HKS EVC IV setup help!?
03-27-10, 02:22 PM
#1
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
HKS EVC IV setup help!?
Has anyone on here got one of these running a single turbo and external wastegate?
I was at the dyno today and Geff was trying to setup the controller and we just could not get a stable boost with it? The car has been running on wastegate pressure up till now and boosted perfectly. (46mm wastegate for info). As soon as we tried to use the boost controller to regulate boost and run a bit higher as soon as the boost kicks in the pressure is pulsing up and down like a yo yo.
Anyone got any ideas or do I just need to get a different Boost controler for my application?
Cheers
Lee
I was at the dyno today and Geff was trying to setup the controller and we just could not get a stable boost with it? The car has been running on wastegate pressure up till now and boosted perfectly. (46mm wastegate for info). As soon as we tried to use the boost controller to regulate boost and run a bit higher as soon as the boost kicks in the pressure is pulsing up and down like a yo yo.
Anyone got any ideas or do I just need to get a different Boost controler for my application?
Cheers
Lee
03-29-10, 01:48 PM
#3
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I will double check again but the wastegate should be set correct. I have not tried adusting the gain. Am I correct in thinking maybe the unit is overboosting and cutting out then coming back on and overboosting again Or if it cutouts when the overboost limit is reached does it just stay off? I assume by gain you mean the boost offset? I have only found out about this today. Maybe I need to have a play and see what I can do.
Cheers
Lee
Cheers
Lee
03-30-10, 08:57 AM
#4
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I've noticed that my unit will bring boost a little higher then the setting, then come back down to the programmed amount. Adjusting the boost offset will change how aggressively the controller seeks the target boost. It's been a while since I programmed mine so I don't remember the specifics. If I get time I will power up the car tonight and check my settings.
03-30-10, 02:27 PM
#6
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
The boost controller was setup on the rolling road and as far I know it was done correctly but maybe I need to start fresh? from what I understand as long as you know the wastegate pressure setting you can manually set it up anyway?
Some idea of offset numbers might be helpful although I am not too sure that will help.. It's hard to see what it's doing bt I think it's reaching the desired boost then dropping back to wastegate pressure and jumping back up again and so one. like every second constantly up, down, up, down. Like the solenoid is wide open, then shut, wide open, shut? If it's not a setup issue would dirt inside it cause this problem and can they be cleaned out? The tuner said he didn't rate the HKS units and had had this before.. But then if other people are running them wth no problem it can only be setup or a dicky solenoid?
Thanks in advance for any help guys.
By the way Chudson, Have you got any pics posted of your car? Mine has been knick named the bat mobile too that's all!
Cheers
Lee
Some idea of offset numbers might be helpful although I am not too sure that will help.. It's hard to see what it's doing bt I think it's reaching the desired boost then dropping back to wastegate pressure and jumping back up again and so one. like every second constantly up, down, up, down. Like the solenoid is wide open, then shut, wide open, shut? If it's not a setup issue would dirt inside it cause this problem and can they be cleaned out? The tuner said he didn't rate the HKS units and had had this before.. But then if other people are running them wth no problem it can only be setup or a dicky solenoid?
Thanks in advance for any help guys.
By the way Chudson, Have you got any pics posted of your car? Mine has been knick named the bat mobile too that's all!
Cheers
Lee
03-30-10, 06:03 PM
#7
i dont have any good pics on here, but its and all black FD, nothing to special body wise besides a c-west front end and rims, soon to have rmagic fenders and custom wing. Everyone at work started calling it the batmobile haha, i've heard a few others call it that on here too.
I would definitely reset the controller and let it go through learning mode again. If it was set up on another car or just set up wrong to begin with then that could be why you are getting eratic boost. I don't know exactly how it works, but its got some kind of fuzzy logic system and from what I've heard it really needs to know the boost curve of your turbo and wastegate setup in order to work correctly.
I'm sure there are a couple of other things that could be causing the problem, but this is a good place to start.
Here is the how to from a Z owner that I found very helpful.
