ID 2000's Worth It ?
01-10-12, 10:34 AM
#52
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
so you ran the larger turbine housing and exhaust w the 1600s? how much additional fuel did you add? and it was how much rich?
what were the two housing A/Rs?
then after the above you added the injectors and it was very lean?
any other changes? base fuel pressure unchanged?
what were the two housing A/Rs?
then after the above you added the injectors and it was very lean?
any other changes? base fuel pressure unchanged?
01-10-12, 11:12 AM
#54
Yes I ran the larger 1.32 A/R turbine housing and 4" exhaust with the 1680s. It wasn't a given % across the map, I made a few map changes at the same time, but overal there was only like 2-3% more fuel and it was running like low 11 afr, just a little richer, overall the larger housing and bigger exhaust didn't make a big difference in afr. It did however reduce boost lag and the car feels like better bottom end and midrange power because the turbo gets up to boost a few hundred rpm quicker, I did lots of test to confirm this. Going from a .96 undivided housing to the 1.32 divided housing, with the same divided manifold. I didn't get it back on the dyno to check for a peak power increase and do better tuning, I wanted to do all that after getting these injectors installed. Yes the afrs were much leaner once it hit about 10 psi boost and above, above about 4k rpm. No other changes and no changes in fuel pressure. I'm not done tuning so I'll let everyone know how it turns out soon.
Any other tuners out there have experience switching from 1680s to 2200s ?
Any other tuners out there have experience switching from 1680s to 2200s ?
01-10-12, 07:08 PM
#56
Yep, I was waiting for someone to ask that haha.
I wonder if the pfc needs more for the lag time settings, because with The other injectors a lower lag time setting will make Afr leaner, and the lag times from Id are lower than all the other injectors we use.
I wonder if the pfc needs more for the lag time settings, because with The other injectors a lower lag time setting will make Afr leaner, and the lag times from Id are lower than all the other injectors we use.
01-10-12, 08:58 PM
#61
Thanks. Those are the numbers I'm using for 44% base fuel pressure. So you installed these and afr's were in the same ballpark? From 1680s. Mine were way off. Red injector wire connected to the thicker injector wire from the harness that tests positive with key on.
01-10-12, 09:29 PM
#64
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yeah its funny thing cause when i switched to ID2000 secondaries on the pfc i had to increase my base map quite a bit to keep my afr of 11.3 at 14psi. but i was shocked to see that my injector duty cycle at 80%. im running to4s xs engineering single turbo. ID725/ID2000. I used dead times listed on ID's website. I dont know what the target afr's were for the 1680cc injectors as i purchased the car not running with the map installed on the power fc. haha i may not explain myself right since i just got out of knee surgery today lol so please excuse if im not making sense
01-10-12, 11:09 PM
#65
I'm not done tuning and haven't tested past 19 psi yet, but my idc's are also looking higher than they should be comparing before and after logs. And when I select Fuel Duty % from the drop down list in the datalogit base map, the duty cycles are just a tad bit more than they were before with 1680s, comparing base maps. With these bigger injectors the idc is supposed to be a good bit lower, I don't get it..
01-10-12, 11:21 PM
#66
I'm not done tuning and haven't tested past 19 psi yet, but my idc's are also looking higher than they should be comparing before and after logs. And when I select Fuel Duty % from the drop down list in the datalogit base map, the duty cycles are just a tad bit more than they were before with 1680s, comparing base maps. With these bigger injectors the idc is supposed to be a good bit lower, I don't get it..
01-10-12, 11:29 PM
#67
Ya i am being very careful tuning it, that's why I started off adding 20% more fuel to the map when I first found out during the first injector transition test that something was off and it was running much leaner as soon as the transition started and when it was getting into boost.
These injectors will definitely not be worth it (to get back on topic lol) if I don't figure out why they seem to be flowing less than the old bosch 1680s.
These injectors will definitely not be worth it (to get back on topic lol) if I don't figure out why they seem to be flowing less than the old bosch 1680s.
01-11-12, 12:03 PM
#70
The table is the same as the table on ID's site.. so they probably didn't generate that data. Does that make it worth it more to buy the ID's, no.
