ID 2000's Worth It ?
01-01-12, 10:56 PM
#34
I just ordered two of the bosch ev14 2000/2200 injectors from http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...&productId=246 . I talked to the guy there about them and felt good about the choice.
These are more worth it IMO, Better price $168 each, flow matched set (If I remember correctly he said they flow match them down to 5msec) good enough for me. They come with the correct top adapters (14mm oring and 60mm long injector). I bought them to replace my bosch 1680s for secondarys. The ID's are just too expensive when you can get the same injector for a good bit less, the IDs are just supposedly matched better, but I highly doubt you would feel a difference between a set from the two companies.
And thanks Howard and neit_jnf . Yes ID 725 and 1000s are modified injectors to get those flow rates, they don't come from the manufacturer in those sizes.
These are more worth it IMO, Better price $168 each, flow matched set (If I remember correctly he said they flow match them down to 5msec) good enough for me. They come with the correct top adapters (14mm oring and 60mm long injector). I bought them to replace my bosch 1680s for secondarys. The ID's are just too expensive when you can get the same injector for a good bit less, the IDs are just supposedly matched better, but I highly doubt you would feel a difference between a set from the two companies.
And thanks Howard and neit_jnf . Yes ID 725 and 1000s are modified injectors to get those flow rates, they don't come from the manufacturer in those sizes.
01-02-12, 10:02 AM
#35
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I just ordered two of the bosch ev14 2000/2200 injectors from http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...&productId=246 . I talked to the guy there about them and felt good about the choice.
These are more worth it IMO, Better price $168 each, flow matched set (If I remember correctly he said they flow match them down to 5msec) good enough for me. They come with the correct top adapters (14mm oring and 60mm long injector). I bought them to replace my bosch 1680s for secondarys. The ID's are just too expensive when you can get the same injector for a good bit less, the IDs are just supposedly matched better, but I highly doubt you would feel a difference between a set from the two companies.
And thanks Howard and neit_jnf . Yes ID 725 and 1000s are modified injectors to get those flow rates, they don't come from the manufacturer in those sizes.
These are more worth it IMO, Better price $168 each, flow matched set (If I remember correctly he said they flow match them down to 5msec) good enough for me. They come with the correct top adapters (14mm oring and 60mm long injector). I bought them to replace my bosch 1680s for secondarys. The ID's are just too expensive when you can get the same injector for a good bit less, the IDs are just supposedly matched better, but I highly doubt you would feel a difference between a set from the two companies.
And thanks Howard and neit_jnf . Yes ID 725 and 1000s are modified injectors to get those flow rates, they don't come from the manufacturer in those sizes.
01-06-12, 08:58 AM
#40
Hi Marcel,
good to see we both continue to suffer from the same psychosis....(re-designingitus)
i made the move to EV14s after my guy had so many good things to say about the linearity V the older Bosch injectors.
i ended up dealing w John (owner) at Fuel Injector Connection. he knows the RX backwards and forwards, will provide you w the right fit, adapter pigtails and an excellent price. he is a gearhead for sure... w a 6 second chevy S10 in the family along w lots of other toys.
a good guy. pls mention my name and say hi. i suggest you give him a call and discuss your needs.
info@fuelinjectorconnection.com
your link 5 0 looks good and there certainly is nothing wrong w ID. i am not trying to steer you anywhere, just provide you w options.
well i am steering you in the EV14 direction
have a great New Year and get that monster on the road
howard
good to see we both continue to suffer from the same psychosis....(re-designingitus)
i made the move to EV14s after my guy had so many good things to say about the linearity V the older Bosch injectors.
i ended up dealing w John (owner) at Fuel Injector Connection. he knows the RX backwards and forwards, will provide you w the right fit, adapter pigtails and an excellent price. he is a gearhead for sure... w a 6 second chevy S10 in the family along w lots of other toys.
a good guy. pls mention my name and say hi. i suggest you give him a call and discuss your needs.
info@fuelinjectorconnection.com
your link 5 0 looks good and there certainly is nothing wrong w ID. i am not trying to steer you anywhere, just provide you w options.
well i am steering you in the EV14 direction
have a great New Year and get that monster on the road
howard
I am not sure if Jon (not John i think) knows RX7 like the back of his hand because I had to ask Prew which mm injectors and o-rings and adapters I needed to use. Thanks again Prew
Jon probably knows the stock configuration best, maybe it was the KG & CJ rail he wasn't sure about. My advice is search in this forum exactly what you need and then talk to Jon and he has all the o-rings, harnesses, adapters etc....