Disclaimer: This method worked for me and two other owners of Z's. Your car may or may not work with this method. Please be careful when making the learning mode runs. The author assumes no responsibility for whatever happens when following these instructions.
1) Who installed the EVC? I made sure that the solenoids were bypassed. Otherwise, my actuator will get confused because the EVC is sending info, which is correct, but the ECU is also sending boost info too, which will confuse the actuator. I remembered that stock boost with actuator only is approximately 6 psi. The 9.5 psi in a stock Z is gotten by the solenoids controlled by the ECU adding 3.5 psi.
2) I find that making the run on a straight road is crucial. I was careful doing this run. Watching out for other cars, people, animals, etc. I made sure it was safe first. It was best to have someone in the car with me to keep an eye on things. I made sure I had enough room to go 100 MPH and enough to brake and stop.
3) I made sure I cleared the memory by Mod-Alt-SBC when the unit was off. Now I turnned on the unit and pressed Alt-SBC. I should see an "L". I made my run now. I don't boost until 3rd gear. I would run from 2500-7200 RPM in 3rd gear. I heard a beep at about 3500-4000 RPM but I DO NOT STOP until 7200 RPM (JWT chip redline). I pulled over to side of the road. I now saw an "H". I did the same exact thing again. No boost until 3rd gear and run same RPM range. The EVC beeped when I let off the gas at 7200 RPM.
4) Now if I have done everything correctly, the unit will show me the stock boost pressure, about 0.40-0.50 bar (kg/cm2). Then it will switch in about a few seconds to the manifold pressure (vacuum in mmHg).
5) I am now ready to set my numbers. I would be conservative unless I had cold weather, good gas octane, or aftermarket intercoolers, 555cc injectors, and bigger turbos. Remember 1 kg/cm2 = 14.22 psi. So I set my #'s accordingly. The EVC has dual settings for a low boost and a high boost. I read the manual for setting those levels. I set the high first, then set the low. I remember that the low cannot exceed the high and that SBC in low will only work if it is equal to or lower than the high setting.
6) After my high boost setting, say 0.95 kg/cm2 for 13.5 psi, hit Mod button and that puts me in the offset display. Offset is very crucial because each car's turbos are setup differently. On the Z, I find that the length of the hoses to the turbos have an effect. Typically on the Z, the offset which worked was 118-120.
7) I hit Mod after setting the offset and that puts me in SBC display. Some people leave that at 0.00, which means no scramble boost. I used my judgment when setting this. Remember a blown engine is no fun and pretty expensive. The next display after pushing Mod is the seconds of scramble. If no scramble, leave that to 0.
8) After the seconds, the next display after pushing Mod is the warning boost level. I set this with caution. Be conservative. When boost exceeds this level, a warning beep sounds, display turns red, and the EVC turns off, so back to stock boost.
9) Now I am all setup. So I did the same with the low boost sequence.
10) Now I am ready for test runs. But first I lock the Auto Adjust because otherwise my offset will change. But I don't want that, do I? NO WAY. Ok, so I do that by turning the EVC off. I made sure my car was either running or the key was in the acc position. Press Mod and at same time toggle the back switch from SW to PO. Let go of the Mod button and push the toggle back to SW. I am now locked.
11) I boosted in 3rd gear and had someone in the car looking at my EVC display. I kept full boost, ie pedal to floor, until it stabilized. On my car, it will jump up to 0.03-0.04 bar and drop immediately to the preset number.
12) If the boost stabilizes too high, turn the offset the next higher number and do runs until this stabilizes around the preset number. If the boost stabilizes too low, turn the offset to the next lower number and do runs until this stabilizes around the preset number.
13) I NOW HAVE A BOOST CONTROLLER THAT WORKS, hopefully, if I have done everything correctly. If still not working, I would recheck the installation again.
http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/evcI...ogramming.html
I would definitely reset the controller and let it go through learning mode again. If it was set up on another car or just set up wrong to begin with then that could be why you are getting eratic boost. I don't know exactly how it works, but its got some kind of fuzzy logic system and from what I've heard it really needs to know the boost curve of your turbo and wastegate setup in order to work correctly.
I'm sure there are a couple of other things that could be causing the problem, but this is a good place to start.
