THE Fuel Pumps Thread!
12-12-07, 12:43 PM
#1
THE Fuel Pumps Thread!
It seems so much of this info is scattered all throughout the forum's various threads, so I was hoping we can get in this single thread (and who knows, maybe future sticky) the major important points re: fuel pumps. All facts, NO commentary/opinions/random questions.
1) Flow comparison of all GOOD available fuel pumps. My list would be Walbro, Denso (aka Supra TT), Bosch, Rotary Performance, and Apexi R33 GTR fuel pumps. If we can list some hard #s of different flow rates at different pressures, TitaniumTT would be happy to graph them to provide a quick visual for quick future reference. That way, one could quickly be able to tell what fuel pump would be adequate for their setup.
2) Everyone should know that fuel pump rewiring improves fuel pressure. There is more than one way to rewire it and increase the voltage. A few are outlined here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/more-proof-fuel-pump-rewire-improves-fuel-pressure-565645/
3) Dual Fuel Pump Setups. LOTS of questions about this. This is a great thread w/ pics and a link to a discussion: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/dual-tank-fuel-pumps-post-how-you-setup-397602/, and rfreeman27 outlined his setup w/ important points here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/making-dual-fuel-pumps-work-530144/.
- There was a post somewhere about "T" fitting vs. "Y" fitting so the two fuel pumps weren't working against each other, but I can't find it for the life of me.
- Also, there's a post about correctly wiring up dual pumps, each w/ their own power supply or a fuel pump relay, and setting them up so that if one fails, both fail (to prevent running lean and detonating). Can't find that post either
I do remember, however, that you should run 'em in parallel.
That's all I got off the top of my head. I'd like to see if we can add some pertinant points/links (or even better summaries) to eventually get one single post we can sticky for quick future reference
~Ramy
1) Flow comparison of all GOOD available fuel pumps. My list would be Walbro, Denso (aka Supra TT), Bosch, Rotary Performance, and Apexi R33 GTR fuel pumps. If we can list some hard #s of different flow rates at different pressures, TitaniumTT would be happy to graph them to provide a quick visual for quick future reference. That way, one could quickly be able to tell what fuel pump would be adequate for their setup.
2) Everyone should know that fuel pump rewiring improves fuel pressure. There is more than one way to rewire it and increase the voltage. A few are outlined here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/more-proof-fuel-pump-rewire-improves-fuel-pressure-565645/
3) Dual Fuel Pump Setups. LOTS of questions about this. This is a great thread w/ pics and a link to a discussion: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/dual-tank-fuel-pumps-post-how-you-setup-397602/, and rfreeman27 outlined his setup w/ important points here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/making-dual-fuel-pumps-work-530144/.
- There was a post somewhere about "T" fitting vs. "Y" fitting so the two fuel pumps weren't working against each other, but I can't find it for the life of me.
- Also, there's a post about correctly wiring up dual pumps, each w/ their own power supply or a fuel pump relay, and setting them up so that if one fails, both fail (to prevent running lean and detonating). Can't find that post either
I do remember, however, that you should run 'em in parallel.That's all I got off the top of my head. I'd like to see if we can add some pertinant points/links (or even better summaries) to eventually get one single post we can sticky for quick future reference
~Ramy
12-13-07, 07:10 PM
#2
The king of the highway!
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Ive used the Supra TT fuel pump but it didn't flow enough for the power i was making so i went big and bought the Aeromotive 1000 external pump. Love it and wouldn't trade it for any other pump!
12-13-07, 07:59 PM
#4
Nobody that interested, Ramy. Whenever you are putting down more than say 400 rwhp, you need to be sure you have fuel and fuel pressure. I always am puzzled when I hear how little people do here.
When I did my first single turbo, I installed dual fuel pumps in a Y configuration running both pumps in parallel. You mentioned a thread where someomne was running dual but bloth shut down if one went. That's not a very good idea and defeats the purpose. You run 2 good 275+lph punps in parallel directly wired to the battery. When one goes, the other shoulders on and you don't crap out. As long as you have one running, you shouldn't have any problems under hard driving. I wired a warning light if one failed. You can't be safe enough where fuel is concerned.
Gordon
When I did my first single turbo, I installed dual fuel pumps in a Y configuration running both pumps in parallel. You mentioned a thread where someomne was running dual but bloth shut down if one went. That's not a very good idea and defeats the purpose. You run 2 good 275+lph punps in parallel directly wired to the battery. When one goes, the other shoulders on and you don't crap out. As long as you have one running, you shouldn't have any problems under hard driving. I wired a warning light if one failed. You can't be safe enough where fuel is concerned.
Gordon
And I feel you about the warning light; that's a good idea, because the setups I read about actually depended on both fuel pumps under load, so if one crapped out, you wouldn't know until it's too late.
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12-14-07, 09:22 AM
#8
Rotary Enthusiast
this should be useful.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm
12-14-07, 10:51 AM
#9
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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A thread that I started a while ago in the archives......
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-archives-73/some-fuel-system-ramblings-578521/
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-archives-73/some-fuel-system-ramblings-578521/
12-14-07, 12:18 PM
#11
Bosch 044
This is the popular Bosch Motorsports "044" fuel pump, as used by Japanese European & Australian tuner shops, JGTC cars, Touring cars, almost all WRC cars, and many more. Quite possibly, the most popular aftermarket fuel pump. Capable of providing 300 LPH free flow and 200 LPH at 5 bar (or 72.5 psi) for up to 685 BHP. In comparison, the Walbro GSS341 255 "high pressure" fuel pump can support 390 BHP Note: Values calculated at 12V, 3 bar (43.5 psi) base fuel pressure, 2 bar (29 psi) boost pressure, 1:1 fuel pressure regulator ratio. These are inline fuel pumps, we recommend they be installed between the factory (or another aftermarket) in-tank fuel pump, and the fuel rail. These may be installed in the fuel tank, but some custom fabrication will usually be required. In addition, feeding these inline pumps with another pump (in series), will boost the output of the Bosch 044 fuel pump even higher.
