Help me revise my single setup and suggest fueling (500rwhp)
08-29-12, 10:29 PM
#1
Help me revise my single setup and suggest fueling (500rwhp)
Recently my car got destroyed by a brutal hail storm, so i'm ordering some body parts from a place, and since I was planning on going single over the winter, I might as well just order everything at once since it will all be coming from the same place. That being said, I want to order this friday (Aug 31.) And so I figure I should get someone with some experience to go over my subjected set up before I go dropping wads of money.
It will begin with a freshly rebuilt, large street ported REW with ALS apex seals and a few other engine mods but lets focus primarily on the turbo and fueling part for now.
Turbo: Garrett T04Z, 1.0 a/r (part of a vendors pre-assembled kits) pushing ~22 psi.
Wastegate: either the TiAL MV-R or the V60 (44mm vs. 60mm. The kit normally comes with a synapse 50mm but I prefer TiAL to Synapse.) Would the V60 be overkill?
BOV: TiAL Q
Ignition: HKS twin power
EMS: Power FC
Fuel: "Ultimate" fuel system, (primary and secondary rails replaced, 1200cc primaries, 1680cc secondaries)
And before I get it tuned, I want to get a nice water meth kit, either (aquamist or something equivalent that can be easily tuned)
Boost control: AEM tru-boost
cooling: large core v-mount and dual oil coolers
First question, with proper tuning, will this setup get me to my goal of 500 rwhp? (Will be using 94 octane fuel.) My research shows yes but some confirmation is always nice.
And secondly, I'm not sure how to go with fueling as far as pumps go. I want to run a sump - I currently have the RP Competition fuel pump which I would use as a lift pump, but then after that i'm sort of stumped. I was thinking about a single inline pump to keep it simple, and that brought me to the aeromotive A1000 but it seems a little over kill. I have been recomended the bosch 044 but I'm not sure it will provide sufficient fuel / pressure and I would like as much as possible to keep it at 1 inline pump.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that I would like -6an braided lines throughout the entire system. From the lift pump to the sump, from the sump to the rails, from the fpr back to the sump, and from the sump back to the tank. Can any fuel pump be made to use -an fittings?
If you need more specifics on the setup just ask but I think most of what needed is covered. Thanks.
It will begin with a freshly rebuilt, large street ported REW with ALS apex seals and a few other engine mods but lets focus primarily on the turbo and fueling part for now.
Turbo: Garrett T04Z, 1.0 a/r (part of a vendors pre-assembled kits) pushing ~22 psi.
Wastegate: either the TiAL MV-R or the V60 (44mm vs. 60mm. The kit normally comes with a synapse 50mm but I prefer TiAL to Synapse.) Would the V60 be overkill?
BOV: TiAL Q
Ignition: HKS twin power
EMS: Power FC
Fuel: "Ultimate" fuel system, (primary and secondary rails replaced, 1200cc primaries, 1680cc secondaries)
And before I get it tuned, I want to get a nice water meth kit, either (aquamist or something equivalent that can be easily tuned)
Boost control: AEM tru-boost
cooling: large core v-mount and dual oil coolers
First question, with proper tuning, will this setup get me to my goal of 500 rwhp? (Will be using 94 octane fuel.) My research shows yes but some confirmation is always nice.
And secondly, I'm not sure how to go with fueling as far as pumps go. I want to run a sump - I currently have the RP Competition fuel pump which I would use as a lift pump, but then after that i'm sort of stumped. I was thinking about a single inline pump to keep it simple, and that brought me to the aeromotive A1000 but it seems a little over kill. I have been recomended the bosch 044 but I'm not sure it will provide sufficient fuel / pressure and I would like as much as possible to keep it at 1 inline pump.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that I would like -6an braided lines throughout the entire system. From the lift pump to the sump, from the sump to the rails, from the fpr back to the sump, and from the sump back to the tank. Can any fuel pump be made to use -an fittings?
If you need more specifics on the setup just ask but I think most of what needed is covered. Thanks.
Last edited by Mitchocalypse; 08-29-12 at 10:32 PM.