I'm thinking my issue might be due to the fact that I had .40 lag time correction for the 1680s, possibly causing the tune to be richer compared to the settings I'm using for the 2200s, because with a .40 lag time for the 1680s added to the 14v InjSc (ms) vs BatV lag time of .768 that equals 1.168 total lag time. http://injector-rehab.com/shop/lag.html says the 14v lag time for the Ford Motorsport 1680s (bosch) is .94, .94 - .768 (.768 14v lag time default pfc setting for the stock 850 secondarys) equals .172 lag time correction. My lag time correction used was .40, which is a big difference of .228 (.4-.172) . Perhaps I need to run a .228 lag time correction with the lag time settings for the 2200s to get my afr in the ball park of what is was before with the same maps for the 1680s.
I will test this out soon, I'll keep my tune as it is at the moment and see if the afr gets much richer when I start to add lag time. I didn't get to go out last night to test. also waiting for John at Fuel injector connection to call me back to talk about all this. I just confirmed the part numbers on my fuel injectors, I did get the correct injectors lol.
01-12-12, 11:41 AM
#71
yeah its funny thing cause when i switched to ID2000 secondaries on the pfc i had to increase my base map quite a bit to keep my afr of 11.3 at 14psi. but i was shocked to see that my injector duty cycle at 80%. im running to4s xs engineering single turbo. ID725/ID2000. I used dead times listed on ID's website. I dont know what the target afr's were for the 1680cc injectors as i purchased the car not running with the map installed on the power fc. haha i may not explain myself right since i just got out of knee surgery today lol so please excuse if im not making sense
01-12-12, 12:07 PM
#72
What lag time settings did you use for the batv table and next to front secondary and rear secondary ? Did you do your own tuning and notice a lean condition or have to add alot of fuel to your map? I'm going to test out different lag settings soon today.
01-12-12, 12:37 PM
#73
actually car was tune by waynespped with 1300 cc, I just upgrade to ID 2000 and aeromotive pump, and test it before I was getting 89-93% injector with the 1300cc setup. I have not went back for any tunning witht he new setup, Anyway there is another thread BY the famous (AGRH) I believe his user name is he had the numbers figure out by using 40 psi fuel pressure, I just adjust to his setting.
01-12-12, 02:06 PM
#75
Hey I think I mis spell his user name, it's ARGHX he is the fellas that put out allot of info, incase you still can't find here is the info below.
The injector settings were discussed here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/fjo-injector-driver-installation-895398/page2/
The Datalogit does let you enter very high values for the secondary injectors. It is the Commander that maxes out. So far a popular approach for the ID2000 is to directly enter the injector lag vs battery voltage information into the settings 5 table. Then you can leave the normal lag "trim" adjustments (available in the Datalogit but also in the commander) to zero.
Using that method with a base pressure of 40psi the size should be 2200 and lag settings are:
16V - 0.380
14V - 0.500
12V - 0.688
10V - 0.964
8V - 1.476
For higher base pressure this chart has been supplied by Injector Dynamics:
there are a couple different approaches/settings people are using for overlap and transition. see the thread listed above for one approach used by thewird, who is using ID1000's as primaries
__________________
-- 1988 Rx-7 Turbo II, T04R
-- 1999 Toyota Corolla
-- Sold: 1997 Infiniti Q45 Touring
-- RIP: 1988 Rx-7 GTU, 172rwhp all motor
-- RIP: 1989 Supra
The injector settings were discussed here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/fjo-injector-driver-installation-895398/page2/
The Datalogit does let you enter very high values for the secondary injectors. It is the Commander that maxes out. So far a popular approach for the ID2000 is to directly enter the injector lag vs battery voltage information into the settings 5 table. Then you can leave the normal lag "trim" adjustments (available in the Datalogit but also in the commander) to zero.
Using that method with a base pressure of 40psi the size should be 2200 and lag settings are:
16V - 0.380
14V - 0.500
12V - 0.688
10V - 0.964
8V - 1.476
For higher base pressure this chart has been supplied by Injector Dynamics:
there are a couple different approaches/settings people are using for overlap and transition. see the thread listed above for one approach used by thewird, who is using ID1000's as primaries
__________________
-- 1988 Rx-7 Turbo II, T04R
-- 1999 Toyota Corolla
-- Sold: 1997 Infiniti Q45 Touring
-- RIP: 1988 Rx-7 GTU, 172rwhp all motor
-- RIP: 1989 Supra