Like someone said in another thread our cars have been running on 1680s for years with no problems, now we have a better injector so all this flow matching stuff won't matter, at least not for secondary injectors. Anyone blew up an engine because of non-flow matched Bosch EV-14s?
So far I am happy with my decision.
01-08-12, 02:06 PM
#41
I just ordered two of the bosch ev14 2000/2200 injectors from http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...&productId=246 . I talked to the guy there about them and felt good about the choice.
These are more worth it IMO, Better price $168 each, flow matched set (If I remember correctly he said they flow match them down to 5msec) good enough for me. They come with the correct top adapters (14mm oring and 60mm long injector). I bought them to replace my bosch 1680s for secondarys. The ID's are just too expensive when you can get the same injector for a good bit less, the IDs are just supposedly matched better, but I highly doubt you would feel a difference between a set from the two companies.
And thanks Howard and neit_jnf . Yes ID 725 and 1000s are modified injectors to get those flow rates, they don't come from the manufacturer in those sizes.
These are more worth it IMO, Better price $168 each, flow matched set (If I remember correctly he said they flow match them down to 5msec) good enough for me. They come with the correct top adapters (14mm oring and 60mm long injector). I bought them to replace my bosch 1680s for secondarys. The ID's are just too expensive when you can get the same injector for a good bit less, the IDs are just supposedly matched better, but I highly doubt you would feel a difference between a set from the two companies.
And thanks Howard and neit_jnf . Yes ID 725 and 1000s are modified injectors to get those flow rates, they don't come from the manufacturer in those sizes.
01-09-12, 04:46 PM
#44
I found this - http://blog.titanmotorsports.com/?tag=bosch-1600 there is some good information and it is interesting because I just switched from 1600/1680s to the 2000/2200s.
However, surprising to me there was a big lean spike and afr's were much leaner during the injector transition with the 2200s compared to the 1680s with the same settings I was using for the 1680s (injector overlap 7 7 5, Pri/Sec transition 30% and Sec transition .1 ms). after doing tons of testing (56 tests/datalogs) of different injector transition settings (injector overlap, Pri/Sec transition % and Sec transition (ms) ), I found settings that work the best for me. The settings that made the most difference was the Pri/Sec transition %, I had to raise it to 40%, the AFR's were leaner during the whole transition with lower %'s, and currently using Sec transition .5 ms and Injector overlap of 5 4 3 works good. But still even at the end of the transition when the idc starts to rise again the afr's were leaner than before with the 1680s, so now I am adding alot of fuel to my fuel map there and tuning, I haven't revved it past 5k yet though.
So it just seems weird so far that everything is much leaner with these bigger injectors that are supposed to flow more. Anyone else had this experience when tuning these injectors after switching from 1680s?
It's nice that the 2000s have linear flow up to 94% where as the 1680s dumped in alot more fuel right at 84% idc, which explains why my afrs would suddenly go so rich right at about 84% idc at the beginning of my tuning session last time I was on the dyno.
However, surprising to me there was a big lean spike and afr's were much leaner during the injector transition with the 2200s compared to the 1680s with the same settings I was using for the 1680s (injector overlap 7 7 5, Pri/Sec transition 30% and Sec transition .1 ms). after doing tons of testing (56 tests/datalogs) of different injector transition settings (injector overlap, Pri/Sec transition % and Sec transition (ms) ), I found settings that work the best for me. The settings that made the most difference was the Pri/Sec transition %, I had to raise it to 40%, the AFR's were leaner during the whole transition with lower %'s, and currently using Sec transition .5 ms and Injector overlap of 5 4 3 works good. But still even at the end of the transition when the idc starts to rise again the afr's were leaner than before with the 1680s, so now I am adding alot of fuel to my fuel map there and tuning, I haven't revved it past 5k yet though.
So it just seems weird so far that everything is much leaner with these bigger injectors that are supposed to flow more. Anyone else had this experience when tuning these injectors after switching from 1680s?
It's nice that the 2000s have linear flow up to 94% where as the 1680s dumped in alot more fuel right at 84% idc, which explains why my afrs would suddenly go so rich right at about 84% idc at the beginning of my tuning session last time I was on the dyno.