Here is the how to from a Z owner that I found very helpful.
Disclaimer: This method worked for me and two other owners of Z's. Your car may or may not work with this method. Please be careful when making the learning mode runs. The author assumes no responsibility for whatever happens when following these instructions.
1) Who installed the EVC? I made sure that the solenoids were bypassed. Otherwise, my actuator will get confused because the EVC is sending info, which is correct, but the ECU is also sending boost info too, which will confuse the actuator. I remembered that stock boost with actuator only is approximately 6 psi. The 9.5 psi in a stock Z is gotten by the solenoids controlled by the ECU adding 3.5 psi.
2) I find that making the run on a straight road is crucial. I was careful doing this run. Watching out for other cars, people, animals, etc. I made sure it was safe first. It was best to have someone in the car with me to keep an eye on things. I made sure I had enough room to go 100 MPH and enough to brake and stop.
3) I made sure I cleared the memory by Mod-Alt-SBC when the unit was off. Now I turnned on the unit and pressed Alt-SBC. I should see an "L". I made my run now. I don't boost until 3rd gear. I would run from 2500-7200 RPM in 3rd gear. I heard a beep at about 3500-4000 RPM but I DO NOT STOP until 7200 RPM (JWT chip redline). I pulled over to side of the road. I now saw an "H". I did the same exact thing again. No boost until 3rd gear and run same RPM range. The EVC beeped when I let off the gas at 7200 RPM.
4) Now if I have done everything correctly, the unit will show me the stock boost pressure, about 0.40-0.50 bar (kg/cm2). Then it will switch in about a few seconds to the manifold pressure (vacuum in mmHg).
5) I am now ready to set my numbers. I would be conservative unless I had cold weather, good gas octane, or aftermarket intercoolers, 555cc injectors, and bigger turbos. Remember 1 kg/cm2 = 14.22 psi. So I set my #'s accordingly. The EVC has dual settings for a low boost and a high boost. I read the manual for setting those levels. I set the high first, then set the low. I remember that the low cannot exceed the high and that SBC in low will only work if it is equal to or lower than the high setting.
6) After my high boost setting, say 0.95 kg/cm2 for 13.5 psi, hit Mod button and that puts me in the offset display. Offset is very crucial because each car's turbos are setup differently. On the Z, I find that the length of the hoses to the turbos have an effect. Typically on the Z, the offset which worked was 118-120.
7) I hit Mod after setting the offset and that puts me in SBC display. Some people leave that at 0.00, which means no scramble boost. I used my judgment when setting this. Remember a blown engine is no fun and pretty expensive. The next display after pushing Mod is the seconds of scramble. If no scramble, leave that to 0.
8) After the seconds, the next display after pushing Mod is the warning boost level. I set this with caution. Be conservative. When boost exceeds this level, a warning beep sounds, display turns red, and the EVC turns off, so back to stock boost.
9) Now I am all setup. So I did the same with the low boost sequence.
10) Now I am ready for test runs. But first I lock the Auto Adjust because otherwise my offset will change. But I don't want that, do I? NO WAY. Ok, so I do that by turning the EVC off. I made sure my car was either running or the key was in the acc position. Press Mod and at same time toggle the back switch from SW to PO. Let go of the Mod button and push the toggle back to SW. I am now locked.
11) I boosted in 3rd gear and had someone in the car looking at my EVC display. I kept full boost, ie pedal to floor, until it stabilized. On my car, it will jump up to 0.03-0.04 bar and drop immediately to the preset number.
12) If the boost stabilizes too high, turn the offset the next higher number and do runs until this stabilizes around the preset number. If the boost stabilizes too low, turn the offset to the next lower number and do runs until this stabilizes around the preset number.
13) I NOW HAVE A BOOST CONTROLLER THAT WORKS, hopefully, if I have done everything correctly. If still not working, I would recheck the installation again.
http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/evcI...ogramming.html
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03-31-10, 08:21 AM
#8
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Thanks for that .. I printed off the exact same page last night!! I tired playing with offsets last night with no joy.. I will go for a full reset and start again. failing that I have another solenoid I can now try!