08-30-12, 05:19 PM
#2
As far as power I believe that you are going to meet your goal. I am using a turbo that has slightly less flow than the T04Z, the GT4088. I surpass 500 RWHP at 19PSI and make over 540 RWHP at 22psi. This is on E85 but you should get there even with a little more conservative tuning. If E85 is available in your area I highly recommend it. Unbelievable stuff.
I do not now much about running a fuel sump but I am running a surge tank. It was crazy how dangerous fuel delivery is when the fuel tank gets below half a tank. I am using the Integrated Engineering Dual Bosch 044 submerged surge tank. Very easy to set up and a very trick unit. They make a unit for a single Bosch 044 which meets all of you connection requirements and should be up to the task for 500 RWHP if you are going to use standard fuel.
I do not now much about running a fuel sump but I am running a surge tank. It was crazy how dangerous fuel delivery is when the fuel tank gets below half a tank. I am using the Integrated Engineering Dual Bosch 044 submerged surge tank. Very easy to set up and a very trick unit. They make a unit for a single Bosch 044 which meets all of you connection requirements and should be up to the task for 500 RWHP if you are going to use standard fuel.
08-30-12, 07:25 PM
#3
F'n Newbie...
iTrader: (6)
You should def be able to hit 500whp with that turbo.
The only suggestions I'd make is to change injectors (where did you find 1200cc injectors??? Get ID1000's and ID2000's) and to steer clear of the PFC for that power level.
You can def get to 500whp with a PFC, but you can get there with it being MUCH smoother with an ECU that's more up to date (Motec, Haltech, Link, etc).
And the Bosch 044 should def work for what you need.
I got my PT6265 to 470whp at 19psi running 850/1600 EV14 injectors with a Bosch 044 in-tank. That was pushing my IDC up to about 85% at points in the map though.
The only suggestions I'd make is to change injectors (where did you find 1200cc injectors??? Get ID1000's and ID2000's) and to steer clear of the PFC for that power level.
You can def get to 500whp with a PFC, but you can get there with it being MUCH smoother with an ECU that's more up to date (Motec, Haltech, Link, etc).
And the Bosch 044 should def work for what you need.
I got my PT6265 to 470whp at 19psi running 850/1600 EV14 injectors with a Bosch 044 in-tank. That was pushing my IDC up to about 85% at points in the map though.
08-30-12, 08:07 PM
#4
08-30-12, 08:08 PM
#5
You should def be able to hit 500whp with that turbo.
The only suggestions I'd make is to change injectors (where did you find 1200cc injectors??? Get ID1000's and ID2000's) and to steer clear of the PFC for that power level.
You can def get to 500whp with a PFC, but you can get there with it being MUCH smoother with an ECU that's more up to date (Motec, Haltech, Link, etc).
And the Bosch 044 should def work for what you need.
I got my PT6265 to 470whp at 19psi running 850/1600 EV14 injectors with a Bosch 044 in-tank. That was pushing my IDC up to about 85% at points in the map though.
The only suggestions I'd make is to change injectors (where did you find 1200cc injectors??? Get ID1000's and ID2000's) and to steer clear of the PFC for that power level.
You can def get to 500whp with a PFC, but you can get there with it being MUCH smoother with an ECU that's more up to date (Motec, Haltech, Link, etc).
And the Bosch 044 should def work for what you need.
I got my PT6265 to 470whp at 19psi running 850/1600 EV14 injectors with a Bosch 044 in-tank. That was pushing my IDC up to about 85% at points in the map though.
Do you mean a single 044 would work, or 2?
And which wastegate would be more ideal? the 44mm or the 60mm? (I completely understand how a wastegate works, but what I don't understand is picking an optimal sized wastegate for a setup.)
I will look into changing the injectors though.
10-09-12, 12:02 AM
#7
I know you asked for input on multiple items, but I figured I would at least share some links related to your fuel pump and injector decision.
Check out Max Cooper's site to calculate fuel pump requirements based on your injector selection.
Based on the numbers you provided, your fuel injectors will handle up to 558 RWHP. Fuel pump will need to be capable of 265 l/hr or 420 lbs/hr.
I have heard people say to stick with 550 cc primaries in order to retain good idle and drivability at slower speeds. No personal experience here, just what I have read.
