, my car kept bleeding off down to 11psi on the dyno so that's my dyno number. On the street it holds 13-14psi no problem so it's actually probably closer to 400whp right now, lol.Even so, I will be getting rid of my PFC as soon as I have the money saved, once I've got a new (competent, imo) ECU in there I'll be reinstalling my boost controller and turning it up to the low 20psi range
Granted, I won't be DDing my car, and when I am driving it I'll probably be keeping it in the lower 400's for longevity.
I should have some decent pics of the car/bumper after DGRR and can totally share them if you'd like
04-18-13, 09:03 AM
#35
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Lol, I wish I could say that. I ran my t04 to 20-20 psi for about 6 months on 1000cc secondaries that were at max duty cycle leaning into the 12's . No blowie. When I first got the car and was very inexperienced I ran it on 87 for 2 years and pegged the coolant temp gauge numerous times...no blowie. The engine does not pull much vacuum and compression is in the 80's but I can get it to idle smoothly below 500 rpms at times.
. No blowie. When I first got the car and was very inexperienced I ran it on 87 for 2 years and pegged the coolant temp gauge numerous times...no blowie. The engine does not pull much vacuum and compression is in the 80's but I can get it to idle smoothly below 500 rpms at times. Your engine sounds like my first one (minus the low octane fuel, hehe). I abused that engine SOOO MUCH and it kept pushing harder just asking for more.
04-18-13, 01:20 PM
#36
Sounds like what I'll be doing. The allure of a 500whp sounds great.. but with constant weather changes, a short season of moderate temperatures etc. the thought of going with turblowns tdx61 sounds like a better option than my 6766. Either way I can have a ~425whp at 15psi setup or bump it up to around 500 still in the future haha.
04-18-13, 11:22 PM
#37
Well, I'm going to take this approach:
Take current map, have tuner build on it from there:
1. move up the boost as high as possible while maintaining below 90% duty cycle, what even number this reaches seems like highest psi I should go with, unless turbo maxes out before injectors.
2. run water/meth at 50/50 for knock protection
3. request that timing be run slightly retarded to ensure safeguard against detonation
Instead of aiming for a specific horsepower or a specific psi etc...I'm going to approach this as tuning the motor to the max efficiency of all systems functioning together. (Trans/Clutch/Rear not part of the concern as this can always be replaced)
My point of maxing out the car now is I currently have the chance to do this with a knowledgeable tuner and I don't want to pass up this opportunity. Out here in Birmingham, AL we are pretty isolated from the rotary world. Hell there's only about 6 FDs in my city.
Take current map, have tuner build on it from there:
1. move up the boost as high as possible while maintaining below 90% duty cycle, what even number this reaches seems like highest psi I should go with, unless turbo maxes out before injectors.
2. run water/meth at 50/50 for knock protection
3. request that timing be run slightly retarded to ensure safeguard against detonation
Instead of aiming for a specific horsepower or a specific psi etc...I'm going to approach this as tuning the motor to the max efficiency of all systems functioning together. (Trans/Clutch/Rear not part of the concern as this can always be replaced)
My point of maxing out the car now is I currently have the chance to do this with a knowledgeable tuner and I don't want to pass up this opportunity. Out here in Birmingham, AL we are pretty isolated from the rotary world. Hell there's only about 6 FDs in my city.
04-19-13, 10:50 AM
#40
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btw, i've had a few turbo setups, FD, T2, and a 3 rotor, and i've never lost an engine, but i'm careful, i like the engine where it is, thank you.
04-27-13, 01:56 PM
#41
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Lol, I wish I could say that. I ran my t04 to 20-20 psi for about 6 months on 1000cc secondaries that were at max duty cycle leaning into the 12's . No blowie. When I first got the car and was very inexperienced I ran it on 87 for 2 years and pegged the coolant temp gauge numerous times...no blowie. The engine does not pull much vacuum and compression is in the 80's but I can get it to idle smoothly below 500 rpms at times.
. No blowie. When I first got the car and was very inexperienced I ran it on 87 for 2 years and pegged the coolant temp gauge numerous times...no blowie. The engine does not pull much vacuum and compression is in the 80's but I can get it to idle smoothly below 500 rpms at times. is not leaning out. some prefer running lower but 12s afr is not leaning out
04-27-13, 02:43 PM
#42
Decision has been made,
Thought ab switching to a bw366, but im satisfied w 450-500 and t04s should do it, its just too bad its so quiet under spool.
Going with Coolingmist stage 1 meth/water, just purchased at 3 bar sensor and the tune is scheduled in 3 wks. Hopefully we can make some good numbers at approx 20psi.
Do you guys recommened colder plugs or will 9s do the job? If I need to go colder how about the 10eix snow mobile plugs from ngk? They are usable w a thin wall socket
Thought ab switching to a bw366, but im satisfied w 450-500 and t04s should do it, its just too bad its so quiet under spool.
Going with Coolingmist stage 1 meth/water, just purchased at 3 bar sensor and the tune is scheduled in 3 wks. Hopefully we can make some good numbers at approx 20psi.
Do you guys recommened colder plugs or will 9s do the job? If I need to go colder how about the 10eix snow mobile plugs from ngk? They are usable w a thin wall socket
04-27-13, 06:00 PM
#43
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Stock 9's across the board should work. I know that Speed1 tuned a BW turbo to over 500whp using the BUR9EQP's with no issues, also running WM50 injection. Those plugs lasted fine for a year (and counting) as far as I'm aware.
04-27-13, 09:58 PM
#46
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Here is the experience I have being around all the rotary guys here in town.
The guys who built their engines in their garage have had great success and their engines are still running after thousands of miles.
To add insult to injury, we all tuned the car on the street by ourselves. No professional tuners, none. I tuned my car by myself and spent some time tuning the hell out of it. every row, every column I want a perfect AFR reading with knock levels under 30, and my max injector duty cycles I was hitting were around 70's percent with 5,300CC of fuel.
My car runs like a damn champ and feels amazing. It idles well, it runs well, and its great.
my suggestion is learn how to do it yourself. It doesn't subject yourself to a bad tune that is rushed or by incompetence. Atleast you will need to learn and can monitor it, and you know you will take your time and get it right regardless of how long it takes you.
Just MO.
The guys who built their engines in their garage have had great success and their engines are still running after thousands of miles.
To add insult to injury, we all tuned the car on the street by ourselves. No professional tuners, none. I tuned my car by myself and spent some time tuning the hell out of it. every row, every column I want a perfect AFR reading with knock levels under 30, and my max injector duty cycles I was hitting were around 70's percent with 5,300CC of fuel.
My car runs like a damn champ and feels amazing. It idles well, it runs well, and its great.
my suggestion is learn how to do it yourself. It doesn't subject yourself to a bad tune that is rushed or by incompetence. Atleast you will need to learn and can monitor it, and you know you will take your time and get it right regardless of how long it takes you.
Just MO.
04-28-13, 09:03 PM
#50
getting past 400-420whp reliable is really not possible on a rotary with 93 pump gas. adding meth works but it can fail or run out and that can take out a motor or bend steel seals. a well built and clearanced motor with good irons, housings and balance is defiantly needed 100%. the only real solution to a reliable 500whp is e85 with no meth etc. to bypass the 1 flaw that methanol injection can have. my car has been very reliable at 490whp on pump/meth. one day i will switch to e85 when the pumps come around my area more consistently.