Cheers
Lee
Cheers
Lee
04-07-10, 02:50 PM
#9
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Still no joy on ths guys!
I have tried a different solenoid and get the same result. I did the self learn the other day myself and the 'L' portion seemed to go fine.. then when I did the 'H' portion the boost spikes up mid range and then about 1500rpm before redline line it spike up again big time! Like 20psi! Needless to say I lifted of quickly at that point.
Any ideas what this could be? The pipes are connected as per the diagram.
Something is certainly not right!
Cheers
Lee
I have tried a different solenoid and get the same result. I did the self learn the other day myself and the 'L' portion seemed to go fine.. then when I did the 'H' portion the boost spikes up mid range and then about 1500rpm before redline line it spike up again big time! Like 20psi! Needless to say I lifted of quickly at that point.
Any ideas what this could be? The pipes are connected as per the diagram.
Something is certainly not right!
Cheers
Lee
04-23-10, 01:59 PM
#10
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Did you get anywhere with this?
I have the same unit (different car!), set it up manually, and last year it was working perfectly for a few months. Then it started doing something like you're describing.
On high boost quite a slow oscillation, and on low boost quite fast. Low boost is well within stock boost values, which probably rules out the ECU affecting things.
I happened to be datalogging when it happened, so I have a graph, if you like that sort of thing.
At high boost, the pressure was peaking at the correct pressure (~1kg) then immediately dropping to around 0.8 for around 1/2 second, before peaking again. Stock boost was 0.5, so it was still trying. On low boost (~0.7) it was just continuously oscillating.
That was reading pressure from the ECU directly, so maybe the EVC is reading wrong?
The only thing I can think to try on mine is cleaning the filters in the pipes(can't imagine that would suddenly stop it working), fiddling with the offset mode (doubt it's that), and turning off the 'auto adjust' mode, but there seems to be no way of knowing if this is on or off - it seems to either beep 2 or 3 times when you change the setting (unit off/hold MOD/switch SW<>PO).
Other than that I might just assume that it has become faulty. It does still buzz the valve on power-up though, so nothing obvious wrong.
I'm about to drive the car for the first time since I had the problem tomorrow, and just found this thread. I'm hoping it's cured itself over the winter...
If I make any progress with it, I'll let you know.
It's a shame, because when it was working, it just worked fine.
I have the same unit (different car!), set it up manually, and last year it was working perfectly for a few months. Then it started doing something like you're describing.
On high boost quite a slow oscillation, and on low boost quite fast. Low boost is well within stock boost values, which probably rules out the ECU affecting things.
I happened to be datalogging when it happened, so I have a graph, if you like that sort of thing.
At high boost, the pressure was peaking at the correct pressure (~1kg) then immediately dropping to around 0.8 for around 1/2 second, before peaking again. Stock boost was 0.5, so it was still trying. On low boost (~0.7) it was just continuously oscillating.That was reading pressure from the ECU directly, so maybe the EVC is reading wrong?
The only thing I can think to try on mine is cleaning the filters in the pipes(can't imagine that would suddenly stop it working), fiddling with the offset mode (doubt it's that), and turning off the 'auto adjust' mode, but there seems to be no way of knowing if this is on or off - it seems to either beep 2 or 3 times when you change the setting (unit off/hold MOD/switch SW<>PO).
Other than that I might just assume that it has become faulty. It does still buzz the valve on power-up though, so nothing obvious wrong.
I'm about to drive the car for the first time since I had the problem tomorrow, and just found this thread. I'm hoping it's cured itself over the winter...
If I make any progress with it, I'll let you know.It's a shame, because when it was working, it just worked fine.
04-23-10, 03:09 PM
#11
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Hi There, I had no luck with it. I tried anther solenoid and no joy? Mine was overboosting thne dropping back rather than the way around you are describing. Let me know if you get anywhere though. I have turned mine of for now and just running on gate pressure. I am thinking of replacing it with a manual Dawes device type controller. I have actually designed my own one to rule out some of the second rate parts that are out there!
Cheers
Lee
Cheers
Lee
