Yep. I'm saying I don't think it has any positive affect whatsoever on "stiffness" or, more specifically, helping to keep an older-style plate from cracking. Even though it appears to be well-made, I find it gimmicky and ineffective for any block strengthening stuff.

B

 

Gimmicky? Hmmm...

It does exactly what we say it does. "Its main purpose is to reduce oil pan leaks caused by engine flex"
Nowhere does it state that it will reduce plate failures. However we do run a double brace setup on our 13b-re to act as an engine girdle....

 

I didn't call that part gimmicky. What it says it does is for a whole different thread and I'd rather not share whatever I think about that here.

Didn't say it did. Merely pointing my thoughts on it out to arghx who'd brought it up if it were possible that it did do something for "strength".

B

 

Excuse me, can you not read your own post?

No you said that is didn't, and this this is where you are wrong again. Anything bolted to the bottom of the engine will add rigidity to it. The amount of "strength" is limited to the hardware however. Girdles have been used on high powered piston engines for decades to prevent block failure. Our oil pan brace was developed to brace guess what?....you got it the oil pan, we did not develop it to brace the engine.

 

Been there before , as enzo said you can crack anything if you try hard enough.

I know Guru kits leak, I supposed those studs leaked as well?

I'm not a fan of extra dowels it leaves too little material. I have used studs with good results.

 

Actually, they did not leak a drop. They work flawlessly and i have not had ANY issues with them They are not Guru studs though.

 

I don't think I'm mistaken at all. You've implied here in your response that it adds "rigidity" to the block and then attempted to strengthen that position with the "girdles on piston engines" comment. That specific factor is what I call "gimmicky" and wholly ineffective as my response to Arghx's question:

And I said in a nutshell, "no way in hell" . Even if that brace were made out of unobtanium, I still don't think it would do anything beneficial regarding his question. If it were advertised as such, I would call it "gimmicky". The bottoms of these engines never seem to break ever. It's always on the top corner around 45-50*BTDC (off the top of my head). All of the pinning, machining, and gee-whiz fancy work seems to mostly be done up there or atleast from 90*BTDC to just past TDC. If someone were to ask me my opinion on the purchase and use of an oil pan brace for the purpose of strengthening the block per se, I would tell them they're wasting their money. If it prevents leaks as advertised, then great and more power to you. I, personally, don't see the need for it as I don't have issues with oil pan leaks so in my own personal opinion I'm not sure this is an efficacious thing, but that's just me.

 

They leave too little material?

have you seen how much material gets removed when engine is studded?

And again people being negative about a method or product because they think it might not work. People should look at the results, the real data. Not what they think and dont think will work.

 

So, in your opinion that is the weak link in the "studding" process? What would you say if the engine could be studded without removing much (if any) material from the bosses?

 

You don't need to do a thing to your motor until you reach around 630rwhp BTW, when I had my engine studded, it leaked. Now I just have it with extra dowels and its fine.

 

And and oil pan brace isn't going to do squat. I've seen all the fast PR cars and none of those have an oil pan brace, lol...It surely isnt going to prevent cracking an iron.

 

I'm all for dowel pinning anything that's going to make 600rwhp or more. I started doing it to see if it would help keep the rotors from contacting the rotor housings in the higher hp applications. IMO it does help keep the rotor housing from deflecting.

 

AGREED. i ran my car with 448 for about a year and a half and nothing happened to my motor. nothing has.

just street port with als seals (for now)

 

Also agree. Nothing needs to be done to your engine until after 600 and up. I'll go with Ernies number 630...as we're right at 620 (ha, so we're safe for now:-D) with the only internal mod being aviation seals.

 

What mph are you running at 630rwhp?

That kind of Hp down here in aus usually equates to around 155-160mph.

But US dynos seem to read much much higher.

 

I agree 100% with the statement that no matter how much you re-inforce something, if that motor knocks at any high level of power, something WILL give. I think the money that could be spent on re-inforced oil pans or other "fixes" should be spent on something more worthwhile like a proper tune or AI, things that HAVE been proven to prevent problems from happening in the first place.

 

Your gonna beat that horse more?


We have to skew our HP figures because we don't have downhill drag strips like they do down under


Do you think it's a conspiracy or the Coriolis effect???

 

i use dowels and a 1/4 inch thick aluminum oil pan baffle. we'll see how this new setup holds. i broke 2 rear irons on low boost (18psi) so going the extra mile with a few inventions and see what happens.

 

can i ask what studs you were using? were they stock sized or did you have to drill the motor?
and were all of the bolts replaced with studs, or did you go the pica route?

 

A-Spec
oversized
pica route

 

ans Sean, or anyone else for that matter, what guru stud leakage stories have you heard or experienced?
i know mazdatrix is selling tons of the guru made studs but i haven't heard any horror stories on this forum or elsewhere. i'm about to build an engine with guru 10mm studs and would really like to hear you guys experiences

 

have any of you guys seen streched factory tension bolts?
i don't want to drill my motor at all, so i'm staying away from pinning and oversized studs, do you really think the stock sized guru studs are gonna be a problem?

 

You've already asked me this. You don't make any sense. 155-160mph? Yea in a 1800lb car, not a 2900lb car. You can't just go by hp. So I suppose since I make 781rwhp my car should hit 200mph??

 

Just as an example.

A car that just made a shad under 800rwhp run 179mph.


Thats what it made on a dyno dynamics dyno. I have no relation to the car.
Im not saying theirs anything wrong with your hp figures, but obviously the figures in aus are different. Same hp giving different results. Why does everybody take insult?

A 12a down here in aus weighed over 2500lb and with 630ish hp ran 155-159mph(has since run faster with more HP).

Is their anything wrong with my question? what mph did your car run with your hp?

 

My car was dynoed on a dynojet (standard, sae, uncorrected, and corrected). My fastest mph to date is 149mph.