You can also check out this article I found on the web about how to properly size fuel system components. There are a few other sites out there that have injector sizing and fuel system calculators too.
RC Engineering
Fuel Pump Upgrade Guide
THE Fuel Pumps Thread
Check out Max Cooper's site to calculate fuel pump requirements based on your injector selection.
Based on the numbers you provided, your fuel injectors will handle up to 558 RWHP. Fuel pump will need to be capable of 265 l/hr or 420 lbs/hr.
I have heard people say to stick with 550 cc primaries in order to retain good idle and drivability at slower speeds. No personal experience here, just what I have read.
You can also check out this article I found on the web about how to properly size fuel system components. There are a few other sites out there that have injector sizing and fuel system calculators too.
RC Engineering
Fuel Pump Upgrade Guide
THE Fuel Pumps Thread
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10-09-12, 09:06 PM
#8
The only suggestions I'd make is to change injectors (where did you find 1200cc injectors??? Get ID1000's and ID2000's) and to steer clear of the PFC for that power level.
You can def get to 500whp with a PFC, but you can get there with it being MUCH smoother with an ECU that's more up to date (Motec, Haltech, Link, etc).
You can def get to 500whp with a PFC, but you can get there with it being MUCH smoother with an ECU that's more up to date (Motec, Haltech, Link, etc).
Tuning is all i do 7 days a week from spring to fall on all the ECU's and I have no idea what your talking about.
thewird
10-27-12, 04:27 PM
#9
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If you could explain this, that would be appreciated. A properly tuned powerfc tune will be identical to any of the other properly tuned ECU so I have no idea where your thought process is coming from.
Tuning is all i do 7 days a week from spring to fall on all the ECU's and I have no idea what your talking about.
thewird
Tuning is all i do 7 days a week from spring to fall on all the ECU's and I have no idea what your talking about.
thewird
11-09-12, 04:47 PM
#12
Since I noticed this thread has been bumped, I figure I should throw out an update as well.
I went with FFE rails, and EV14 1000 pri. and 2000 sec. I haven't purchased it yet but I am pretty set on the twin 044 surge tank that was posted above. I'd use my current RP pump as a lift pump from the fuel tank. I'm going to run -6an feed and return lines and the rails will be plumbed parallel vs. in series. (Ie, line Y's, separate line feeds each rail, then they Y back and hit the FPR.
Also, i got the 44mm w/g.
Thanks for the help guys!
Last edited by Mitchocalypse; 11-09-12 at 04:53 PM.
11-09-12, 08:50 PM
#13
F'n Newbie...
iTrader: (6)
If you haven't already purchased your fuel lines and such than I'd suggest potentially running -8 from the tank/pump until where you Y the lines off for the rails.
I'll be doing the same thing as you (FFE rails, ID1000/2000's, rails fed in parallel, etc., etc) except that I'll be running -8 up through a nice fuel filter (replaceable filter elements) then Y into two -6 lines to feed the rails. I'll have each rail running an independent -6 return line to the FPR, then back to the tank.
I'll be doing the same thing as you (FFE rails, ID1000/2000's, rails fed in parallel, etc., etc) except that I'll be running -8 up through a nice fuel filter (replaceable filter elements) then Y into two -6 lines to feed the rails. I'll have each rail running an independent -6 return line to the FPR, then back to the tank.
11-09-12, 11:38 PM
#14
If you haven't already purchased your fuel lines and such than I'd suggest potentially running -8 from the tank/pump until where you Y the lines off for the rails.
I'll be doing the same thing as you (FFE rails, ID1000/2000's, rails fed in parallel, etc., etc) except that I'll be running -8 up through a nice fuel filter (replaceable filter elements) then Y into two -6 lines to feed the rails. I'll have each rail running an independent -6 return line to the FPR, then back to the tank.
I'll be doing the same thing as you (FFE rails, ID1000/2000's, rails fed in parallel, etc., etc) except that I'll be running -8 up through a nice fuel filter (replaceable filter elements) then Y into two -6 lines to feed the rails. I'll have each rail running an independent -6 return line to the FPR, then back to the tank.
From what i've read though, even -6 is overkill.
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