01-09-12, 07:43 PM
#45
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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Tom,
thanks for sharing...
i expect to be on the dyno thursday w my new EV14s and will definitely run your info past my tuner.
it will be interesting to see how your new secondaries tune out V the 1600s.
i have two 1000 EV14s in my secondaries (pump gas) and another two EV14s (1000) in my elbow that inject methanol at around 116 PSI net of boost. 116/43.5 = 2.66 sq root is 1.63. 1.63 X 2000 CC = 3260 CC X 85% duty = 2771 net. given the ID chart it sounds like EV14s shouldn't have a problem running a bit over 85%.
are you logging fuel pressure thru your datalogit or are you monitoring a gauge? i find my pressure sensor/Datalogit output on Mapwatch to be quite valuable.
i am very impressed w how you have gotten just about all you can get out of the TO4.
howard
thanks for sharing...
i expect to be on the dyno thursday w my new EV14s and will definitely run your info past my tuner.
it will be interesting to see how your new secondaries tune out V the 1600s.
i have two 1000 EV14s in my secondaries (pump gas) and another two EV14s (1000) in my elbow that inject methanol at around 116 PSI net of boost. 116/43.5 = 2.66 sq root is 1.63. 1.63 X 2000 CC = 3260 CC X 85% duty = 2771 net. given the ID chart it sounds like EV14s shouldn't have a problem running a bit over 85%.
are you logging fuel pressure thru your datalogit or are you monitoring a gauge? i find my pressure sensor/Datalogit output on Mapwatch to be quite valuable.
i am very impressed w how you have gotten just about all you can get out of the TO4.
howard
01-09-12, 08:43 PM
#47
Yes I am logging fuel pressure with datalogit, it works nice. After I get an acceptable tune with these injectors I'll be going back to the dyno soon, I now have the large turbine housing and 4" turbo back exhaust, and will be putting in a walbro 400 lph pump so I can test out some more boost.
Just did some more tuning, I have 20% more fuel added to the inj map across 18000-20000 Pim to keep my afr around 11.5, I've tested it up to 5k rpm and 18psi, 3rd gear full throttle from lower rpms. And 5% more fuel across 16000, it all needs more fine tuning. And 15% 22000 and above. All this extra in the fuel map might just be needed because the idc doesn't start rising up from 45% until about 17 psi boost at 4400 rpm in 3rd gear.
Just did some more tuning, I have 20% more fuel added to the inj map across 18000-20000 Pim to keep my afr around 11.5, I've tested it up to 5k rpm and 18psi, 3rd gear full throttle from lower rpms. And 5% more fuel across 16000, it all needs more fine tuning. And 15% 22000 and above. All this extra in the fuel map might just be needed because the idc doesn't start rising up from 45% until about 17 psi boost at 4400 rpm in 3rd gear.
01-10-12, 01:35 AM
#48
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Yes I am logging fuel pressure with datalogit, it works nice. After I get an acceptable tune with these injectors I'll be going back to the dyno soon, I now have the large turbine housing and 4" turbo back exhaust, and will be putting in a walbro 400 lph pump so I can test out some more boost.
Just did some more tuning, I have 20% more fuel added to the inj map across 18000-20000 Pim to keep my afr around 11.5, I've tested it up to 5k rpm and 18psi, 3rd gear full throttle from lower rpms. And 5% more fuel across 16000, it all needs more fine tuning. And 15% 22000 and above. All this extra in the fuel map might just be needed because the idc doesn't start rising up from 45% until about 17 psi boost at 4400 rpm in 3rd gear.
Just did some more tuning, I have 20% more fuel added to the inj map across 18000-20000 Pim to keep my afr around 11.5, I've tested it up to 5k rpm and 18psi, 3rd gear full throttle from lower rpms. And 5% more fuel across 16000, it all needs more fine tuning. And 15% 22000 and above. All this extra in the fuel map might just be needed because the idc doesn't start rising up from 45% until about 17 psi boost at 4400 rpm in 3rd gear.
01-10-12, 02:09 AM
#49
I have a autometer electronic fuel pressure gauge and datalogging using the purple wire that is a 0-5v output. Ya when i realized it was leaning out I added 20% fuel to the fuel map and then started tuning. I did some more tuning tonight on 18 psi up to around 7k rpm, I'm getting the afr's tuned good now and the numbers in the fuel map so far are still more than before, so it doesn't really make sense, but I'm not done yet and still need to take out a little more fuel and more fine tuning.
01-10-12, 08:08 AM
#50
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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"I now have the large turbine housing and 4" turbo back exhaust"
did you have the above mods on your setup w the older style injectors? if not, it of course wouldn't be apples to apples and could easily explain the need for more fuel.
did you have the above mods on your setup w the older style injectors? if not, it of course wouldn't be apples to apples and could easily explain the need for more fuel.