12-14-07, 02:18 PM
#13
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Here's one that you don't ever see either. There's a great deal of talk about the Bosch 044 run inline, but if you search here you don't find much on the Bosch 040.
Specs:
Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Specs:
Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 040
Minimum Current: 12 Volts
Operating Pressure: 94 PSI (6.5 Bar)
Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)
Fuel Pump Location: In Tank
High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)
Weight: 930 Grams (2.05 Pounds)
Fuel Pump Connections:
Inlet: Open Base
Outlet: M10 x 1.0
Electrical: Positive M6 / Negative M5
compared to the 044 specs:
Bosch 044 Fuel Pump Specs:
Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 044
Minimum Current: 12 Volts
Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)
Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)
Fuel Pump Location: In-Line
High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)
Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)
Fuel Pump Connections:
Inlet: M18 x 1.5
Outlet: M12 x 1.5
Electrical: Positive M6 / Negative M5
The 040 is offered in an inline as well as an in tank setup. Does anyone have experience with these pumps? Seems like it would be a good alternative to the Walbro as it flows more but is only $50-60 more depending on where you buy it. Thoughts?
Specs:
Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Specs:
Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 040
Minimum Current: 12 Volts
Operating Pressure: 94 PSI (6.5 Bar)
Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)
Fuel Pump Location: In Tank
High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)
Weight: 930 Grams (2.05 Pounds)
Fuel Pump Connections:
Inlet: Open Base
Outlet: M10 x 1.0
Electrical: Positive M6 / Negative M5
compared to the 044 specs:
Bosch 044 Fuel Pump Specs:
Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 044
Minimum Current: 12 Volts
Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)
Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)
Fuel Pump Location: In-Line
High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)
Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)
Fuel Pump Connections:
Inlet: M18 x 1.5
Outlet: M12 x 1.5
Electrical: Positive M6 / Negative M5
The 040 is offered in an inline as well as an in tank setup. Does anyone have experience with these pumps? Seems like it would be a good alternative to the Walbro as it flows more but is only $50-60 more depending on where you buy it. Thoughts?
12-14-07, 02:36 PM
#14
The king of the highway!
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its not the aeromotive but you get the picture. BAck then the pumps with the whole setup were around $1000 bucks you can get the whole system for $500 for a pump that is good for 700-800hp, and you can use the in-pump in the tank so that you can still have good mpg.
Ill take pictures of my setup so you can see, The way we did it its hidden between the pump and the license plate, but all you can see when you look at the back of the car is the 8an lines
The only pump youll ever need! no more swaping more pumps cause you get more power!
12-14-07, 03:58 PM
#15
http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?m...&products_id=2
its not the aeromotive but you get the picture. BAck then the pumps with the whole setup were around $1000 bucks you can get the whole system for $500 for a pump that is good for 700-800hp, and you can use the in-pump in the tank so that you can still have good mpg.
Ill take pictures of my setup so you can see, The way we did it its hidden between the pump and the license plate, but all you can see when you look at the back of the car is the 8an lines
The only pump youll ever need! no more swaping more pumps cause you get more power!
its not the aeromotive but you get the picture. BAck then the pumps with the whole setup were around $1000 bucks you can get the whole system for $500 for a pump that is good for 700-800hp, and you can use the in-pump in the tank so that you can still have good mpg.
Ill take pictures of my setup so you can see, The way we did it its hidden between the pump and the license plate, but all you can see when you look at the back of the car is the 8an lines
The only pump youll ever need! no more swaping more pumps cause you get more power!
Where can you get the whole system for $500 btw?
Thanks,
~Ramy
12-14-07, 07:21 PM
#17
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no i have my intake pump setup for normal driving, and on WOT my external pump comes on. Which is why when you drive my car you dont hear the external pump on unless after i do a WOT run! Figured since i still have the intake pump that i might as well use it!
That setup in the pic is the external pump i have!
12-14-07, 10:48 PM
#18
I have not found a single fuel pump that flows enough for 700-800hp.
I think he might be talking about his a1000.
12-15-07, 11:45 AM
#19
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/\ yeah the a1000 is the bad *** pump that i have, and i still use my pump intake the aeromotive comes on when im on WOOOT
and you cant even see the pump unless you go under the car, all you see hanging is the 8an lines. ill open the car later to take pics of the intake walboro pump!
and you cant even see the pump unless you go under the car, all you see hanging is the 8an lines. ill open the car later to take pics of the intake walboro pump!
02-03-08, 05:23 PM
#20
I haven't run the car with the pumps installed yet, but I am certainly happy with how the setup turned out. I have no doubts that it will perform to my expectations.
My only criticism: I would have preferred a "Y" fitting instead of a "T" fitting for obvious reasons, but this certainly isn't the only 90 deg bend in the system and I don't think it will negatively impact the flow enough for me to notice. Ihor will have to comment on the specifics of how he wired everything up.
I am only looking to make 400-450whp on my new setup, but I wanted some room to upgrade.
BTW, I'm running 850/1600 injectors with a KGparts secondary rail.Here are the pics:
02-09-08, 10:42 PM
#23
Did you read the very FIRST post in this thread?
2) Everyone should know that fuel pump rewiring improves fuel pressure. There is more than one way to rewire it and increase the voltage. A few are outlined here: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=565645
